Give Me 15 Minutes... I'll Save You 25+ Years Of Feeling Lonely, Depressed & Lost | Dr. Gabor Maté

how can somebody escape the victim

mindset well so if I was talking to a

person like that I would say first of

all I get it cuz I've been to that place

myself I mean I've had moments when I

didn't think life was worth living and I

imagined my own suicide never that I

planned it or I was going to do it but I

kind of fantasized it you know I've been

to those places so I get it secondly I

would say I feel that the world's

against me that's not a feeling it's a

belief okay if you have that belief it's

because at some point you had that

experience but you're not having that

experience right now that experience was

that of a child who was helpless and

alone so what showing up in your belief

system is not your present situation but

your childhood emotional experience and

like I said before in the present we can

heal no matter what happened then we can

heal in the present so the first thing I

would ask a person like that is are you

willing to consider that healing is

possible for you or have you totally

given up by the way

a person who's totally given up wouldn't

be telling you this because when people

talk this way whether they know it or

not they're asking for help if they

weren't asking for help they wouldn't

say anything they just slink off of

their own and isolate themselves and as

some people do so anybody who speaks the

way that you just cited is already

whether they know it or not they're

looking for help and if that's the case

then they can be helped and so that's

the second point is don't try and solve

this on your own we're human beings

we're creatures that evolved in

connection and Community you're not

alone with this it may feel like you're

alone and you certainly might feel

lonely but you're not in fact alone

Millions feel exactly the same way and

they're not crazy and you're not crazy

those beliefs and feelings are normal

responses to abnormal

circumstances so that's how I begin

working with the people with a person

with that mindset and I guess to take

this one step further you know I've

heard you talk about like that one of

the main problems with society today is

that a lot of people who have mental

health struggles and they're struggling

with situations like this where they

feel stuck and they can't get out of

their own way at times they feel like

people are against them they're dealing

with trauma and then they you know they

might go see somebody who's not trained

in trauma they don't have the experience

like how can somebody begin to take that

path and make sure that they're finding

somebody that is like you know trained

in that and then also that they're able

to self-regulate themselves when needed

well that's a huge question because

unfortunately look I've been through

medical training I'm a physician and uh

the average physician never hears any of

the stuff I just talked about the

average psychiatrist doesn't get any

training in trauma not in they learned

something with PTSD which is a specific

form of trauma but they learn they don't

learn about the traumatic basis of

depression and anxiety and ADHD and they

they learn nothing about it so that it's

very difficult to find good help within

the medical system

now many therapists also don't get any

such training there's a lot of

therapists that are designed only to

change your beliefs and your behaviors

but not to address the fundamental

reasons for those behaviors so a lot of

psychologists trained in CBT cognitive

behavioral therapy or dialectical

behavioral therapy a lot of them are not

really and I know this believe me I know

this they just don't know much about or

anything about trauma then they can't

help you with the fundamental wound that

you're carrying they can help you with

the manifestation

and that's not that's not useless but

they can't help you heal at your core so

then there are therapies that are deeper

than that there is um body based

therapies such as somatic

experiencing developed by my friend and

teacher Peter Dr Peter LaVine there's

sensory motor Psychotherapy developed by

P Ogden there's EMDR that works for some

people there's internal family systems

or IFS devel my friend and colleague Dr

Richard Schwarz this compassionate

inquiry which is based on my work and I

train therapists in that method there

are others other names I could mention

there's Larry heler Lawrence heler in

his work and his students so what you

have to look for is somebody who's

trauma informed and is willing to work

with you not just on your behaviors but

on your core wounds of which the

behaviors are symptoms yeah thanks for

bringing that up because like my own

experience I mean I've struggled off and

on with my mental health over the years

I mean I've told you a bit about my

story in our last conversation and you

know when I would go there wasn't like a

lot of talk about my childhood there was

it was just like all right you're having

some anxiety cool like here's a pill and

then I would just take it and I would

just think okay this is going to cure my

anxiety and then I would realize like

it's not really I'm still getting

anxiety I'm still struggling like what's

going on with this and it wasn't until I

understood like my past and my trauma

and how that was all related related to

what I was experiencing in the present

that things were able to change and so

let's just say that that somebody has

now they found somebody they're

comfortable with that's helping them

heal their trauma and change their

present and their current behaviors and

patterns and that sort of thing and then

they go down weeks down the road months

down the road and they're on the up and

up but get triggered or they experience

a situation where they're like oh my

gosh like I thought I was getting better

why is this coming up what's your advice

to people who are dealing with triggers

when they're on the road to uh recovery

from trauma well there's two ways to ask

that question that you just raised why

is this coming up is that a question

what is it actually what is this

teaching me no when you say why is this

coming up like that that's not a

question it's a statement it's a

statement that says this shouldn't be

happening to me okay now you ain't going

to learn anything that way but if you

actually ask it hm I wonder why this is

coming up no you can learn something if

I came to you and said why are you doing

this how would that feel to you I get

probably get defensive and I would just

feel like a little ashamed exactly but

what if I said hm I wonder why you doing

this it would force me to think a little

bit and practice the pause and say well

I don't know if it would force you but

at least it would invite you right right

right right yeah now so that's the first

point is is how should we ask this

question it's a good question but we

have to ask it as a question not as a

statement of resentment or resistance

that's the first point the second point

is use the word trigger really great

word now if I showed you a rifle with a

trigger how big a part of the rifle is

the trigger it's very small very small

for that trigger to set off anything

that what there has to be there has to

be a mechanism to deliver ammunition

there has to be ammunition there has to

be an explosive charge when I get

triggered let's say you say something to

me and I get triggered what you say it

was a very small little thing I'm the

one who's got the explosive charge and

the ammunition

you didn't cause me to do that if I

didn't have that ammunition and

explosive charge you could say whatever

you want and I just sit here saying hm I

wonder why he's saying that you know so

triggering is a great opportunity to

learn when you get triggered you could

either focus on resent and resist the

trigger or you could say huh what was I

still carrying inside that I haven't

looked at yet that I haven't resolved

yet so if you know I used to tell the

story you know being married to 50 years

now my wife and I so let's say 20 years

ago um I might ask to sleep with her and

she would say no you know which is

nobody can ever believe that that ever

happened but it did used to happen you

know and how would I respond I would

respond by going to a rage and curling

into a fetal position and not even

wanting to live okay now the trigger is

the no that she said the explosive is my

belief that I'm being rejected and

Abandoned and not wanted and that I'm an

infant and helpless which is what

happened to me otherwise if she says no

oh I can get curious are you tired or

have I done something to turn you off or

is there something youone we can talk

about or I can just be disappointed and

let go of it and say okay well thanks

you know there'll be another day so how

I respond is not dependent on the

external event is dependent on what

charge I'm carrying so triggers are

wonderful times to learn about yourself

so if you ask a question not why did I

react that way but huh I wonder why I

reacted that way now there's a whole lot

of learning to be done so that's what I

call Compassionate curiosity where we

actually curious about ourselves but not

in a self- judgmental way but in a

compassionate way oh this brought up the

pain of rejection obviously I'm still

carrying that that wound well let's look

at that cuz it's not happening in the

present I'm glad you brought that up and

that we have to change the language and

how we talk to ourselves during those

moments because for me personally I'm

extremely hard on myself so that like

voice that you were saying like you know

like why is this happening or why is it

doing this to me like that's something

that I've said in my life very very

frequently because of the fact that I'm

really hard on myself I sometimes when

something doesn't go my way or when I

get triggered or bothered by something

even though I've done a lot of work on

myself I'm I'm so hard on myself because

I'm like gosh like I'm better than this

I know I should be doing better than

this so that was really eye opening for

me so thanks for sharing that well and

you know that voice in your head that

tells you all that stuff in this book I

actually talk about getting into a

relationship with that voice because

this is what I call a stupid friend you

know because at some point that voice

came along when you were quite small see

if you were suffering as a kid or things

weren't going well there's two

assumption the child could make

unconsciously what one is the world is

dangerous my parents don't know how to

love me value me I can't trust anybody

I'm all alone I'm going to suffer in

this world the other belief

unconsciously is there's something wrong

with me and maybe if I work hard enough

I can fix it now which belief is more

protective for the child do you think

the second one is more protective

exactly so it came along as kind of a

friend to keep you going it's a friend I

say it's a stupid friend the reason I'm

joking when I call it stupid but the

stupidity comes in cuz it doesn't learn

that you're no longer that child it

keeps giving you the same message so my

suggestion Doug is next time you hear

that voice say hello to it and say thank

you you know what because ask yourself

how old is that voice I mean what how

old were you when it first came along I

mean I was young because I remember

there was this idea that I developed

about myself from when I was a child

that I wasn't good enough because I

wasn't picked for sports teams I got

yelled at a lot so give me an age five

six seven yeah I mean I would say I was

in elementary school I think but let's

call him a seven-year-old this voice is

a seven-year-old kid telling you a story

so say hi to it hello I got it you're

still working to make me better in this

world but you know what relax kid I can

take care of it now you know it it's

this just a little immature little

friend that's all it is it didn't come

along to torment you it came along to

actually protect you right and I think

you're right it's so important to have a

conversation with that voice and then

also change the conversation with that

and then along the lines of like you

know childhood one of the things that my

audience wanted me to talk to you about

more in depth is is like parenting and

that parents are having a hard time

right now I think with their kids

growing up in this world that is hard

you're easily distracted you're easily

addictive you're easily on your screen

all the time like what advice do you

have for parents who are who are raising

kids in this world today so that they

can you know raise them to the best of

their ability it's very difficult ult to

risc is these days because we're not

living in the way that human beings

evolved like every animal evolves in a

certain environment and context and is

suited to that environment and context

if you want to understand elephants

don't study them in a zoo study them out

in uh in the forest or where they live

you know and human beings we no longer

live in the environments even close to

the image we evolved out there in nature

in small groups connected to each other

parenting kids was used to be a group

activity it happened in the tribe in the

clan parents had lots of support kids

spent their whole day around their

parents it wasn't goodbye in the morning

hello in the evening and most of our

time is spent away from each other that

would never used to be the case not

through millions of years and 100

thousands of years now we can't go back

to that life you know nor would anybody

want to necessarily but we have to

understand what we've lost so first of

all you have to understand a few things

understand a few things the great

Buddhist teacher tikad Han who died

about a year ago he said that the

greatest gift a parent can give to their

child is his or her own happiness so

take care of your emotional states

because your kid is sensitive enough to

be downloading your emotional states and

making them their own so if you're

stressed unhappy depressed anxious

addicted believe me your kid is going to

absorb all that and make it about

themselves that there's something wrong

with them so take care of yourself live

a life that you can live with and if you

get the first three years right by the

way you got it made so your kids are

really small consciously make the first

three years as stressfree and as clear

of psychologial dysfunction as possible

that means work on your traumas work on

your relationship with your partner your

spouse that's the first thing beginning

with pregnancy by the way number one

number two understand what the needs of

children are needs of children are for

unconditional loving Acceptance in the

context of a secular relationship where

the child doesn't have to work to make

the relationship work the acceptance and

the regard should be unconditional allow

the child to have all their emotions

what are the emotions are let the child

have them understand them don't force

them to suppress their emotions I'm not

saying be permissive with behaviors I'm

saying don't force the child to suppress

their emotions don't tell them not to be

angry don't tell them to cheer up when

they're sad validate the anger validate

the sadness these are essential brain

circuits for such feelings nature gave

them those for reason allow the child to

experience them that way they can stay

connected to themselves thirdly there's

a need for spontaneous free play out in

nature get the hell away from these

devices don't give a one-year-old an

iPad or a cell phone get rid of the

screens in your house when your kids are

small have a screen in a locked room for

yourself if you need one but don't be

phoning and texting and and emailing

around your kids cuz the message they

get is the devic is more important than

they are don't go for a walk with them

and texting and looking at your cell at

the same time don't give the kids these

devices they've been documenta shown to

interfere with the healthy development

of brain circuits this has been shown on

brain scans so if I was raising kids

today I wouldn't let them near a screen

for years on the other hand I would

encourage them to be outdoors be with

them play with in nature spontaneous

creative play so these are the essential

needs of children I talked about in this

book They're difficult to provide in

this culture cuz if you do any of this

stuff you'll be an outlier cuz all your

friends and all your kids friends

parents will be on their cell phones all

the time so you have to make a decision

not to buy into the false values of this

what I call this toxic culture so that's

some basic advice you know easily said

hard to achieve but at least these are

the goals that we need to be striving

for I wish I had known this stuff when

my kids were small that's