🟣Cómo hombres desaparecidos en México terminan esclavizados por el narcotráfico

Families of missing persons post missing person posters

at the

World Cup opening stadium. A week before the tournament in

Mexico, football jerseys are mixed

with the faces of those who are still

missing. Today the country has over

130,000 missing persons.

95% of the cases have occurred in the

last two decades.

My name is Nicole Gaise. I will be

joining you today on DW News for

analysis, and I have the pleasure of greeting

Gabriela Citroni, president of the

UN working group on

enforced or involuntary disappearances,

and Marcela Turati, a Mexican journalist

who has just published an investigation

into disappearances without a fifth element.

LAAP for both of them. Thank you so much for

joining us at Deutele.

Marcela, I'd like to start with you.

One of the most shocking things about your

research is that it forces us to rethink our

understanding of the

disappeared, because in this case it's not about

people found in a

mass grave, but rather enslaved men working for criminal organizations in the middle of the Traumara mountain range

in northern Mexico. Please

tell us more about

your research and how

this network operates.

Hello, thank you very much.

Yes. And this investigation confirms what we

've already heard from

many families of

missing persons: that there are

missing persons who

are not dead, but are being

forced to work for criminal groups. And

well, in the case we documented

it is in the Tarahumara mountains, in the north, and

well, they take very poor people

who are looking for work with

false offers and when they take them to the work they were

promised, there are already

armed men who don't let them leave, and they

force them to plant Mapola and

marijuana and they have a series of punishments

and tortures. One of them spent at least

3 years there, but they said that there were

several fields, that they have several

owners, right? Hey, and if you escape from

one, you end up in another and another. What we do

know is that these

types of camps lasted for many years, and we also know that

this happens in other

parts of the country.

In other words, a model that also takes advantage

of a culture of

temporary work that is very common in Mexico, victims

marked by poverty, addictions and

vulnerability. Please

tell us about the conditions

in which those people live in the

camps you mentioned.

Well, what the

survivors we met and

were able to interview told us, and also what we

read in the court records of

the Chihuahua Prosecutor's Office, is that they

worked, as they say, from one rooster to the next

, right? From dawn until

dusk, they were given only two

meals a day, but very meager; they were

given a substance that was like water

with corn.

and a little sugar to keep them

working all the time, and there was no

privacy. Uh, they could go into

the stream to clean themselves once a month.

Uh, they kept them under punishment all the time

, they drowned them in a river if they

wanted to escape or if something went wrong.

Sometimes they would throw them into a ravine and

getting out of there, which is an area that

is, well, unguarded, but

deadly. I mean, some of them lived

in caves, that was very important, they had them

living and sleeping in caves,

and

well, some mention that they had

dogs, others that if you wanted to escape, you would

reach another camp and from there they would send you back,

or you would reach the

nearest town, Yokibo, and the people there would let them know to come and get

you. Or you

could also die of hunger if you didn't

know the way, or be bitten by

wild animals. Well, it was a

very desperate situation then.

My testimonies speak of hunger,

torture, sexual violence, punishments,

murders, and also show something more

complex: that even many

survivors still clung to the

promise that one day they would be paid and

could return home. Hey Gabriela, I'd like us to move on

to talking about the role

of the State. A

few weeks ago, the UN committee against

enforced disappearances published

a report and called for the crisis of

disappearances in Mexico to be brought before the

General Assembly. The government, for its

part, rejected the report, stating that it

omits important progress made in

recent years. I understand that the committee

and the working group you

work with are different

UN mechanisms, but from your experience

working with Mexico, how do you evaluate the

institutional response to the

disappearances crisis?

Oh, thank you very much.

Actually yes, both the

working group is a

complementary mechanism to the committee you

mentioned and each one

has been

working and getting involved with Mexico in one way or another,

whether through visits or, for example,

with the report you mentioned. It should be

said that Mexico, compared to other

states with which we act or

work, is a state that,

for example, always responds on the international stage

. Now, always

responding doesn't necessarily mean that the

responses are always

complete, but I do want to highlight this

because there are many other states that, for

example, don't even respond to these reports or

other communications, letters of

allegations, or attempts at dialogue. It is

also important to highlight, and to be

honest, this is quite

faithfully reflected in the report of the committee on

enforced disappearances, that Mexico

has been adopting

laws and creating

institutions over the years that work on this issue.

So, the report is quite

detailed in outlining all these

measures, the institutional framework that has

been established. However,

what the report also details is that

despite all that, it remains a

major crisis,

both in terms of numbers and in

terms of impunity. The number of

sentences that have been adopted in response to

that and to phenomena like those

Marcela wrote about, is still a

ridiculous percentage [clears throat]

or at least really very, very

meager. And there's also a whole issue

related to forensics, uh,

let's say what's called the

forensic crisis. The report details all of this,

and it has been quite surprising that

Mexico has denied that everything

in that report can be

considered true. However, what I do

want to say is that the report

ends by saying, and the committee says,

we consider that the situation is of such

gravity and magnitude that we want

the General Assembly to consider it and to

consider whether there is a way to support

Mexico in dealing with

this emergency, whether with

financial or institutional support. The

General Assembly has not yet

considered that, but that is where I

see it and I want to highlight it as such, perhaps

where I hope Mexico will resume its

cooperative attitude with

international mechanisms. I see an

opportunity for him. What it says there is, there's

a problem, let them get support

from the outside.

And what is the reason for the

Mexican government's refusal to work with

international organizations?

I don't think it's a complete refusal,

because it's also important to highlight that

after that report, for example, with

the working group, they have continued to

have communication and exchanges.

So, fortunately, and I want to

emphasize this,

the channel of dialogue remains open, and I do

believe that perhaps they should take a

step back and consider the

request and the demands of the families and the

groups of relatives of the

disappeared, who are also well aware of

all this. What they're saying is something that doesn't

work or isn't enough. Therefore, we should

jointly ask ourselves how to make it

efficient.

And Gabriela, briefly, please,

because Mexico attracts attention because it is often

pointed out for having a

relatively advanced legal framework regarding

disappearances. However,

the results remain very

limited, as you just told us.

Why doesn't a good law in Mexico

necessarily translate into an

effective search, a criminal investigation, and

more justice?

Well, of course. I believe that

the challenge lies precisely in making a

specific diagnosis of why

one of the most sophisticated

institutional frameworks in the world in terms of

enforced disappearance

, including the legislative part,

both at the federal level and in most

states, does not translate

into something more effective? And there can be

multiple reasons. What is needed

now is precisely to analyze why there may

also be differences between

states and to provide

tailored responses to that. What

I don't believe is the most

effective way to deal with that is simply to

pretend that such a problem doesn't exist

. In other words, the numbers are there

to tell us that this problem exists, and

the demands of families, for

decades in some cases, I believe

call us to this reflection.

M. and Marcela, in your research

you point out that the authorities

in this case you mention are 21

men who were rescued in

2019 and as a result of that this

investigation you carried out begins.

Authorities reportedly received complaints

years before that rescue in 2019, and

all testimonies coincided in

describing the same

recruitment and exploitation mechanism.

However,

according to your investigation, only one person was arrested, who was later

released and was

also a victim of the network.

What explains this lack of results?

Well, we see that a lot in

different prosecutor's offices, don't we? Well, we see, and

that's one of the big problems, is

n't it? In Mexico,

many disappearances are not investigated, and

we have a very high level of impunity

for this crime, right? Uh, we have

more than 133,000 missing persons in Mexico

.

There is a figure that we still don't know

because many migrants are not

registered, right? And so we see this,

that is, that very few people

are arrested and are brought to

trial and that the sentence is a

conviction. And in this case, because of

a legal Russia, they had

only arrested the driver of the van where

the people were being taken, right? The

easiest link and all the, I don't know,

this is a network that also requires

money, I mean, it had bosses in each

field, capable, uh, and it obviously has

businessmen, well, never, never anyone,

businessmen from Mapola, right? about

marijuana, because nobody ever paid for

that. And this is what we see, it is the

constant, the continuous and what the

searching families always say, we don't

want them to look for our children. What

also catches our attention in this

case is the lack of prevention. If some

reporters were able to find out where

people are recruited and were

also able to find many of the victims from

different years and different times, it seems

that the authorities cannot, do not

prevent, but also when they do, that

is, they do not investigate and when they do investigate they do not

punish. That's the constant we

see, and families always ask to

know where their family member is, right? And

also that there be justice, and justice

is absent.

And it's noteworthy because it's not a

new problem in Mexico;

the existence

of camps linked to

drug trafficking has been known since the 1970s. In fact, in the 1980s,

the case of Rafael Caro Quintero's El Búfalo ranch

already showed the use of

workers recruited through deception and

subjected to

exploitative conditions. Gabriela, do you think that

search mechanisms and

public policies are prepared to

identify these types of situations or are they

focused on the search for

missing persons who are dead?

Well, at least in

terms of legislation, protocols

and

tools that have supposedly been

adopted by the institutions

in charge, the concept and notion of

searching for the living has been left paralyzed in

these instruments. We're going back to pretty much the

same thing. Uh, if you ask me and if I give

a class, give me an example of good

legislation that recognizes that principle,

Mexico has good legislation. The

question is whether the implementation of that

and whether the execution is equally effective and

definitely

the challenges that are

highlighted here are still absolutely

relevant. I think that's partly due to

the magnitude of the phenomenon.

I think we also need to focus more on the

topic of

context analysis. Here we were

talking about the Sierra Taraumara, but

for example, other information has also reached

international institutions

about places and

very detailed information about places

where there would be

forced recruitment camps. In other words, if this has

reached international institutions

and the profile of those who would be there is

really a very typical profile, that is, a

certain age, a certain gender of people, then

I think the

State's intervention should be designed in such a way

that it understands what the pattern, the

context, is. There are other states where the

profile of missing persons is

a little different. For example, they are

young people, girls, teenagers of a certain

age. There too, the search would have to

be designed understanding what

the characteristics are.

From what we have seen, there is no lack of

understanding, that is, it is understood. This

is stipulated in the law. What's missing is

how to implement it and how to react

quickly,

because the search is not the same as

searching for people who are alive and searching for

mass graves. They set and pose challenges,

different challenges. And you, Marcela, what have you

seen during these years of

research? Is there an intention on the part

of the State to move in that direction?

What is your experience?

W the state, I mean, it seems like they

're going through this problem every six years

, right? And they keep inventing

solutions that already exist. Just recently,

just last week, the week before last,

the Secretary of the Interior presented to us

how they were going to conduct the

forensic search, and that's what I've

heard, and that was one of the things

I said to her, I mean, I've already

heard this, I mean, how are they only now going to

do a forensic diagnosis, how are they only now

going to tell us how many unidentified bodies

are in the morgues. That

investigation was also done by

journalists, that is, the figure that exists was

given in fifth element LAP, 72,000

unidentified bodies in the morgues at

the end of the six-year term of López

Obrador, of the accumulated ones, right? From those

of the previous six-year terms. We were

also the ones who published the first issue on

clandestine graves,

uh, everything that should be the state's responsibility, I

mean, many of the things that

the state should be doing, well, we do them through

organizations, journalists, academia,

and we see that they continue to present the

same thing, right? They are going to ask all

states to enter into the registry the

number of unidentified bodies they

have and the number of reports. I

think I've been hearing that for 12

years. So, when I see that they

presented us with the same thing and we're only going to do a

national exhumation plan, I

mean, then we're not going to start until the third year of

Chinbound, or they're going to

start, and it's the same officials

too, many of them from the last six-year term

, right?, who are doing

this. I asked them what they were going to do with

the people who had already been recruited. We

saw it at the Isaguirre ranch, we see it

now in the Taraumara region, in these

trafficking networks, that is, of many young people

who are being taken away. I just went to the

Jalisco bus station,

where many of these

young people who are hooked through

social media are taken away. Well, the municipality has

tried to do things, but it's not

visible, I mean, there's no sign of

prevention or any way to rescue them. A is

in the question, I mean, okay, you

're talking about identifying bodies.

Uh, we know that many morgues and the

National Center for Human Identification are

already full and that there isn't

enough identification, and on top of that they're

still denying the support that could

come from the UN, and they're also denying

the situation, right? He's in a

denialist position, saying that there are no more

forced disappearances, when every

day we see cases

related to municipal police,

sometimes also to the navy, and

sometimes to the army, but it's a, I do

n't know, it's like a denial,

an anger against

international institutions as well. Obviously,

we have Trump on top of us saying that everything

is terrorism, and I also understand the

position of the Mexican government, since

what Trump wants is to

intervene. They're accusing him of

terrorism, aren't they? To

criminal groups. And then, but

Mexico's stance of denying the problem and also

not meeting with, not listening to the

searching mothers since the previous six-year term,

who have not been given any appointment by

the president, well, it

leaves much to be desired and these are very bad

signs, aren't they?

Yes, you two mention the serious

forensic crisis that exists in Mexico.

The country has accumulated tens of thousands of

unidentified bodies and human remains,

one of the main

obstacles to the right to truth

in Mexico. Gabriela, I would like us to continue

talking about the communities

you have mentioned, because it is one of

the particularities of Mexico and that

role that the families of

the disappeared persons, the

organizations, have assumed.

Often it is the mothers themselves and the

collectives who drive the

searches, find the graves and

pressure the authorities to

investigate. From your experience, how do

you evaluate the work of these groups? Well, I

have to express my

sincerest admiration and real respect

for the enormous and courageous work carried out by these

groups,

even in some

isolated places with families of

missing persons, even in the face of

obstacles and situations

of risk and reprisals, attacks.

The number of mothers searching for their children who are found

murdered each year is

truly staggering. So, it's

not just about knowing or putting your own pain

at the service of others, it's about taking on a

role that ultimately wouldn't

belong to you.

Excuse me for interrupting, but do you think there's

a risk that this will become

normalized, that families will end up

doing the work that should be done

by institutions?

To a certain extent it has already normalized, and I

think the challenge there is to find the

middle ground. There is a motto that many

families in Mexico use, which

is "without families, nothing." And this is

correct, because there are also

other states where it is said, no,

families cannot participate in

the search in any way and it becomes something very

opaque which is also not good

for the families. So, the

point here is to find a way for the

State to assume its

corresponding responsibility, which is to search and investigate.

However, allow families to

participate and contribute without placing the entire

responsibility on their shoulders. That's kind of

the balance that needs to be

found.

And Marcela, just days before the World Cup,

family groups are denouncing that

the authorities have withdrawn

missing person posters. Do you have any details about

how these groups are organizing themselves

?

Well, it's been several months now, hasn't it?

Uh, for example, well, they're announcing

activities, there are going to be demonstrations. On

the day of the Mexico vs.

South Africa match on June 11, there will be

demonstrations here in

Mexico City. We know that

groups are coming from all over the country, well, not from

all over the country, well, from several places, yes, from

several places. Uh, we've also seen

images, right?, of all sorts of things from various areas

of Jalisco, right?, uh, from Guadalajara,

where all the posts are covered up and

everything is covered with wanted posters. And

there are also some groups that have started this

campaign, right?, to wear various things, I've already

seen several families who had

their Mexico t-shirts made,

right? and they have a photo of their relative.

There are several, they are being announced as

several venues and several activities

that same day, not all near the

stadium that used to be called the

Azteca stadium, uh not all near there, but there will be

in the center, in different

places, important demonstrations and what

the families want is for it to be seen,

right?, that Mexico is a country where

people are disappearing and that this

reality has been hidden. Yes, there have been

many complaints for some time now,

and we see that

many of the posters, many

of the wanted posters that were

around the city, are being removed. Besides, it's being painted, at

least Mexico City is being

painted, right? But in Jalisco and in

several states we see that all the time,

almost behind the searchers,

people come to remove the missing persons posters,

as if trying to deny this reality,

right? So that it can't be seen. But it's going to be

interesting. Today we

have a project called "Where do

the disappeared go?" and we know, I mean, we're already

forming teams and everything to

cover different places because

we know it's going to be, as they say, the

World Cup of the disappeared, right?

The World Cup of the disappeared, a

very important topic, disappearance, in

fact, is often described as one of the

most complex crimes with the highest

levels of impunity in the world.

Gabriela Citroni, president of the

UN working group on

enforced or involuntary disappearances,

and Marcela Turati, journalist in Mexico. Both of you

, thank you so much for this

interesting analysis, and to everyone who

followed us, remember that you

can also find us on all

social media and

podcast platforms. Thank you for joining us

on DW Actualidad for analysis. My name

is Nicole G. Until next time. so that

they are very well.