+30% d'acquisition avec UN seul changement sur ton site : Dan de Sportigo dévoile sa méthode !

Today we are meeting someone who is not a club manager but who directly influences the profitability of hundreds of clubs. Dan is behind Sportigo, a tool that is not just used to manage but to make perform. 1000 clubs in ten countries and his product he has literally built to welcome a gym. But Dan, it's also 25 years of combat sport.

And for him, managing a business is exactly like getting on a ring. You have a problem in front of you and you have the interest to find the simplest solution as soon as possible. Otherwise, it hurts. Today, we're going to talk about Sportigo. Don will give us what works well in clubs and the mindset that makes the difference when everything seems complex. Let's go, we launch this new episode in the head of a fitness club manager. Sportigo

So let's go, hello Fab, how are you? Hi Seb, yeah I'm fine, thank you. Hi Dan. Hello to you two. Yeah, how are you? You too? I'm fine, great. Welcome to this new episode, we're happy to have you here today. Thanks for the invitation. It's going to be a nice exercise in any case. So Dan who... He's used to doing podcasts. Yeah, it's not bad already. Usually it's a big word, but it happens. It's clear, we put pressure on him right away.

Dan represents Sportigo, a sports club. As usual, we'll start with a first big game because we like to learn from our guests.

Dan, can you introduce yourself please? Ok, so I'm Dan Amara, CEO of Sportigo. So if I briefly go back to what I was able to do before Sportigo, I have a developer profile, an engineer in development. I have already set up a structure, a box in the online poker game. It's a bit of a funny thing we did with the association that I play with Sportigo. Winamax.

A little less, but in my mind. And then I evolved in market finance mainly and in a few startups before joining Sportigo. And I've been a fan of sports for years. I practiced a lot. And so at Sportigo, I find the pro and personal balance during this adventure. So you were telling us when the podcast started, you're a sports practitioner. So you've done a lot of combat sports, trail sports.

You had triathlon, I think. You had triathlon too. And now you're a little injured. I want to move a little on my chair because I have a little back pain, but that's it. Yeah, but at the same time, I often say that it's better to have back pain, knee pain, elbow pain, shoulder pain, than to let the diseases arrive because we don't do sports. And when you see a grandpa who does a marathon at 80 years old and who has knee pain, etc. But you say, but in fact, look at the health he has. It's capital. Yeah. Clearly.

And so, professional level, you started talking about it a little bit. I would like us to go a little further because I put engineer, market finance, Agicap, Trezor. You worked for Agicap? Yes. It's not the classic way to fitness. So, can you tell us about all this? And after, I'm forced to focus on your poker story because it looks incredible. And just a parenthesis, startup, it was what? Investors or it was... In startups. In startups. Yes, directly. Okay.

I'll put the poker side, we'll focus on it because it's a hell of an adventure. I started or worked as an engineer, developer in companies, rather startups. I worked in companies where we had a 10 square meter office, we were four. You went back to go to the printer, you hit the neighbor's seat. It was really working in a four-person kitchen. Until companies where we were a little bigger. And then I started in market finance a little at random.

I ended up in a company where I entered as a technical manager of customer relations and I discovered this ecosystem in which I stayed for about 10 years. So I worked in market rooms in a structure where I took care of the part of trading architecture. So you have to imagine that it is an environment where, between the moment when a company decides to do something on a financial market,

And my role was to make sure that whatever they wanted to do, I could do it. And that through the algorithm, through the complexity in terms of performance. You measure your cable so that the Internet finally goes into a cable. The shorter the cable, the faster it goes. And so we had all this cutscene. We had to try to gain a millisecond, a microsecond to get to the financial markets as quickly as possible. It's the famous trading outfrequency. That's it. It's a bit of the idea. And so I did that for a little ten years.

where I've evolved from different positions in this ecosystem. And it's an ecosystem beyond pure finance, in which we encounter many problems, many small cinematics, and the slightest little stone in the shoe has a colossal impact. And so you have to be reactive, you have very little right to error.

And that was quite exciting. It must have been quite an important financial volume. It was billions of euros that could be spent every day on what we had in our hands. And so we had a technological asset, a trading platform that had to be really set to the millimeter.

and yet it must constantly evolve and so it gives you a very strong rigour and it's an ecosystem where your competitors have 10, 20, 100 times more money than you and so you have to be very clever to at the slightest cost find solutions to be able to be competitive face to face. So you did your engineering course, I just have a question about that, when you do an engineering course, how did you... did you happen to fall into the development of code or...

So, for the story, I wasn't very good at school, so I was lost in a management class, I did accounting and management, which didn't interest me at all. You did like us, like you did. That's right, I did accounting and management. We weren't very good. You were better than me, but I hung on.

It wasn't terrible. I have a teacher who taught me two or three formulas on Excel. It was easy for me. He told me to do computer science. So I started doing computer science. It happened exactly like that. Are you one of those people when you put an Excel table or a sheet where you can spend four hours without seeing the time pass? I love myself. I discovered this passion at that time and I went towards computer science like that. 2-0 because I didn't know this environment at all.

Okay, when you talk about trading, I thought of Wall Street's Loot. I saw the Loot's scenes, they were exceptional. It was way less nice than that. It was way more down to earth. But yeah, I think it could be funny. But it wasn't the case, unfortunately. It wasn't the American one. But at the same time, the movie didn't end well. It didn't end terribly, indeed.

So you did market finance for 10 years, then AGICAP, Trezor. AGICAP is a treasury management company.

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For example, when Conto was launched, they didn't develop a bank, they used the Trezor bank and they made the client interface. So if you had Conto at the time, you had Trezor. If you had a Swile card from Ticket Restaurant, you had Trezor, etc. And all the great FinTech actors in France and now in Europe use Trezor or a Trezor-type company. But in fact, it must give you a little bit of...

context to negotiate them also on the part of the fee and all and all I think that suddenly in fact it is in fact it is a part of your field you know what in fact we

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So the red thread of all this is the development and your passion for sport.

Who made Sportigo? Sportigo, the way it started, I have a friend, Laurent, who was in a gym in 2015 and who saw his coach with his hair down with the software he was using. It was complicated, he couldn't do it. What software was it? I can't tell you which one it was. Who was it? I don't know, it was in another life, it was in 2015. But it was probably a software that was still in the market.

And in fact, when I was talking to him, he realized that as a payment expert, because at that time, Laurent was the director of a development team in a big payment company in Paris. He said, yeah, OK, I can do it. It doesn't seem complicated to me. And so he courageously left his job and came to the reception of the gym. And he develops the software by working at the reception.

So he will evolve in a certain environment. We are in combat sports at this time. But gradually, he will know different structures. And he went back to the room in which we trained together, because he is a childhood friend. When we were 18 years old, he went to see how he was working. He started to install the software, to help him to work on it. And he did that for about three years. And gradually, Sportivo began to deploy. A software that was made for one person began to deploy in other structures. And the structure is built like that.

And I joined him two years ago. Laurent, right? Laurent. And who is Laurent to you? Laurent is my best friend. We met, we had...

14 years old I think, something like that. We started the poker company together. And so, he's someone I used to hang out with, I used to see Sportigo grow. I had other experiences, he had this experience. And we joined. So, you made the transition on this poker project. So, what was the idea? Basically, it's... So, I have a very bad poker experience, online, but I like it. And we're in a time where...

Typically, we played quite a lot. 2012, it started to bloom quite a lot. And I said to myself, I know how to develop, it would be nice if I had a tool that tells me when I have to play and when I have to not play.

And I find a way to do it, because we analyze what is possible to do and we find a way to do it. So I develop a product like that with Laurent. And the idea is that it will analyze everything that happens on your tables, memorize everything, so a great computer basically. And every time you come across, for example, Fabien, you will have an impossible pseudonym, so I would never have remembered that I was going to play against you. It means that if you have already played against him, you will have all the ways I want to play against him. I know how he plays, I will advise you. And it advises you in real time, depending on what you were doing.

And with your hands too? With your hands, yes. And you had stats and all? I had stats and I could choose. Either I had something very mathematical with complex stats, or I had a sentence. Because we said, people come here to have fun, they want to play a color code. Red, green, you go, you don't go. And in fact, we started...

We started this, it's not even a company, we didn't really have a culture of creating companies, so we launched this software, we started selling it, and then the thing didn't work too badly. We were out of the market by casinos who wanted their own software. We started to get in touch with Winamax. But you see, we didn't have a strategy. Winamax... It's Patrick, isn't it?

- He was a co-founder of... - There's also the one who's going to be my partner, he was also in it. - Ah, maybe. - Yeah. - Who is it? - The one who did the bikes in gel. - Ah, Simonucci. - Ah, yeah. - He was also in it. - Ah, yeah, you're right. Exactly. - So we shot this for two, three years.

Did it work? It worked, but we did it for fun. Everything was legal. If we look at the details, the software writes everything on your computer, in a file, in case of a problem. We just used what they did. We recovered writings that were in your computer. It's completely legal. As a player, do you have a real advantage?

But you won or not? No, I didn't win. But I mean, those who played with this software, they had stats... They had advantages. The problem is that I realized that I was playing to have fun and that the stats could tell me what they wanted. So a bad player remains a bad player. I was the perfect example. But it was a good experience because we faced the marketing part that we didn't know. We faced B2B, B2C.

And so we made a little school of life with that. After a while, we analyzed the market. We said to ourselves, if we take 100% of the market, are we living well? The niche is too small. We said no, the niche is too small. Well, you know what, we continue for the pleasure. And at some point, we stopped it. But the niche of fitness is small too. Yeah, but it's small, but...

But it's much bigger. A software like we had on poker, the market wasn't ready. They said "I don't need that". And the players were like me, they didn't want to be helped, they just wanted to play. And it's very good, they didn't necessarily need it. Even if it was completely democratized a few years later. It's completely democratized and now almost everyone plays with it.

It's really a word, it's called an HUD. So we were called HUD Poker in addition, it's a great term. And it's called an HUD, it comes from aviation. The fact of seeing information in front of your eyes. But you can play on Winamax or anything else with these stats that come over or not necessarily? Yes, it was sticking to your window in a transparent way. And you had a little helmet that came to put next to each player and that gave all the stats on that player. No matter with which tool you use? So we had developed a compatibility at the time with Winamax, Pokerstar and...

Today, people who use HUB can do it on any... The software has evolved well now. I saw it not long ago. It still exists and it's compatible with all software. It doesn't tell you what you have to play. It tells you the stats. It tells you the statistics. It anticipates. It won't tell you what the other one has in front. It was nice, it was funny. For me, it was a bit like

The first thing we did was to get in touch with Winamax. I don't know what the right way was to get in touch with a company. I was young, I had no experience. I was on LinkedIn, I contacted all the people who worked on Winamax. I have a developer who called me, who answered me. So I tried to get in through marketing. We were trying everything. There was an event Winamax, we put on our t-shirts, we distributed flyers in front of the event. We said to ourselves, they will find us, at some point we will get there. And did you sell or not?

And no, we haven't sold this company. It's more quiet. The other day, I listened to a podcast that said that the people who will be the most influential in the future are those with the engineer and developer profiles, like you. It doesn't surprise me. I love engineers. I love engineers, actually. It's true, an engineer, you can work with him. Often, he's square. He has an exceptional logic. It's true. In fact, with hindsight, I would have liked to be an engineer. It's good.

Yes, because the engineer is the problem solver. We'll come back to that. Yes, because we're in this podcast, big value. At some point, Dan, you're going to share with us a theme that you're looking for in the problem solver.

It's a key topic because we deal with problems every day, more or less. And in fact, it's something that will be... I can't wait to hear a little bit about your experience on the subject. When we asked you with Sébastien what you had a particular specificity that you wanted to share, you told us about that. I think it was frankly a super sexy subject. And I can't wait to hear it.

- Come on Sam, I'll let you do it, we're ready. I want to get into the subject. - Do you want to know something else about Dan or can we go to Sportigo? - I think we're good. - Great. Next topic, we will move on to the presentation of Sportigo. So you can introduce us to Sportigo. - We hear about Sportigo more and more. Today you are official partner of Resophyt.

I had the chance to talk with you, it was a great, fast and very responsive exchange. I bet on the man before the software, and when he presented me the software, I said they understood everything. There is an incredible stat, today there are 1000 clubs. That means a lot. 1000 clubs in ten countries, that's what we said in the intro.

So, I can't wait to understand the rules of this success. I'd like you to introduce yourself. Well, to introduce Sportigo, it's... So, the catchphrase is a management software all in one. So, once we've said that, we've said a little bit of nothing, really. But it still allows us to have a global presentation of what we do. Our goal at Sportigo, our vision, is to say we must be a product that does what a CRM... What we expect from a management software. So, it's basically, I'm going to manage my members, my payments, my plannings,

What we're waiting for, the basis. Our vision two years ago was to say, "Okay, we're going to pivot a little bit." That's good, but that's it, it's done. How do we accelerate? And to accelerate, it's how do we make our product pivot in a way that brings value? And so we started building pillars and saying, "These are going to be the pillars that will accompany us in the choices and in the developments and investments that we're going to make." Because each development in our company is an investment. It has to make sense.

So we thought, what are the challenges of the giants? We spent a lot of time with the giants to try to understand what the challenges were, where we could support them. And we thought, it's easy, there is an acquisition aspect. We will need our software and the power to acquire new prospects and new members through Sportigo.

there is the retention part. How can a software today support managers to have an impact on the retention of their customers? And then there is the internal aspect of Sportigo, it's what we want to be from a customer service point of view, the way we want to work. And we worked on this aspect to try to put a corporate culture in Sportigo, because it is a company that has grown a lot in two years, as many managers who joined us as well as in terms of staff in the structure.

And for that, we need to put a corporate culture because that's what will be reflected in the daily exchanges we will have with the managers. Today, Sportigo is a 100% French company. Do you have all your teams in France? We have one person in Italy because we opened the office in Italy. But otherwise, the main place, our offices are in Paris. What is the ambition of Sportigo?

It's multiple, it's not encrypted, to be honest. It's not what we're going to look for. We're going to have an objective to do acquisition on the market, it's to get the right product. I can share with you, we have some data that we follow and that reflects where we want to go. It's not necessarily the turnover that we're going to follow in millimeters, it's going to work around customer satisfaction.

So we will work on customer satisfaction, we will work on each exchange, we will try to recover information. Typically we will have IA that analyzes all the conversations we had with the customers to try to understand what is the satisfaction rate of each exchange to try to see where we should improve.

to provide better support. How do you do to have this? Is it on the calls or is it on the follow-up software that you can analyze the conversations, the context with all the clients you had? Everything is analyzed. Everything is analyzed? Yes. That is to say that today,

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This customer was expecting an answer and he didn't get an answer. Or it's been two times that we tell him that we can't get an answer. So there is really a fairly fine analysis that is done. And besides, it will come out to us every month. We will make a report. So our teams of Customer Success Managers, so it's those who will take care of training the clients, onboarding them, setting them up, making them autonomous on the product, making the support. They will make a report based on this IA and their human feeling because it's

There is this human feeling which is important. And we come to mix the two to say, here are the points of intention where the structure must go on the next month to quickly solve the little problems that we have, the little problems of the gaps that we had on the short term. And suddenly, it is which IA that generates these reports? We have several. We will have internal IA to intercom. So we use, we rest on it. And there, we are developing our own model to be a little finer. As a developer, you're playing with it. Exactly.

Super interesting. So the absolute focus on loyalty, customer feedback, is the most important performance indicator for you? Yes, because in fact, there is also the other one which will be the adoption of the product. That means that we will make a new module at Sportigo, for example. So we do it in collaboration with our managers, but also with people who are not yet with us. So we have been in contact with them.

the project is in progress or they didn't come to work with us we will try to tell them if we had that, would it interest you? so we will try to understand, we keep this range quite wide and once we have started a new product typically we released a month ago a advanced sales module an advanced sales module is an e-shop that allows you to sell products online that allows you to say for example if I have a VIP subscription then I have 20% of return on some other purchases we tried to create this ecosystem in fact

So who will want to take this product? Because many of us said we want it, we develop it with them, and in the end, it's what we really did, and that's the adoption of the product. It makes me laugh because these are ideas that we had, Fab and I, of platforms like that, to help managers create their online shops.

But so, I see: "Adherence management, planning and reservations, payment, CB, CEPA, bank statement, SMS, access control" Do you also do access control? We do all the access control part. It's the same big expertise of Sportigo, for the moment. How long has it been since Sportigo existed? It was officially launched in 2018. 2018. And the acceleration took place in 2018?

post-covid it has slowly recovered and it has accelerated quite a bit. In fact, what you have to see is that we were talking about Laurent, Laurent managed the company almost all by himself until two years ago, two and a half years ago. And so you have to imagine that all this is a person who has almost developed it. Laurent is a developer too? Yes, he is a developer. I am impressed by this vision there in fact, ultra horizontal in fact, that you started with

You said there was a dev team that was more oriented payment and all, and behind a problem. In fact, we will find the solution with acquisition, retention.

Can we go back to the pillars you mentioned to see exactly the bricks you brought? Because you gave me a lot of presentations, the product evolves very quickly, you take back as much ground return as possible from the managers to make the product evolve. Today, what does Sportigo give concretely, beyond the tool itself, what have you put in place or what is currently in pilot?

So what we have set up, it will be typically on acquisition something that has a lot more, that pays a lot, it's tunnels. In fact, typically like you through Resophyt, we work a lot with independents. So an independent, there can be several clubs, but it remains an independent spirit, an independent functioning. And by studying a little bit on the acquisition part, one of the most painful points that we felt was when I want to make online sales.

my tunnel, in fact, it is not, it does not transform. And we were looking a little jealous of the tunnels of Hohner, of Fitness Park, and saying to ourselves, I would like the same thing, but it's a cost. It's a cost that is really not neutral, for the moment. And so we started, typically, on the acquisition, a big project around tunnel games. And a tunnel, it must have several possibilities, since we work with people who want to do personal training at 85 euros per session, others who will make a subscription at 20 euros.

Some will want to sell, others not. So we created tunnels that will allow us to acquire leads, to book trial courses, or to make a report, or to sell. And we can sell from an agenda. We will display collective courses, we buy, we find ourselves in a tunnel and we make our purchase, or simply a direct sale. And what will change between what Sportigo does and what is happening elsewhere, is that this tunnel is on the manager's site and we never leave the manager's site. It doesn't look like anything like that.

Technically, it's a real challenge. And in terms of transfer rates, we saw structures pass through this model and go and get up to 30% more acquisitions. So it's an impact that is colossal because you're in a...

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And our tunnels were designed for that. And that has a strong impact on the acquisition directly for the managers. What is the business model for these tunnels? Do you take a commission on the sales made by the tunnel or how do you function? We had long exchanges because it is a big investment in our development. We decided to offer it. It was a real topic. It was to say, in fact, this has a value.

A little bit everywhere, it costs between 5 and 10 thousand euros to develop a tunnel, basically. And to say to ourselves, what do we do? It doesn't make sense for us to sell it for between 5 and 10 thousand euros. It's not logical in our business model, but on the other hand, putting a monthly fee on it would have been logical and even rather intelligent, because it's a real cost, even in terms of maintenance. We often think about the development of the software, but it evolves, there are problems that occur, and that's always money that we invest in continuous. We decided to offer it, because we considered it to be a starting point

and that starting today with a software that does not have this type of proposal, today in the market, it does not make sense. And so we decided to include it in the offer without increasing the basic offer. Do you strategically have a reading today on whether it is preferable for, depending on the type of club and the type of service, to propose rather a tunnel that points towards the sale or rather a tunnel that points towards a trial session or other?

What I see, in any case, the feedback from managers, is that if I put my prices online, since I'm more expensive than a fitness park, I won't have anyone. So I have to make them come to the club, I know I'm going to transform them. That's a huge fear.

Again, I'm not in the room, I don't know if it's true, but I have the stats and the stats prove the opposite. And do you also have stats by type of club? You're right, you point out exactly what I was going to follow. In fact, afterwards, you have to take into account specific parameters for the structure. Where am I located? In what type of challenge zone do I have? Not necessarily look at this focus, focus on the competition. It's a parameter, but it's not the key parameter. That is to say, you don't just have to look at the competition.

You have to analyze it, you don't have to go with blinders. But there is also what type of customer you have. If I'm next to the station and people come in here while going to work, and so I arrange them. There is all this context that must be taken into account. The services we offer too. And the services expected by the clientele. What I recommend on this, as I think there is not a good answer, is that you have to try. Test. It's the only reason, it's the only thing on the ground. We try, we test, we move forward. And on the other hand, we analyze.

And we analyze to optimize. And did you follow the strategic vision that we had done in the network with the external specialist Romain Bouvet on neuroscience? You saw it? I signed up, I missed it. You missed it? Yeah. Okay, but you replayed it. Okay. And this conference was exceptional, this training. And suddenly, he also explained that in a website, in fact, the price...

It happens, in fact, no matter the price. In fact, all that is important is what is before. And when you land on a website, the words you use, the images you put,

the DNA that you make vibrate, the way you explain to the prospect why he has every interest in signing up at home and not elsewhere, in fact, that's all that makes the funnel work more or less well and no matter the price. So, and even almost he said, no matter even the presentation of the price, while for me the presentation of the price is a key subject. I do training on the offer and suddenly I know, well, I learned over time

How many formulas do you have to present? What do you have to put, not to put, etc. At least I have a feedback on that. And he explained to us that in fact, it's great, but it's really not the most important thing. The most important thing is the front. And so, yeah, the emotional, the emotional, the emotional, really emotional. You don't see a price. And the price, in fact, is...

You know, you have sales sometimes where you say to yourself, but you didn't even ask for the price and you want to buy. And in fact, it becomes secondary. You say no, in fact, that's what I need. And that's what will also optimize the conversion rates of these funnels. Yeah, clearly. And you see, you have, when we talk about that, in fact, it's the story. What story do you come to tell? So it's not in the sense of telling a story that doesn't exist. But it's just how do you present the things you offer? How do you put your value forward? And...

And on these tunnels, to resume, what we typically advise customers, it's simple things, but on your site, if you have activities that are very diverse, I'll give you an example, I have someone who does pilates and who does aerobics.

it's not the same people who address the pilots at Aerox, it's potentially in terms of keywords on which he will put for his ads, two very different keywords that must point to different pages on his site and therefore the tunnel, we will be able to filter and put a tunnel on your Aerox page where you will only see Aerox courses and not pilot courses because my intellectual approach is I am on Google or a GPT chat, I do a research, I want to do Aerox, I fall on the Aerox club, I fall on an Aerox page, I am hyper specialized and suddenly I have a pilot planning.

And then I lost the client. Because I said to myself, no, no, Pilate, Aerox, why are they doing both? And so we filter, we only put the Aerox, and then you gain a few points again on your transfer rate. And it's all these little adjustments that make you be able to go and get performance. And this story that we're telling, in fact, as you say, it's not there for...

bias reality. It is there to better explain what we do, what we propose. You see, me, following this training of Romain Bouvet, I took a slap so important that, in fact, it even impacted the way I present the network.

We even reworked the whole approach. And at the time, we were talking about everything we had built in the network. You know, the multi-club for the members, the shopping center, the FitMeet networks with the annual event, the daily conversations, etc. But in fact, it refocused us, refocused us. In fact, the network, in the end, thanks to this training, I understood that the network was to break with isolation.

decision-making and that often, even all the time, success depends on two to three very, very good decisions.

And when you manage to have the three that follow each other, very good decisions because you have confronted your reflections and your ideas with other managers who have experienced the same problems, etc. with specialists, well, you immediately have a growth curve that is being put back. So basically, thanks to that, it's true that we explain the network differently by explaining that it's a circle of leaders.

where we go around with the decision-making isolation to decide better. And then, of course, there are advantages that are a consequence of this gathering, which are the multi-club, the shopping center and everything else. But it's going around with the isolation. You see, the shopping center, the same, there is an intelligent logic behind it. It's also for a manager to say, damn, but...

I don't know which software I was using. And if I looked at what people spent hours and hours analyzing, comparing the best lenders. So the idea behind the shopping center is to allow managers to decide better because other people have done a huge analysis to get the best partners into the center. You come in.

Now, explain the problem that you solve and you can show a list of solutions that you propose. That's it. We go from the shopping list to the main problem. And that's what we're going to deal with. And all the rest is a consequence or it's tools that will allow you to get there. That's very clear.

And you see, it's crazy because it's been how long since we've been managing the network? It's been six years, I think. And it took... In fact, that's what I'm explaining. It's that in fact, often, to make top decisions, you have to be in a community of people who think about their daily lives together.

And you also need to have verticality. And that's what we bring with us, it's visio-strategic, both for managers and partners, because we're all managers and business leaders, so we're here to evolve and learn from others. So verticality is what allows us to open the chakras, to say, damn, we never thought about it, it comes from another sector of activity, it's super clever, how can I adapt it to my sector? And that's, I think that's wonderful. Yeah, it's a lot of value. The exchange has a lot of value, there's no doubt about it. And to ask, to exchange on the problems we have,

And you said it, with people who don't necessarily work in the same way as you do, because that's what's interesting, and that's even, for me, a pillar of recruitment. That means that when you're going to recruit someone in your team, you shouldn't be completely in opposition with your ideas, but on the other hand, it's interesting to have someone who is sufficiently in opposition and who is sufficiently able to tell you, I don't believe you or you're sure,

to improve the thinking track because in isolation you can have this thing to tell you: "I know how it works, it will go like that." And you have to have the openness of mind to say: "I'm going to take people who will challenge me in my entourage too." And it even goes through recruitment. Absolutely, totally. But you know, you are part of these people. By the way, the last one we had in podcast, I think it was Moses from Elevate,

You are part of these people who are OK with the idea of opening up the reflection with other entrepreneurs. And you see, I know that you organize moments of reflection with

other providers in the world of fitness. You make round tables where you exchange on topics, you have dug up the loyalty, I think with network partners too. I think of EXO, I think of The Mood. I know you work together on reflections like that and I find it super, super clever. And that's also, I think, why you have so much growth because you are open to all that. Moses himself said in his podcast, by the way, if you haven't seen it, you have to watch it.

He explained at the very beginning, he entered the fitness world, he knew nothing about it. We proposed a file to him to buy a club, he knew nothing about it. What did he do? He went to the fitness hall at the time, he went to see a person who had the most experience. He told him: "Look, we proposed this to me, what do you think?"

Who would have done that? I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have dared, I wouldn't have... But he's totally right. And today, Moses is this kind of manager who runs clubs, who goes to see other clubs, etc. And you, when you explain to me that you make round tables of thought, when you explain to me that from time to time, you can go and accompany a club in the migration towards your tool, because for two days, when you're with him for 48 hours, you capture things that have so much value,

And I think that's why you have so little churn in your tool and you have such growth. Because it's true that making acquisitions like that and having resilience like that, it doesn't work. And I think that really, we completely understand today why you have this growth in the way you...

you advance in your thoughts. You're right, it's clear. It's completely like that that we work. It's by opening up to the maximum and by talking. I'll tell you, you have a friend who is in the building, he has his box in the building, you can tell him what you're doing. It's going to give you an idea because it has nothing to do with it. You say, in fact, it can give you ideas. And it's super enriching because in the fitness world, there is a force, I find, it's that the managers, they have...

a lot of different profiles. That means that you are in an ecosystem where you still have people who have lived things before, who have very different experiences. And that has value because they will have biases, like all of us, like all humans. They will have experience, they will have a lack of experience elsewhere. And in fact, the lack of experience will open up a question that will tell you, but yes, in fact, why do we, he comes to sweep us a bias that we had.

saying "well, we can try that, why not, it could finally work". Others who have this experience and this multitude of profiles has a value and in fact it is in contact with us. Last year we did a little check with the people in the team, we looked at how many managers I talked to.

at least once. In the exchanges in the system, we were about 1000 people. So that means that if we take 200 days a year, it's 4-5 people a day with whom I had the chance to exchange. And in fact, each exchange...

We learn a little bit, we build a little bit and it makes me think of what Machin told me. And hop, we take notes and we cut them out. And then we say, wait, we have something there. And you see, I have exactly the same chance. I spend my days with managers or partners. And I learn, I learn, I learn, I learn, I learn. And you see, at some point, we took this training out of the network.

But it was just a consequence of all the exchanges I had with people. I wasn't better than others. I just had so many reflections, I saw so many things that didn't work and that worked, that I made links. And I understood. And so we made a process. And that's what made the thing. And in fact, the reflection behind all this is that you have to connect with people. And it's not easy because we have a lot of work. Because sometimes we say, but I don't have the time.

And we can hear it. And you see, there's something I noticed at your place, it's that I have the impression that today you work a lot. You're everywhere. You go to Fibo, you go to Rimini, you go everywhere. You come here to the podcast, you come, you take a morning to give value to those who will listen to us. And despite everything, I find that you have a reactivity that is quite incredible. I don't know how you do it.

But it's true that the last time I asked you a particular question for the network, to know if you could accompany us on a subject, I think the next day you had a solution. And I can't, in fact, could you explain to us, I'm sorry, I'm making a little hook in terms of personal organization and productivity, how do you manage your daily life? So yes, there is a load that is consequent. It's a matter of prioritization. That is to say that we think that there are things that are really, it's a classic curve of urgent, important, important. And we're really going to get into it to say to ourselves,

What can be of value? Where is my value really? That means that, you see, typically, I now have people in the team who will take care of doing the customer demonstrations. That, I don't want to let go. It's out of the question that I let go. I don't need to do it anymore.

I need to do a little bit of it. I need to feel this thing. So I'm going to put a little less effort. And in fact, at times, I have subjects that are going to take over. So I'm going to manage my intensity. It's a term that I use a lot. It's what intensity I put on what subject.

And there are key topics that need to be addressed right now. And since time is not extensible, which is the big challenge of those who will also listen to this podcast, it's about making sure that what we are dealing with is really now that we need to deal with it. Can't we wait? We work in an ecosystem, the fitness, where

There's not much, if we take a step back, there's not much that can't wait 24 hours. You have to be honest. There's not one subject, I know that not everyone agrees with that, but if we take a step back, I like this sentence that says "we're not going to have rockets on the moon". There may be subjects that can wait 24 hours, 48 hours, because there is another one that has a much stronger impact, for the moment.

And that's how we're going to arbitrate most often. You see, when you talk to me, Dan, I would like us to do something for the network. For me, it's an important subject. I didn't decide to start this partnership with you, with everyone, to just tick a box on the website or just have access to managers. The idea is that we work together, for me. We give ourselves a mission together and we're going to try to solve it together. And it can't wait 15 days. That's it.

That's important. That's why we're all here today. That's it. That's super clear. Priority, knowing how to say no, or delegating certain things, or shifting to put priority in the right place. That's it. You have to do things in the right order. There are a billion subjects I would like to do.

There are a billion topics, we have a vision that is quite clear of Sportigo, of what we want to do. We have to get back with it, it must wait. And it's true that I'm lucky, you know, by working again with Laurent, we have this thing, this emulsion, we boost each other a little bit, the team is there too, it is hyper present at Sportigo. We are lucky to have a team that is still hyper involved in what they do, they are close to the managers. You know, I'm going to give you a...

I'll talk about it later, but there was something I saw very strongly at Sportigo when I arrived. I arrived at Sportigo, a month later there was Fitex. There was a client who arrived and who was looking for his account manager to come and give him a hug.

And I came from an ecosystem of payment, market finance, you know what I mean. And when I saw that, I said to myself, okay, in fact, I'm coming to a company that understands everything. Because if the person who manages the support, so the problems, who is often the person, when you call him, it's because you have a problem. You go to the salon, you come to the salon to give him a hug and say thank you.

- Yeah. -

How do you do to prioritize? Do you meet together? Do you make a point? Laurent and you, I suppose, maybe? Or to say, OK, this is now, that's not now? We have a vision of Sportigo to, let's say, we have three timelines. The first timeline is at four years old. Where do we want to be at four years old? I'll keep this one for myself, I won't tell you today. We'll talk about it in four years, I'll tell you later.

I have a vision for 4 years we have a vision a little bit shorter term until the end of the year but which is oriented product we already know what we are going to do we already know what we are going to develop and I have a vision for a month

And in fact, by keeping one month, I know almost what we're going to do in a day. At the end of the year, I know what we're going to do. And I have the vision. And basically, the idea is to have this star of the North, as they say, which is the vision in four years. So that's where I'm going. But on the other hand, I don't know how I'm going to go. I don't have the pretension of knowing how I'm going to go. I know that I'm going to go. And so I'm going to be very agile to adjust my path. And that's what's going to allow me to manage my prioritization quite quickly. That means that

Since there is no development that takes two months in the ecosystem that we do. What does that mean? Does it take more time? It takes less time. The developments are done quite quickly. Well, after that, you have to test, validate. In fact, it is rather the time of analysis that will be done in advance. How many exchanges will I have? How am I going to be sure to make the right product? And once we have checked all the boxes, all that remains is to execute the plan, which is not the longest. Yes, I understand. And so, by having this very short-term projection, very

very actionable. This one, in general, will not shift too much. And all the rest, in fact, are pieces of the puzzle that we will assemble at the right time. And we will try to be very agile on this to say to ourselves, at the end, I will have a puzzle. On the other hand, do I start from the bottom, the middle, the thing? These are the business opportunities that will give us. It's the exchanges, it's the context.

And that's where we are very agile. And so, in your planning, time to analyze, precisely to decide better, you organized them in your planning as fixed times for you, an appointment for you, or how does it build up in your daily life? So that's what I did, that's what I used to do, more precisely, in advance, a bit like sport. It's something that I put in place, so I had crannies in my time job where I did sport to be sure not to miss these moments for me. And it's also at the moment where we do sport that we generally find solutions to a lot of problems in our life.

It's extraordinary. Especially when you're going to run. When you're going to run, it's incredible. You come back, you're boosted. There, I switched methods of work with Sportigo because I did a lot of tests and I still do on when is the best time to talk to the managers. And so my agenda is open early in the morning until late in the evening. I even did tests to open my agendas until midnight on Wednesday to see if it was good times to talk to the managers.

And so I haven't found the right balance yet to be able to block these cranes. So I do it opportunistically and at least once a week, I still have a dedicated time with Laurent on which we say to ourselves: "Okay, what do we plan to do? How are we going to do it?" Strategic time for them. And we will feed ourselves continuously, every day, with information. We have a lot of files in which we write our stuff and at some point we say to ourselves:

Now is the time to go on this subject for all the elements that make this sheet become important. Do you think that you have to put the personal sphere a little bit aside to be able to open up at any time? Do you think it is essential to have such growth, such success today, than to adapt as much to your customers

In fact, that's quite personal.

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But there is no goal. And do you manage to be connected? Because it's a real question for me, who also works a lot. It happens to me to have the brain still running and thinking, while I'm maybe having a family meal. To completely cut? I never succeeded. No, no, I never managed to completely cut. And does it suit you or not? It suits me, yes. It's a mode of functioning that suits me well. Because, in fact...

I will have the ideas that will come back, but we will not get out of the content, obviously. And in fact, I manage to allocate the right time, in any case, the right balance that is fine. It is perhaps not standardized on a 9h17, as we can see elsewhere. It is structured differently. And in fact, it's a mode that suits me rather well, to structure it differently.

Because I don't know how to say to myself at 5pm I close the computer, I close the computer and my brain goes on and off, I switch to something else, I never knew how to do that. So I just work it a little differently. So if we can't join you, it's because you're partying and you took a break. That's possible. I think it's the creative brains that are wired like that.

- And it's a bit... - Wait, creative but at the same time... - ... a reflection, namely, is this creativity and trying to block very precise times, does it not create frustration? - Yeah, I don't know. You see, my brain is so creative too, full of ideas, that if I don't segment, if I don't put everything on my planning, on my week, prepare each schedule, etc.

It goes in every direction. I'm frustrated, I need to have a line on which I advance. I had one question to ask you. I did a call planning. When someone wants to call me, I'm super frustrated because I like to be called when I'm in the car. Otherwise, I feel like I'm wasting time.

So I proposed this, I made a slash call, Hugo Benz shortcut, thanks Hugo Benz, we will have a podcast on the management of time employment, productivity of entrepreneurs. And so in his book he said slash, so I make a slash call and I send it and basically there are two call times of 15 minutes and 30 minutes on times that I fixed beforehand and that I know that these times are blocked for calls.

And at least I get out of all this because otherwise my whole day is millimetred. And so if I have an call that comes in at a specific moment, it's going to bother me in my work. And my question I wanted to ask you is if you had to take up a fitness club today, maybe this club is 50 years old. Today, what is the absolute priority that you would like to master? Look, what is the priority that you would like to deal with? Because you know the ecosystem well. If you had to recover a club today, what would it be?

It's the data. It's really the data. That means having a very fine follow-up of the state of the place, the average time, for example, of an add-on in the structure. And in reality, very quickly, it would be taking time to talk to the clients and the former clients. In fact, for me, that's the key. That means that

I don't know today, I don't know the challenges, for example, on the management of a machine in a gym. It's something I don't know. I haven't explored it yet. It's a little far from my perimeter, so I haven't put it in priority. I don't know the challenges around the electricity problem in your gym, the water problem. All these very field things, I don't know them. Where I could have value, it would be on the experience.

the experience and try to measure my actions. And so, if I take a club, understand the ecosystem, am I in the standards, not in the standards? Why do customers leave? Why do customers stay?

and try to see how I could improve and optimize this experience. So, you see, I miss a full step in the management of a club, which is colossal, I think. These are problems of the day. And so, if I take care of that, I would focus on the experience and adherence part. And imagine yourself, you're on the side of the coffee machine, you have Valérie, who has been at the club for 15 years, you just took over the club and...

You have maybe 5 minutes to ask him 3 questions. It's complicated. What would you ask him as a question? So, first of all, it's a very complex question. I'm going to try. I think I would ask him... The problem is that I would have to be human and see the relationship I have with her. If I don't know her...

It's a bit complicated because for me, there are questions that we can ask certain people and that we can't ask, and especially in a B2C context. That is to say, in a B2C context, you are in a context where you are much more of the human to the human than of the company to the company. And so you no longer represent a company that asks a question to another company, you represent a human who asks a question to another human. And so with all the personal problems that it can generate, when a human... And that's... So you have to be...

I have a manager who told me something really smart the last time

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I understand. So you ask a question about the person, why they are there, what is it? You have to be interested in people. Exactly. So first you are interested, then you try to understand what would make her recommend your club even better than today. How could she help me?

Yes.

So, beyond the business part, how do you manage to create something where every morning when you go to work and talk to people, despite the problems, it is done with the objective that things go well. And so it's in this direction that I would go. It's very interesting. Because a lot of people are doing the ostrich. But I think that going to open the reflections, to confront the reality of the return of members of the club,

and to be in a will to build, it changes the angle with which you arrive in your club. You arrive on something positive or to let me be quiet, I put myself behind the desk and I do my thing. There is one point that is important about it, because we are talking about it, it is the way we assimilate the feedback.

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Yeah.

Okay.

what is your problem you bring me a solution that's my job give me your problem we will work on the problem together and potentially I will offer you a solution that will be acceptable or not I think you have to succeed in transposing that in the ecosystem where you are managing your gym too I'm completely aligned when I have coaches who tell me they have back to field but they say there is this, it's not going ok but how many are they and it's exactly that and often they are 2 or 3

And in fact, they make noise. They make noise at 3 o'clock. But for me, I can't deal with it. It depends. But in this case, it's a real good question. Often, but that's it. I take it for myself too. You see the fast pivot. I tend to do it too. It's because I can't stand to leave something that goes to the average. And I want to act right away, right away, right away. Because I am someone who knows how to put in an important energy for three months. Okay.

very strong on a subject. However, I have to deal with it in three months because otherwise, in the long run, I will get tired and I will have to change the subject. And that's where the notion of urgency and importance comes in. Very quickly, you have to understand where you classify your problem. And so, when you brought me up to the point the last time, I'll take your example again.

For me, he was in both cases. It was a subject that we had to settle now, because we had already discussed it beforehand. It's a subject that we're not going to shift. It's not necessary. I know that if I put an intensity right away, I'll have a response now and I can tackle it.

And that's where we have to be able to have, and there was value, there was no doubt. So that's where you have to be able to arbitrate and sometimes we get into trouble, obviously. We're out of time. We're going to try to go back a little bit to Sportigo. Because I have a question. I have the impression that your tool is an aggregate of several tools. But how does it work? I have a question. How does it work? I am an independent manager. I contact Sportigo. What do we start with? Because for me...

So, how do you manage that? Do you deploy all the modules at once? How does it happen? So, it depends. Basically, we have a base. And already, I just take back a sentence that you said at the beginning, because it's a sentence that is key for me. Sportigo, it's not a... You didn't say it like that, but it's important. It's not a pile of modules, it's an ecosystem. In fact, it's...

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And we have, I think today, the simplest tool in the market to do it. So, management is, I have my member who is in my CRM, what does he do? It's standard, he has his mobile application, he can book his course, he can buy a notebook, he can subscribe again, he can

He can consult his contract, his invoices. As a manager, we can manage the agenda, we can manage the coaches. It's the basic functioning of a structure and that has an impact. Whether we are a studio with 50 members or a multi-franchise of I don't know how many clubs and I don't know how many members, we need a social-club. What is it called? A management software? A CRM? For me, it's not a CRM.

We can call it an ERP. In fitness, we call it a management software. So that's what we're going to present. We're going to show you how to tick the boxes that are expected by the software. In fact, often, people who come to us, they say to themselves: "Wait, you do all this in a software?" There is this side a little bit, but... And so we have to be careful with what we're going to present. We must not lose the person we have in front of us. She comes for a need. We will explain to her that her need, we know how to do it.

Or not, by the way. So we're going to ask, in a demonstration, it can be sometimes 30 minutes of questioning, where we're going to ask questions. Just ask questions, understand, and then we're going to adapt what we're going to present to the client. How do you manage your acquisition today? And there, often, we have a blank, it's...

I do ads, how do you check your ads? How do you transform? How do you manage your retention? How can a tool help you today? So we're going to question, we're going to try to understand the functioning of the room. We're also going to fall into holes. We're going to say, there's something they don't do. And we're going to focus our presentation based on that. So first, we sweep the standard. This is the adherence file. I can change the subscription, I can change all that. I'm going to give you a very simple thing. We change the subscription of a client, it's two clicks.

There are many software where you have to delete the subscription, recreate a subscription, etc. It takes 5-10 clicks. And in fact, it's always, okay, yeah, it seems to be easy to use. And behind, it's, okay, in our exchange, I saw certain things. Or, compared to the size of your structure, here's what I'm going to propose to you. I'll explain it to you. It's complementary modules. So, there's a SportyGo base. We explain all that well. And depending on how far you want to go, we'll show you what we can do.

whether it's a gamification tool, whether it's a lead collecting tool, whether it's a banking cost tool, for example. We can deploy a TPE, so we can go to the payment on site, on a payment terminal that we can put. And the TPE, is it you who provide it? Yes. In fact, the interest is to say...

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And so that's where we're going to dig the tracks. And then we did something, we made a price module page and you explain everything to the client in a very transparent way. So that's the basic offer. And so we talked about this module there. If I put it to you, here's your budget. And the person, she's going to have this notion of caddy. In fact, she's going to take on the shelf the modules that interest her and she can add them behind. That means that we can take as many modules as we want. It's not going to limit you. On the other hand, if you add them, it's going to open up opportunities for modules that will talk to each other. Okay.

I think that's it. Your real strength, I have the feeling that, as you say, there is an ecosystem that is connected. So you don't have to go through different tools with APIs that can move. Yes, that's it.

That's what we're trying to limit as much as possible. We're very open on APIs. The idea is to connect to the entire ecosystem. However, we think that the foundation must be more solid on the management level today and must go further on certain verticalities to be treated. Typically, to say that we're not going to do anything for customer retention and acquisition in a tool like the other. For me, it's an aberration. That doesn't mean that we're not going to leave connectivity with other tools that will have expertise in this field.

but today we have to go much further than what we do. Can we ask for the 3-4 pride of the product development today? I'll take on the recent history of Sportigo, it's going to be this tunnel. Honestly, this tunnel is fabulous because

Today in fitness, we are the only ones to do that. And it's a three lines of code to copy and paste on your website. That means that we go sometimes even with the manager who has a C-Demo, he says, wait, I'll show you, I'll paste your tunnel. His tunnel, it works now, right away. You recover the abandoned baskets, all that, you have... And after, you have systems where you can say, I have a prospect who is inactive, who is a prospect for more than X, for example, for a day, automatically, it creates a task for me and I call him.

It sends him an SMS, it sends him an email and I will be able to create a whole communication sequence that can be drawn by the manager. We help them do it when necessary. We do not hesitate to put our hand on the pad, to offer our experience on it. But recently, typically, we have IA in Sportigo. So I have a whole space where I will explain what my structure does. Do I see you? Do I tutor? Am I warm? Am I rather aggressive in marketing? I will give it all the context.

And then I will say, "Well, here you are, you make me a communication sequence based on who I am and my way of communicating. And I want you to make calls, SMS, because as you pay the SMS, we will never necessarily send it. It's you who will decide if you send them. You validate and it makes you all your com. And then it's up to you to refine if you want to refine behind. So, for example, you have an event that comes in three months. You can, in your tool,

In fact, prepare the whole com with the IA and broadcast at certain times. You don't need to go and manage it afterwards. That's it, you'll be able to program communications in the tool too. And you'll also be able to target, I suppose. And you'll be able to target. Because there are people who have been on your Irox page. I don't know if it happens like that. In a short time, it's going to start. I didn't count, I didn't follow you there. But basically, you have...

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And that's the things that are operational today. And that has a lot of value, for the moment. So, the tunnels, first point of pride? Yeah, I think the first point of pride is clearly the tunnels. The second, it's something that we have been working on for a month now. We did a complete refund of Sportigo. That is to say that last summer...

we had this growth that was good, we took a crazy bet, honestly, we said to ourselves, we're going to redo the entire interface of Sportigo. And the interface, it's a project that is colossal. That is to say that we were still well occupied with a lot of migration, customers who arrived at Sportigo, a lot of signatures, a lot of growth and development objectives.

We said to ourselves, "OK, we're going to almost no longer develop anything, the reality was a little different, for a few months, and we're going to focus on redoing the entire graphic interface so that the software is 5 years old. 5 years, 6 years for a software, at some point it has to be redone. Piling up new things on a base that is not healthy, it doesn't work. And so we didn't have any particular problems, but we made this investment of 6 months, we completely redeveloped the software.

We started to put it on the table, and we've been doing it for a month now. We've put 150-200 managers on it in a month. In two months, we'll have everyone on it, logically. It's a pride because the reception of managers is extremely good. Doing that, in general, you expose yourself to a churn rate that is important. Because you say, "You change me, I will change."

And for now, it hasn't been the case at all. No one has gone there. We did webinars, we presented them well. We are highly requested by people who want to go there. Why? Because we have integrated a lot of things into it. We have integrated NPS, we have integrated survey, we have integrated sponsorship, we have integrated the capacity where you personalize your tunnel and you recover the code. You become autonomous to do your whole tunnel. You don't need to talk to anyone to do it. The experience has been boosted in terms of ease of use.

OK.

So you mean that on the interface you just typed. Yes. And the new clients, you integrate them on the new interface? Exclusively on the new interface, yes. So second the interface. Yes, the interface is a colossal piece, the third. I just come back to the interface. I do the parallel compared to my previous job when I was in accounting expertise. I think it's a bit the same subject when you choose a accounting software.

But you know that it even impacts your

your life span of your employees as a manager. That means that, it's years ago what I did in another structure. In fact, the interface that you're going to put under the eyes of your employees as a manager will have an impact on their way of working, their desire to work. It's the main tool. And in the end, it plays on the fidelity, the fidelity of your staff. So that's a big block, honestly. Really happy to have passed it. They just accepted us.

And that, for the moment, you see, I'm super happy. I have clients with whom we move forward together. They have problems. They bring them back to us. We adjust them, in general, in the hour, in the two hours. We explained to them, here, on a new interface. It's great. The confidence that we manage to do. It's sure. Or I tell them, wait, I have a little problem with this pre-lazement. You say, OK, you're one of the first to switch to this thing. Don't worry, wait, we look together. We adjust, we correct.

And he says thank you, you say thank you all, thank you because you are helping us. You have repaired for everyone. And so that's great. The third would not be pure product, it would be our ability to keep the managers with us. In the scalability that we are having, in the growth that we are having.

The number one risk is that we only focus on certain customers or that we change the culture of the company. So we follow this through customer feedback, but also through stats, so the first answer, the quality of the answers, everything is followed on this. And by opening countries, by opening Italy, for example, it's a bet for us. We don't have a investment fund behind Sportigo. Each investment counts and you can't miss two or three investments. So you still have to aim fairly.

So we just signed a structure of 70 clubs in Italy. After a year, we started. For us, it's a sign that we made the right effort at the right time, at the right place. We made specific developments for Italy, but that were just right. We addressed ourselves to the vertical in Italy. And on the organizational and internal part, we manage to hold, or even improve,

even if we multiply the number of customers. So it's very valuable. How many employees do you have today? We have 13. How many do you have on customer follow-up? I have 4 on customer follow-up, and a fifth one is coming. Almost 40% of the team on customer follow-up. That's right, and there are still few. And I have a person who arrived 15 days ago who has a role between commercial role and customer follow-up. In fact, his role is just to call the customers.

In fact, it's something we were doing badly, it's just calling them. And so, it's just, it's the same, but in fact, it's... And he places appointments, he shows them what we're doing, the new things, and he does that all day. And that takes me back to my initial question, because installing a software like Sportigo, it can be a source of anxiety for a manager. I think that with this customer service,

there is a support that is made and that is enormous. We would like to do more, we would always like to do more. It's the challenge of selling a software at a price that, again, the managers may not necessarily agree with me, but which is not much compared to a software that will run a large part of a structure. Can we talk about the price? Can we say it? We start at 100 euros. 100 euros is the basic formula. It's a basic formula, without modules, without access control, without anything. You're on a standard formula that will still give you a mobile application, reservations.

a lot of things for 100 euros and then we can make your mobile app, white mark. It's the same, it's one of the things we released quite quickly. We can release a mobile app with your name, your logo, we will be able to manage access control. So we do all kinds of access control, turnstiles, corridors, all kinds of barriers to parking at some customers. If we take a full package of Sportigo? If you take the full package, you will arrive roughly around 350 euros.

I think if you take everything, you can maybe reach 400€. I have a question, maybe you don't want to talk about it, so we won't go into it, but you didn't talk about the IA with the points, right?

Do you see what I'm talking about? The points on each client to have color codes on what is important or not that I treat or not. Yes, yes, we can talk about it. Because I have the impression that it's still... Do you want to open the subject of the link? Almost, between the two. But it's still on Sportigo. In fact, we have a module that will come out in a month or two. Maybe you can't talk about it because it didn't come out. Or we can start... The podcast will come out in a month.

Because for me it's something absolutely exceptional, but really, so the fact of being able to have for the salespeople or the sports advisors who are at the reception, a priority scale that comes automatically feed on all the conversations, all the exchanges that have been had by weak signals, etc. for the

give the commercial context, make it take time and treat the thing because it also deals with the part of the hookers so it also allows to master the affiliation. Do you want to tell us more precisely? Basically, we have with this new version of Sportigo, we created something called the Pulse Box. So the Pulse Box is something that exists naturally and that is available to everyone at Sportigo. The Pulse Box, it comes to take over your club and it's going to come to bring you back the actions to be done.

We talked about sequences. So I have a sequence where I have to call a client at the period X linked to a trigger. A trigger is: I have a prospect who is still a prospect, I have someone who is not coming anymore. So we will analyze a situation and sequences will be sent automatically. An SMS, an email, I have nothing to do, it's fully automatic. But at some point, you have to take the phone and you have to call.

I like to say, I take a step back, but you'll see, it will allow us to go back to it. I like to work by exception. It's a term that I take from time to time, it's to say, a software must be a software that will point out the needs of human intervention on a mechanism of work by exception. What does that mean? It means I have something that comes out of my perimeter that I consider normal, expected, and so there, a human must intervene. And the idea is that this little boss, you have to be able to feel it, to analyze it.

The Pulse Box is there to centralize that. We said it earlier, Sportigo is an ecosystem where I have gamification, acquisition of prospects, I have a lot of topics. It's good, but what do I do with that? And that's where we have to help the managers. That's where we were talking, we're going to help the managers. I have someone, I launched a challenge, I have someone who succeeds the challenge, I have a notification that informs me if, however, it's my desire.

Because I want to call him, I want to congratulate him. It's an important moment, it's a strong moment. He reached his 150 days of presence in the club. It was one of the challenges we had given ourselves. I got it. I have a prospect who is not transformed since a day. There is a momentum, you have to be very fast. I'm going to call him. So it's going to take me a task to call him. I have a paid one, it's going to warn me. It's me who will finally define what is important in the management of my club. And that, it's going to take me alerts and actions to realize and to coach.

So what disappears is the action of going and looking for all these information. These actions that bring no value and that are chronophage for a collaborator. That's exactly the idea. We're going to tell you how you are. And you, as a manager, if you have collaborators, what we often see is, if I'm not there, nothing happens. But if you configure your Pulsebox correctly,

Your actions will happen. They know what they have to deal with. We will take their hand and they will be able to focus on the right intensity. On that, you have IA, IA that will tell you, that will prioritize your tasks within your important tasks. Because if you like to have control over everything and you have 100 tasks a day,

In the same way that we said to ourselves at some point, we have to be careful about what is really important. Because even if everything is important for you, but there are maybe some urgent issues, well, there we put a weight, so a notion of importance on each of the tasks. And so you will be able to know which ones you must treat as a priority. And compared to what you were saying, so that's the basic context of Sportigo with this Pulsebox that allows you to pilot. My question is how do I feed this Pulsebox ?

So we said, we have the gamification, we have the sequences where I have to call. These are things that we configured, us, in one way or another. We were active in the configuration. On the other hand, there are events that I like to say, they are non-events, they are things that no longer happen. Or it's things that you can't detect as a human being easily. You can't... You have to be able to analyze it. And on that, we put in place a mechanism where we're going to analyze you a hooker.

A "décrocheur" is not a yes or no, it's a grade from 1 to 5. 1 you're not a "décrocheur", 5 you're at a very high risk. And the question is, how do I intervene when I go from 1 to 2, from 2 to 3, from 3 to 4? And there, you can trigger sequences and actions based on a "décrochage". And what is a "décrochage"? It's not just someone who comes to me,

It's someone who doesn't open their emails anymore, someone who starts to have payment problems, someone who starts to cancel classes more often, in the last minute. In fact, we're going to analyze a behavior. This behavior comes from our database. So we analyzed the behavior in a gym and which leads to a resitiation. And so that's where we're going to be able to trigger. In the same way, we're going to do it on the prospects. My probability of a prospect's transformation according to the actions he made. And there, we said it earlier, I came back to the page.

Since we are able to know that you have come back to the site page, we could even imagine a system where it gives you a notification to say that it has come back to your site. Call it. And there, it will alert you: an action to be carried out now. This one is urgent. And so it's all this system there. Because by talking to people, we say the same way. I want to follow my hangers. No, you don't want to follow your hangers.

not to have a trigger. You want to intervene before you have a trigger. But knowing that someone has a trigger, what is it for you? Is it a sleeper with a trigger? So you don't want to talk to him anymore? So is this prism of saying, I don't talk to sleepers anymore and I want to talk to the trigger. Okay, but in fact, no, you have to intervene before, you have to be proactive. And that's where we're going to tell you, I developed a sequence where I have a trigger, I have to call it. And in the script, you can put a call script to say, here's what you have to explain to him.

Because potentially the person who will call is someone who arrived in the room not long ago. And in fact, it's good to call a client, but what are you telling them? And so the idea will be to automate these things to the maximum and to bring the human to the right moment in the experience. So that when you call, the IA takes all the context and makes a summary that can be a script.

for the commercial or the sports advisor and who will save time and especially relevance in his approach. In fact, you have the script of the giant, you will follow the script of the giant and you will have the information of the IAEA who will tell you, for example, he has not come in a long time, you have all the context and you can tell him: "Have you seen my last email on the thing?" You know that he hasn't seen it, but he will explain to you why he reads his emails.

I changed my email address. Oh no, it's the email box, I don't use it anymore. Oh, wait, I'll put your email address back in, so you can receive my events. And that's a detail, but a person who is in contact with you regularly, it's someone who gets less caught. And in the same way, we were talking about the white mark application. An adherent who has your application with your name, your logo on your phone and who sees it every day, because it's the only thing he looks at every day,

it's a more consistent member because you actually mark his mind and someone who no longer says your communications and you lose the link very slowly and that's really... you imagine a rope with small bits that go away and at some point it breaks and you shouldn't be interested in it when it broke it's too late. What do you think of Dan, of his tool in general? Because it's true that... I discover it live. You discover it live because suddenly the whole partnership part is me who manages it.

You work on other tools, you also work on the IA for the network, all that. What do you think, in fact, what is your analysis? I think, from what I understand and what I have seen in what is done in fitness, I think you are already in what I find incredible, you are already at the next stage. In preambles, I was telling you that I discovered CloudCowork a month ago and in fact, it shocked me to see that

how the IA tools will change our jobs concretely. And here, in what you're telling me, I visualize it very well, I see that it's ultra, ultra intelligent, and I say it like that because you will have all the data, whether it's acquisition, but everything, to resilience, to everything, everything, everything, you will have everything, and behind you will have your pulse, your pulse box,

who will analyze this mass of data, but which is fundamental. As a manager or as a collaborator, he will no longer have to do this little task

You just have to deal with the action. And you deal with a fundamental problem because in fact, analysis for managers who are often in the operational, it's very difficult for most managers that I know to have this time of analysis. You yourself, you said: "The first thing I would do is have data."

And so you, because you're in this logic there. But most managers, unfortunately, today, and we try to have the right tools so that they can have the clear data on the KPIs, etc. to know where to put the body. But often they don't. And there, in this case, you're going to deal with a huge problem because you're going to have already done the analysis. And so there will be no more to deal with. But beyond that, it goes so much further. When I rub my head, that's what I'm projecting. It's that...

We're not just talking about processing colossal data. We're talking about going to a well-determined person, to go and know exactly everything that happened in his life. In his life with the club, there you talked about something very stupid, but tomorrow to know that Gérard, who has been registered for six months in your club, even if he's not there for three weeks, he continues to open his application.

every day and who will make a little video of reforming his home

behind you have this info there, the guy, you call him, because suddenly you know it, you call him and you tell him, listen, it's been three weeks that you're not there, are you still going to go on the application? And the guy who tells you, well, yes, but the impact is colossal. And you see, it was the founder of Aircall who said that you imagine the number of calls you pass to your customers on a company that sells you a product and

And you call the after-sales service and the SAV didn't even know how to find your number. At the time, that was it. So they didn't even answer you by saying, "Hi Fabien, how are you doing?" etc. In fact, it's the same thing. This data is key. Besides, it makes me think of synergies for your tool. It's tomorrow, thanks to all this data, when you have an incoming call,

it shows you all the details, all the information. As soon as you answer, you have your sheet in front of you. "Hi Sébastien, how are you?" "I saw that it had been seven days since you had come to the club, or you were training." It would be exceptional. - Yes, clearly. These are the kinds of things we study. We believe a lot in ultra-personality. That's obvious. But in fact, ultra-personality without a tool that brings the data to you, and that has this famous work by exception.

And that comes from market finance, this work by exception. I'll give you an example. We were dealing with billions of euros. You just have to have a million, you just have to have a million, which goes to the wrong place. You have to put all your energy on it. The rest of the euros, there is no problem. And you have a key point that tells you, wait, there is a problem. You have to intervene, you have to put all the effort now, right now, to limit the impact you can have. Because on a volatile market, a million euros is 10, 20,000 euros of loss very quickly.

And so we try to put that back. And in payment, it's the same. In payment, you have thousands of transactions that go by per day. If you have one that breaks, you have to be informed right away that you have one that is broken to be able to intervene. Because it's ecosystems in which we work with partners, we work with all the banks in France. It can happen anything and anything at any time. And we try to apply this methodology of work also, internally. And I'll tell you, we

We do a simple thing, we use Sportigo, we use our own software and so our managers are adepts and we manage everything from Sportigo in our experience. And in fact, it allows us, even if it's not quite the same objective,

It allows us to understand what is it that Sportigo uses every day. We use Sportigo every day. It's incredible. And in fact, that's a great approach. So it doesn't fit in our needs. Yeah, I understand. Because they're a little different. But everything we can do with Sportigo, we're going to do with Sportigo. And we're going to interconnect tools around Sportigo to try to make it work in this way that suits us. Yeah, I understand. And it gives us ideas. But wait, but the giants, they have the same problem as us. It could be a good idea to put it at their disposal. Yeah, I understand. It's super clever. I love it. I love the approach.

I want to have Dan's key subject now. It's not over yet, because I'm thinking about something else. In fact, it will clearly allow managers to go and deal with a mass of actions in terms of customer follow-up and all that, which can be difficult. We talked about it the other day during the hot seat.

The question of the other site was: "Okay, my club is growing, I have a number of important members who arrive, how do I manage to guarantee a quality service with these new members who arrive?" And the tools must be there to answer these solutions. In fact, the tools, I like what is often said, the tools are a foundation, it is something that will help you, it will never be the work for you, especially not.

It's a little bit, because if you have to analyze all the tables to know exactly what is the priority to be dealt with now, it will take you time. And in this case, this work is done for you, even if indeed the human has to do it for us. I understand, but in fact, it still saves us time. It's your foundation. The more you have configured it well, the more you will have the right tool, the higher you will be in terms of automated intervention. And then, it's when you trigger the human. And that's where you have to put a maximum value on the human trigger.

And by the way, you say adapt...

In the vision of these IA who are able to develop and write code at crazy speeds, will the ultimate solution for a sports club be not over-measurement? It's a great thought. I don't have the answer, but it's a great thought to say to what extent the tool tomorrow, we are on over-measurement at the module level.

to what extent the over-measurement will not be more macro, more micro, sorry, tomorrow, and will have to go down further down thanks to these tools. After that, it raises a lot of questions. I don't have the answers, I think there aren't many. We can have convictions, but a 100% sure answer, no. But you have to be very, very careful about how it works, the way we use AI, its strengths and weaknesses, because we talk a lot about strengths, there are also big weaknesses.

We see it, I see every month a new sport room management software that comes out. Every month there is a new one that comes out, 100% done by IA. You can modify an invoice, you can delete an invoice, that is to say that tomorrow you use that, you have a tax control, it's good. It does not respect any rules, but because with IA you have made a few well-done prompts and in appearance it manages everything.

But the complexity is behind, it's regulatory, it's on a lot of subjects. And in fact, you have to frame your IA well, limit your IA if you're going to get on something. Because we are also guarantors.

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We often see the visible part of the iceberg, this expression where we see 10% of what is done and behind it, it's colossal so that everything works properly and that we are ... In the end, we still make payment and bill. As an accountant or as an expert in this system, it is a subject that is still quite important and on which we can have much bigger problems than having a loan that does not pass to an add-on.

I love IA. So, Claude, what is it? Do you want to talk about IA? We have talked about it. Claude Cohort is incredible. It connects to your entire ecosystem. I'm going to say the word for you, but it changes your life. It optimizes your time. What is the difference between ChatGPT and Claude?

ChatGPT, it slowly becomes, in my opinion, a new Google Search. It helps you to write, it corrects your spelling mistakes, but it will disappear because it will be integrated everywhere. CloudCowork will connect to your entire ecosystem. You said Notion, right?

It will connect to Notion, to your emails, to your CRM, it will connect to everything. And you will be able to ask him to do things for you. What do I have to do today? How does he connect to your CRM? Will he put the identifier, the code of himself that you gave him beforehand? How does it work? You have connectors. What is a connector? He automatically makes the link. I made the link between Cloud Cowork and my Notion. And there, for example, when I prepared the interview,

In fact, we go from a conversational IA, a chat GPT where they give you answers, to an IA that goes to action. And there, it's really a big difference. That is to say that there, typically for the interview, my last action was: "Now that we have the interview, you go to my notion, you know where to go, you create me, you note me with my little boxes to check for the interview. And in a fitness club, how will it translate?

I have to think about it again. The advice I would give is, in the first place, for two or three weeks, as a manager, to note down all the daily tasks to be able to analyze them, see what is repetitive, chronophage, and see what, after asking Cloud Code, in my tasks that I do there, how we could optimize all that. Cloud Cowork is a process system, you see ?

You could very well set up a process where, "Okay, I want to create a campaign for Irox. Here are the processes that I want. He now knows the process to create a campaign and in fact, he will make all the outputs of your Irox campaign. But beforehand, you will have been given what we call skills, that is to say, you will have given him the whole vision of your club, the whole vision that you want in your communications.

You don't necessarily have to tell him. You can simply tell him, listen, connect to my Instagram, connect to my Facebook, go see how I built my previous communications because it's the tone I want to give. And he, in fact, he's going to feed on all that.

It's cool, and you can connect it to tools where you can create action sequences. I'll give you an example. For example, I use N8N. These are tools that allow you to connect an entire ecosystem to Cloudwork, even further now. But you say to yourself, I'm going to look at all those who have read this email, those who have read it at least three times in the space of 24 hours, then it's going to come and hit me in the CRM, and so I have my team that will be able to call the client.

And so it raises a warning, and you call the client. "I saw that you were interested in this thing, do you want us to talk about it a little bit?" And CloudWorks is that.

- But as an engineer, it's tools that must... - You must have... - It must have boiled up there, right? - Well, I'm 5% of what Laurent is, my associate. So every week, he brings out a new incredible thing. And it's crazy, it's... No, no, it's...

It's colossal. The last client migrations we made, coming from software, we did them with... We had already developed our internal IR that did that, we already had tools that allowed us to do it.

But we made a last migration that was quite consistent, we did 100% with IA. It's just incredible. The level of precision that we found on the other side, we even raised inconsistencies. We found adherents who did not pay. We told them: "Look, all this, he does not pay, there is a problem. Look, false manipulation of such and such person, limit. " We really could, the tool allows us to point fingers at existing errors at the time of the shift.

and to cut contracts that had to be cut for two years and that were not. So on the subject of migration, it is a key point, the IA. But we use it a lot on a daily basis, as we said, on an internal level, but also development. Yes, because I suppose that to have such growth today, you have to surf on the IA too, to be able to optimize the work of your sellers, of everyone. We don't have a choice. In fact, we want...

try to keep up to date as much as possible, which allows us to grow a little less quickly, but from the point of view of team management, from the point of view of being as optimal as possible, as well as possible, because it's key, because we are in a sector where, once again, the subscription price is not so high. And so if you start recruiting massively, if the market starts to turn around, in fact, it can go very fast.

So we have to be extremely vigilant on how we make the structure grow and we try to be the smartest on the methodologies we put in place and the IA helps us a thousand times. For the clients, you told us that you work yourself with your own Sportigo tool, but for the prospect part, which tool do you use to follow the context?

We're going to use HubSpot. HubSpot, okay. HubSpot, which has its weaknesses too, like all products. We cut our hair on it sometimes, but we're going to work with HubSpot. After that, we have...

We are lucky, we are in an ecosystem where we are very few to go to find customers. That means that the vast majority of the clients who come into contact with us, it is the vast majority of managers who work with us today, they have come into contact with us themselves. Do you advertise? We advertise, yes. On Meta? We advertise a little bit on Meta, we do it on Google.

and there's a big part of the earpiece. Despite the size, we continue to have a lot of people who come to the earpiece. And quality partners. And very good partners. No, but it's true, for us it's important, it's more in this methodology of work that we have.

Super interesting, bravo. Honestly, I'm starting this podcast again. I know it's not quite over yet because there's one key thing I want to have. It's the problem solving. But I'm going to start again from there with a desire to work. Do we talk quickly about payment management? No, we don't talk about it.

On Sportigo, because I think it's a feature. We took this one. It's a feature. A historical feature of your software. Can you tell us more? Of course. So, basically, we talked about it earlier. In fact, the team, part of the technical team, me too, we come from the payment ecosystem. It's important because, finally,

We have a responsibility that is strong as a management software, which is that the quasi-totality of the money that goes into the hands of the manager will first go into our hands. And so, not only are we going to manage, once again, the planning, the adherents, the writing tools, the retention tools, but in fact, we are also just before the bank.

And a payment problem at Sportigo or a management software, it directly impacts the treasury. A treasury shift, we know that it can have impacts that are not neutral in certain structures. I'll give you an example, you have a problem, you shift all your payments in a week. Well, you have to pay your salaries, you as a manager, you have to have charges that will come out. If you don't have a sufficient rolling stock, you find yourself in trouble. So basically, we have a responsibility that is extremely strong here on payment management.

We made a choice, we work today with a lender called MOLLE, we also work with Stripe. We have different connections, but we will recommend MOLLE mainly. Why? Because I like this image and it's an image that I use often. In fact, we are never stronger than the weakest link of a chain. So imagine your structure is a chain. If you have a weak link in this chain, you can be the best seller, have the best product. If your payment tool doesn't work,

you don't have a product. And the product is an extremely important and central magnet of Sportigo. So we work with this partner with a

a very high level of partnership. We are extremely listened to by this partner. For us, it's key. They are extremely responsive in case of problems. For us, it's capital that aligns with our working methodology. They will allow us to manage payment in bank cards. And there, for once, they are very strong because they do all kinds of cards, Apple Pay, Google Pay, Tap2Pay, everything that exists, they are able to do it. The withdrawal, it's not.

And in fact, we come... So a client, a manager who is a manager at Sportigo, he will create an account at the payment provider under the hat of Sportigo, which allows him to benefit more. And we will help him. It's also a choice we made. We are one of the few actors on the market to do that, if not the only one. We come and put ourselves...

almost in front of MOLI and we will hold the hand to the client to create his account and in case of problem we will recommend to the client to go through us and not through MOLI and it's us who will analyze and make the link with MOLI in order to simplify the life of the manager to the maximum.

And that's key. Today, payment is really super important. But when there is a payment that is made, the money goes to Sportigo, then to MOLI? It's where it's important. It doesn't go to Sportigo, it goes to the MOLI account of the manager. It never goes to a Sportigo account. It never belongs to Sportigo. It's an important point because there are managers who are like that. There are management software where you go to an account that belongs to Sportigo.

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A member doesn't pay his subscription, there are two reasons why he doesn't pay. The first, I will cover 99% of the cases with these two examples, he doesn't have the money on the account. The second, he has made you an opposition to your mandate. That means that he was on his job, in two clicks he cut the mandate. It's a real problem today because the mandate is subject to a contract, but on the protection of the consumer in France, he has the right to cut his mandate in two minutes.

And the more modern banks are, the easier it is to cut. So basically, if it's a fund problem, in any case, he will have a link on his mobile application, he will be able to pay in credit card the payment he owes you as a manager. So he is autonomous, he can fix it.

- Is it a push notification? - He receives an email, a notification, and the next time he opens his app, there is a big red band. He no longer has access to the club, he can no longer reserve anything, he says: "You have a debt, thank you for settling it." - How do you do in your club today? - I, the unpaid, it's Nicolas who manages the unpaid, so it also goes up in the software.

And every month, there is an email that is sent automatically, but after a while, there is a need for it at a certain moment. Is it in this automatic mail that you have the possibility to make a payment by card, online, immediately? No, I don't have it. It would make me very sad. Yes, that helps. We see that we have, basically, on the first reason, the reason that I don't have any funds on my account.

It's a common incident, which can happen to some people, but there's not necessarily a will to not pay. And so in this case, having the link in the email plus the link in the app, I'm not going to give a statistic because it really depends on the clubs, but a very, very, very, very large majority, we're really getting closer to 100%, it's settled. It's enough, you don't need to go any further, you don't need to put your hand in the process. We have another mechanism, it's if the person is in opposition.

The positioner, after a while, will no longer pay. We'll send him an email, we'll do the thing, but she still did a deliberate act. Sometimes, they tell us it's involuntary, but in any case, she did an act of cutting her bail. Or, she changed banks. She forgot to warn you. It's on the margin, but it's more of a voluntary case of I'm engaged for one year, I don't want to respect my contract, I cut it.

The vertical will depend. The bigger your club, the less you put your hand in your club and your processes, the more you will have opposition. The correlation is obvious and we see it very strongly in clubs. And on this link, it's complicated to get the money back. So we have a method where we can get a banknote when the person gives you his bank information, of the transfer. We can also ask him to get the banknote.

And in this case, in case of blockage on the lease mandate, we will go to serve through the credit card on the customer account. And you arrive at the bank loan, you can have an action on it over a very long period of time? Yes, you are on a long term period and in fact it's a bit like a hotel. We do the same thing as in a hotel where we will keep a bank loan. Apparently, I heard about automatic bank loan.

Is that possible? On the first payment on the card, which is a loan that is made automatically? Yes, you can do it. There will still be two authorizations to do from a customer point of view. He must accept his payment, then the loan from the point of view of the user experience. But yes, it's something you can do. We are developing it on the payment terminal. So Molly is doing it, which will allow us at least the period to pay his first subscription. Because his first month, often he is paid at the reception. In this case, we will also come to recover the bank account at the volley.

After that, we can automatically represent the bribes. But if it's in opposition? We don't do it. To avoid unnecessary costs, we won't do it.

And by the end of the year, we'll have an automated recovery mechanism. That means you can either define manually or automatically, tell you that a person, you send him to recovery. Today, the recovery, you're not going to recover colossal sums. Do you have stats or not? No, I don't have them yet. I have market stats, but I'm waiting. I would like to have my stats on the vertical.

Because basically, it's the people who do the recovery that give you the stats. So they give you stats that are a bit crappy. And on the managerial side, I had a hard time getting stats for the moment. We, in the network, we work with 4 recoveries and we're close to 40%. So it's really not bad for the team. But the point of penalty, I have managers, it's the time it takes me and the ability to be sure that my file is complete.

So we thought we needed a partner that would allow us to do the file on its own, with or without a click. And that you remove all the mental burden of creating and following your file, it's the software that will take care of it for you. And so the software, Sportigo, will be connected in an API to cover mechanisms that will tell you: "My file has been late for two months, you will have defined your strategy." It starts covering.

and you just have nothing to do and the company takes its percentage if it manages to reach the money in return. - On the result? - On the result, yes.

So here are the methods we are managing today for the recovery. And when do you want to put this part in place? It's by the end of the year. We have already recovered all the connectivity. We will start the developments there, I think, in six months. The important thing is in the choice of the partner, to have partners with good results, that's better. And then, indeed, the data will be important because if you have 10%, there will be a subject. Exactly. So we are waiting to see that with impatience.

The person we have selected for the moment is someone who takes care of the recovery at the fitness park. So we took a fitness expert to accompany us. We tell ourselves that a priori, he is used to it. But we are waiting to see the results. There is a second subject on recovery. It's himself because it's something very complex. And you see, I'm going to give you a feedback that I got from a person who was in recovery. He paid. So basically, he went through my presto.

He paid and the person came back to sign a few months later, telling me: "It was so well done, so humanly, they adapted so much, they understood so much that I have no problem coming back to sign, even if you sent me a cover letter." And that's strong, because we're in the stats, but at the same time in the human, and completely aligned with our expectations of independent companies. And I agree, it has a lot of value. And that's what we said in the preamble about the unpaid.

We see unpaid employees, I have two structures. They have the same number of members, even, I'm not going to say geographical situation because it sometimes adds to the micro parameters, but in appearance, in any case, these two clubs are extremely close that we could easily compare. They do not have the same level of unpaid employees and yet they are addressed to the same client typology. What fundamentally changes is the relationship between the staff and the manager with, because planting the company X, it does not pose any problem.

Fabien is nice, I like the teams. It's clear. I said it's clear for Fabien. The little coffee, the five minutes and the little coffee with two or three members every two or three days, it has an impact. It's a little bigger. It's an indirect impact. But it's clear. But it plays, because we see the percentage of a paid. Typically in Sporting, we have a percentage

a screen dedicated to the screening. It's not. There's only that on it. It's really trying to understand and follow your phases of rejection, of rejection typology in time to tell you, I do actions that impact that, positive or negative. And we have a health cursor. There is a certain percentage, we consider that

you have too much opposition. There is potentially a problem. What are you talking about? Are you anticipating it? No, we don't anticipate it, but in fact, you have this vision of... Because in fact, often, you mix all your financial data. In fact, there is a financial data which, according to us, which is treated a little differently, it's the SEPA, it's the collection. Because you have customers who mix the collection and the bank cards.

And you have advantages and disadvantages in both. And on the selection, we think it's interesting to know every month what typology of rejection you have. Opposition, unpaid, even the positive evolution of your actions in terms of communication. And so you have to have these curves lowered. We're going to give you an indicator. Typically, you have more than 5% of rejection.

5% of region, we consider that you're above what should be done. It's rather below 5%. 2%, you're a club that's pretty healthy. Between 2 and 5, you're pretty standard, from what we see. More than 5, there's something to do. You can pull this percentage down, that's for sure. And so we're going to give these indicators in the software, because we think it's important, and that it's retention, in fact. It's money that goes...

I would be curious to see the impact of the card payment link automatically sending to the unpaid. I think that's a very interesting stat. I could give you, I have a more global vision. I have it in amounts. I had looked last time, it was the amount we recovered every month.

but mixed between all the rooms. So it's a value that is difficult to give you like that. It's tens of thousands of euros. So even if you divide that by a thousand rooms, it's still a lot. Super interesting. I don't know if we went around Sportigo. We won't be able to go around the time of the podcast. No, I think we've covered the topics. I think that was the idea.

Fabien, do you want to do your little Jamy, strategic block, subscription to the channel ? Do you want me to do it ?

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positive to tell us that we are in the right direction, that we have the right partners, the right people who come to give the right value. So I think that if you are there, at this point in the podcast, it's that already, you like it a lot, otherwise you would have already stopped for a while. And so if that's the case, play the game, it's the only way, it doesn't cost you anything, but for us it's super important.

Let's go back to Dan. Before we move on to your theme, mindset, I just wanted to ask two questions that I liked. So you know that we are an independent network. So, little question, what do you admire in the independents? Do you have a management profile that has marked you?

Do you have any common points between these different managers that you would like to highlight? For me, the managers with whom I have a lot of admiration and with whom I like to talk a lot, it's a detail, it can only be seen in the video, it's when I get to see the eye that is blinking a little. That is to say that I see the person who works day and night, who has a

who struggle in general because it's not an easy job, and clearly, we have to say it. And when we start talking about vision, we ask ourselves, it's someone who projects himself, in fact. It's not someone who is in his problems, but who has this vision of saying, "Anyway, we're going to make it, we're going to solve it, it's not a problem, it's where are we going, how are we going to do it?" And who has this desire to change, to challenge. And that, for me, is one of the moments that I prefer, and that's where I'm really going to spend a lot of time with the managers and try to see how we can accompany them. Because in fact,

All giants don't have this approach, and it comes from, as we said, it's only different profiles. But it's these people who help us to treat the product. And we were talking earlier about the interest of working with people on a daily basis, with an alignment of values. And that, for me, is really what boosts me the most when I have this type of exchange with giants.

Fabien, what do you admire? I really like what he said with this little woman. It makes me think of Stallone. The eye of the tiger. It's a bit like that. There's a bit of that thing. I don't know if you see what I mean. You see the person who is there and who wants it to move. It's also this change that brings the same content to two managers.

And in fact, one of them saw everything, understood everything, he knows everything. And in fact, he says to himself, I don't listen too much because finally, 90%, it's been 10 years, I've been doing it already. But how are the results you have today? Because suddenly, next to you, you have a manager who may have better results because he's going to get the 3-4% optimization for his system. And that's where I often see this eye that shines.

You told me what you admire about managers. Now, what annoys you about them? I don't know if "annoyed" is the right word, but I think there are things that we should be able to change in terms of mindset. It's focusing on the little problems. What I see sometimes is that we do things...

I don't live, even if I try from time to time to put myself in the skin, but I don't have the adherent who comes to break my feet and who insists, who insists, who insists. I think the manager must have a role of umbrella, as well towards his teams as towards the exchanges that he will have with my team, because otherwise we lose focus on the right subjects. And sometimes I will have people who will delegate all this charge

to Sportigo and say: "I took you to not have any problem, I don't want any problem, I don't want to do anything, you do everything and I don't want any problem anymore." Well, we would all like life to go like that, unfortunately no. It's not this service that we offer today. We obviously propose to accompany, to limit problems, to be reactive in case of problems. For me, it's the number one value. If there is a problem, we will work it together, we will tackle it.

We will never say that there will never be a problem. It's not true. There will be problems. The idea is how we will behave when there is a problem. That's the importance of a good partner for me. When everything is going well, it's easy. And there is a bit of this approach that exists. Some managers say to themselves: "But in fact, I took you to manage payments, so I want zero payment problems. I took you to manage this, I want zero problems with that. I have a client who can't get in the door. It's a problem. Find a solution. "

I don't know how to solve this problem. I don't know how to handle it. Sometimes we get into details and it becomes a subject that will be redundant for weeks on a point on which unfortunately I can't find a solution. And you Sam? If I'm annoyed, it's the managers. It's their fucking resilience.

Because in fact, a manager who is ultra resilient, is someone who will insist without taking a step back and who will maybe spend 10, 15, 20 years struggling for not much. Whereas sometimes, just by taking a step back, you connect to an ecosystem, to

that allow you to gain considerable time. And I saw too many managers change completely their trajectory because at some point they said to themselves: "I'm a fucking hard worker, I know how to move forward, but what are the results behind it?" And so I saw managers change their trajectory just because they made top decisions, because at some point they had this ability to question themselves too. And that's super hard, especially when you've been doing the same thing for 20 years.

So for me, it's really this resilience that is positive, but which can also ultimately harm the club's growth. It's not taking a step back from time to time, that's what you mean. It's in execution. Yes, that's it. Exactly. And then, in fact, I see too many managers who actually earn a thousand bucks a month and it's been 15 years and they continue.

And then, great, passion, etc. But at some point, if you want to change your results, you're going to have to change a little bit the reading that you have of things, the energy you put in, where, what are the priorities. And to be able to see that, you have to connect to the right people. It's interesting what you say, because it makes me think, I don't want to go back, it makes me think of a point that we often imagine, it's the firefighter mode. So when we're in firefighter mode, all day long, we're one of the little flames. But at some point, it's better to leave a little flame.

Because you know this little flame. You're used to turning it off. To take this step back, to have a vision of the whole.

How do I manage to make it not come back? How do I manage to manage that? And it's this back-up that in general, you can actually help yourself with. Because it's an exercise that is very easy to say when you're not there. But by taking a step back, you see that the gas pipe was here, it was enough to close. We continue the image, but that's it. The idea is to say to yourself, how is it? And that's what allows you to move forward.

Totally. But you know what? I made some good progress in the ecosystem of the network because I fed myself, actually. By being with people, with trainers, I understood things. I didn't even know the stats at three months of starting out. And when you know it, you analyze it and you say, how can I do better? And you have...

incredible solutions that come out of the ground. But wait, do that, you don't do it. They took me for a fool when I didn't do it. And I put it in place and it changes everything. It's like when I talk to one of my coaches who tells me: "But you don't take creatine, you're crazy, you don't take creatine." But why? And then you analyze, you're going to watch the best podcasts on creatine and then you realize that there is a fucking impact on the body or on the brain. But hey, that's it. So for that, you have to know the right people.

Thank you for your transparent feedback. We will move on to the theme. Just before preparing this podcast, we wrote to you, we asked you, what is your favorite subject? And you told us, I love problem solving. It's weird for an engineer. And so we're going to open this theme, problem management. You just talked a little bit about what you admire at G1.

I like to compare that to my... I'm not an athlete of high level, but sport has been a key element since I was a child.

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I was particularly interested in was the direct confrontation with the impact that a problem can have, badly anticipated. And so, I'll give you an example. You're doing MMA, you're facing a person.

The MMA is the best example. Why? Because you're going to fight with people who have 10 handboxes, but who have never fought on the ground. They're going to have 20 kilos more than you, because you're training, you're not doing an official fight. And in fact, you have in front of you a person that you have to beat, you have to win, you have to...

but which will necessarily cause you a problem. And the idea is how do I solve this problem? And so you have to be analytical, except that you have to be analytical in a situation where you literally take costs. So in terms of

It's easier to think about things on your computer than to be facing someone who is 10 cm taller than you. I'm not that tall, but there are a lot of people who are 10 cm taller than me. And who hit you, even if you're in training. So it's about how to find a solution to this problem. And I've always loved working from that angle when I was doing combat sports.

And I remember my teacher saying "You're the only one who laughs all the time, you get laminate but you laugh" Because I was like "How did I manage to do that? Ah I found something, I'll bring it to the ground, he'll do..."

And it's really something that always challenges me, and the fact of solving a problem. And it's in this resolution that something that seems impossible, if I continue the parallel with combat sports, it seems impossible to win against this person, or to get out of it without too much effort, all the better.

I have to solve the problem and I have to solve it quickly. I have to solve it with easy situations because I can't go and get a weapon to get out of it. I have to solve it in a situation with strong constraints

And quickly. And that's also why I really liked working for a long time in market finance. Not so much for market finance. It's not a field that interests me particularly. On the other hand, it's a field where there is a regulation that is super strong. And finding solutions in an ecosystem where the regulation is very strong

It's much harder. It's much harder because the game field is restricted. When you have an idea, you have to control it, it has to be manageable. And so we realize in general that the best ideas, the most applicable, are always the simplest. You have to do things that are easy. And it's true for a manager. For the moment, there is a parallel. When I talk to managers who have a catalog of offers, they tell me, but it's not possible in your software, I have 300 offers, it's not showing well. No, the problem is not the software, it's

You do something that's too complicated. And it's always trying to work like that. And we reflect it in everyday life. And professionally too. So yeah, for me, it's a state of mind. And it's something that moves me. And when we succeeded in a big challenge, something that seemed impossible to us, and we did it,

quite easily. In any case, the previous thought was long, the approach was long, but in any case, in the end we found a solution. That's a step I can't answer for hours. So the key is to simplify, to make decisions that are simple to apply? For me, you have to make decisions, you have to do things that are simple and you have to try. It's funny because there are a lot of parallels between the two of you. You have the same sentences.

Fabien often tells us: "I want simple things, simple things." And you too, did you have this vision in relation to boxing, to have to solve a problem you had in front of you and if you didn't solve it, it could hurt the jaw? No, I never saw it from that angle. I think it would have helped me.

I think that would have helped me. I was very instinctive on boxing. It takes up what you said earlier, to be so focused on a subject. In combat sports, if you say...

So you have an idea of the biggest problem you had to solve with Sportigo?

Or the question in the corner? Be careful, it comes to you. After two years of podcasting. In fact, I was thinking. I was thinking for you, for the club too. I think the hardest, in fact, was to ask for the vision. That means that, in fact, we are in an ecosystem where people expect something from us. And in fact, we decided not to give them. Not to give them in the same way that they are used to taking it. And what was complicated, it's how to explain it easily.

It's a real challenge to explain easily, in 30 minutes, to a manager what Sportigo does. And that's what we had to work a lot on, on the speech, to be sure that... And our best reward is when, at the end of a demonstration, we have, and we often have, and so we are happy, "Thank you, that was very clear." And if we have that, we know that we focused on the right topics. And that's why I said that sometimes we don't hesitate on an hour of demonstration, to spend 30 minutes, to ask 30 minutes of questions.

understand the person, understand their project, understand their pain, understand where we should have action so that the 30 minutes after, it's 30 minutes that have a clear impact on their needs. Whereas I clearly have something to talk about an hour of the software. I could take an hour and say, well, I'm going to party in the future, because it's a new word that I learned, the party in the future. So I can do this, I can do that, I can do that, I can do that. I don't have an impact. And so it's how to succeed in having the right impact with the interlocutor that we have in front of us.

It's strong. I think that problem solving is a real topic. I think that French people tend to want to... I'm calm, French people. No, but we tend to want to script everything. To script, to make hypotheses and all. It's difficult to simplify. It's very difficult. It's very hard to make things simple. In general, when you know how to simplify, it's because you know the subject perfectly.

And that makes sense. And that makes sense, yes. And often, because to know it perfectly, it has to make sense. You have to be passionate. The subjects that I know how to simplify, are the subjects on which I spent the most time and complexity. And if you're not able to... I mean, when I do interviews, what did you do? Explain to me in two sentences what your company did.

And you realize that this spirit of synthesis, this spirit of concision, is also something that will help you to work on the... Today I'm not making the right example because I talk a lot, but in any case the spirit of synthesis and concision is something that gives a commandment to your reflection mechanism and that will help you to find things simply. I think that the strategic times that you often mention in podcasts

must be useful for that. These are the times when you ask a problem, you take the height and you try to find the solution that is simple. But you see, we could also take, when you manage a fitness club or any other company, a little moment from time to time, once a year, to update yourself on how I present my company to a person who asks you the question. You turn that around, you think, you simplify, so that you can then super instinctively

Because if you don't do this work, you lose the person when you explain it. It was in the investors of...

from Y Combinator who explained that he presented a company in fact the time of an elevator lift in less than a minute, you had to explain your company to the CEO who was there or the investor who was there and that's maybe key that you see. But it's very interesting because today it's true that it can also when you're managing a fitness club, is the vision of a franchised club will be the same as an independent club?

We can see right away that doing this work on the mission, it all comes down to communication, experience, support. Even between two independent clubs, I think you have to align yourself to your promise, your values, your mission.

And then, thanks to all that, you don't have to explain that your club is a fitness club where you do collective classes and where you do this and that and that. You still come back to your list of stuff. But in fact, what problem do you answer and what is your target to really talk to your interlocutor ?

And that's how it works. I think that in a half hour of workshop, everyone can have their key phrase, spread it to their sports advisors, so that when a person enters the club, they can explain directly why this club is different from most of the clubs that they visited before. You have this simplicity and you always have to get attached to your actions. We were talking earlier about a vision at several stages. And so you have your North Star. And in fact...

Where are you going to bring your club? What do you want to do with your club? You have to put in the right ways, but the path you're going to take will evolve by listening to everything that's happening. And when you make a decision, reassure yourself: "Do I solve my problems that will allow me to reach my vision?" Am I not solving a problem that is not a problem because it is completely uncorrelated to my strategy? And you also have this thing of: "Do I ask myself the right questions

And do I put my intensity, my energy in the right place? And by always catching up to myself, saying, OK, I want to go there. I don't know how I'm going to go, but I'm going to go big or small like that. If I go too far on the side, clearly I'm getting away. Maybe it's not necessary. Super. Super. I remember a book that I had read when I was away on vacation in Bali. It was aimed at the top, precisely to build...

an agency that was specialized in that, to build their vision for their club. And there was a little exercise, it was a little diagram with a tree and everything. Go type on the internet, there will be three keywords: ambition, values, and I don't remember the last one, it will allow you to build this vision and give you a framework. And behind that, it will help you for years. The mission maybe? Mission, values, mission? I don't remember, I just have to say nonsense.

But I found this book too interesting. I think he forgot to ask me the question, so it's good. What did I have to ask you? I don't know. You asked Dan a question up there and I forgot. The hardest challenge. The hardest challenge for your club. The hardest challenge was... I'm going to try to put it in two moments. A moment when it was difficult in my club and maybe today. The moment when it's difficult in my club, it's the moment when you manage everything. From the house to the classes, the reception, the sale. Everything.

everything, buying the club's products. And it's very difficult because you don't have the means to have a person who comes to help you, or two or three. And so you have to manage everything and yet you can't get out of it. The finitization is pretty good, but you can't be everywhere. And so you can't get results. And so I asked myself the question, what are you doing? And either you stop, or you learn to drive.

So it was the hardest moment, I decided to take 1 or 2 hours of coaching per week, which was 50 euros per hour. I was paid 1 salary per 2, so it was very hard, it was a very hard decision. I thought to myself, you have 1 month to take these 2 hours, you bring more than what you were bringing with the coaching. So that was a decision that was courageous for me, stressful, but that was a difficult moment that I took and that allowed me to grow.

maybe in the short term. So, a second very difficult thing that I had to deal with was to separate myself from quality people in my club when I had financial problems with the judicial reform following the Covid. That was very difficult because having to tell people who give their all, who are aligned with the values of your team that you have no choice if you don't make that decision

We won't be able to continue tomorrow. That was very difficult. But the nice thing about it is that Aurélie, the person you were separated from at the time, is now the person who listens to you if you contact Rezophyt. Yes, it's the person who is in charge of selecting the manager who integrates the network. So it's the nice thing. I think we're coming to the end of this podcast. If you had one last word to say to the managers who are listening to us, what would you say to them?

Well, first of all, thank you for listening to me until the end. I hope that there will be some value that will be able to come out of this exchange. I had a very good time, it was very nice. We had the opportunity to exchange, but not to see each other. So it's a double, very good opportunity. I would recommend, and it's true, it's to exchange. It's to exchange, not to lock yourself in, not to be afraid to ask questions, not to be afraid to ask yourself if we do things correctly.

Not necessarily listening to everything either. It means that you have to find the right balance between opening up, asking a lot of questions, but taking the time to analyze and ask yourself if the feedback you get is well aligned with what you want to do. In fact, being fully aware of what you are doing and knowing why you are doing things. But for that, you have to open up to exchange with as many people as possible.

Thank you Dan for all the value you delivered. Thank you Seb. Thank you Fab. See you soon.