Harrisburg City Zoning Hearing Board Meeting - 11/17/2025

Good evening everyone. Uh time is uh

606. This is the November meeting of the

Harrisburg zoning board. Okay. To my uh

to my right, Mr. James Hob, vice chair.

Um to my left Michael Con, our solicitor

and to his left is

>> Patton

solicitor and representing the city is

the director of planning and some of

Jeff Knight and Miss Cameron. She's

representing the city law department.

Okay. Um myself, I'm the chair cla

this is and I said this in front of city

council. We're a quasi judicial board

which means that we have a we have a

stenographer

because again uh any any statements

anything made uh your appeal process is

up through common police court. Okay. So

we have to have something that's a court

of record for that appeal process.

Okay. Um there's no visitors here but

anybody who has any to speak uh they'll

step to the to the mic virtual mic there

and they will make their announcements.

Okay. And the rules governing that is

that they must be in some close

proximity to the prop to the property or

the issue that's in front of us. Okay.

So I'm going turn this over to Michael

and ready to go.

>> Okay. So, um before we begin, so the uh

um court reporter here uh to my left

taking everything down. So, let's avoid

not talking over one another. Uh uh-huh.

Uh-uh. You know, just so it's clear so

the court reporter can take everything

down. Um also, as this is on the record

and it's a hearing, then we swear in

witnesses. So, uh Mr. Knight, could you

please raise your right hand? Do you

swear or affirm to tell the truth, the

whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

>> I do.

>> Okay.

And the case is uh 2620

uh 1414 North Cameron Street. Um and

I'll read in the exhibits and then we'll

have uh the applicant and his council

identify themselves and then we'll swear

in the applicant. Okay. Uh all right. So

we have exhibit uh B1, the proof of

publication in the Patriot News,

November 2 and November 9, 2025. B2 is

the uh letter uh sent from the planning

director to the applicant notifying of

the hearing tonight. B3 is a hearing

notice uh posted on the property. Um B4

notification letter sent to uh the

required neighbors and a certificate of

mailing. B5 is the application packet

and with that was an attached narrative

uh photos of the existing conditions on

the property uh site plan for the

proposal and the uh parking study and

analysis.

Uh B6 is a letter from Specialized

Education, the parent company of uh

Capital Academy, providing information

of the students using the property uh to

park to attend school. Uh B7 is the deed

to the property establishing applicant

standing to pursue the requested zoning

relief. B8 planning bureau case report

and B9 is the uh city of Harrisburg

planning commission resolution. So it's

B1 through B9 and I'll have uh start

with council. Go ahead.

>> Thank you. Good evening. My name is Ash

McCobi. I'm an attorney with

100

Pennsylvania. Sitting to my right is

Josh Gray, a GNRP

applicant

property.

>> Let me just then swear in and then you

can run with it. Okay.

>> Uh Mr. Gray, do you swear affirm to tell

the truth, the whole truth, and nothing

but the truth?

>> I do.

>> Okay. Proceed.

>> I'll give a brief overview and

introduction and then Mr. Gray will

testify on a couple points. We only have

one exhibit for this evening, so I hope

property

houses.

There is sufficient public

transportation in the area nearly

drive

back. We had a parking analysis

maxi

day with the addition of students.

However, as

reports out,

as I said, I have just one

question.

>> Hold on one second. As we usually do,

and I just turned it over to you, uh,

Mr. tonight. Why don't you go through

then then your report and then attorney

McCome will get right to you. Okay.

>> That was my chance to defer everything.

>> Well, I'm glad it wasn't continuing.

Then I might have cut, you know, just

like you know what. Okay.

>> Uh yeah. So, uh as the applicant noted,

um the issue at hand here is uh the uh

relief um from the off- streetet parking

requirements for a school public or

private, primary or secondary use. uh on

the existing use on site, the Capitol

Academy. Uh the student population is

increasing from 115 students to 147

students and the staffing will increase

from 40 staff to 52 staff, which will

increase the all street parking

requirements from 69 spaces to 89

spaces. As the applicant notes, there

will only be 72 spaces on site after

installation of the modular classrooms

in the parking lot and reconfiguration

of a portion of the parking lot in the

northeastern corner. Um zoning hearing

board approval of the special exception

is required for relief from 17 off all

street parking spaces. Um as the

applicants generally speaking as the

applicants noted um you know they had a

parking study done for their use which

is you know certainly a more robust self

analysis than uh we often get for

similar requests. Um and um as they

noted, most of their um students are bus

or uh dropped off and u many of their uh

faculty uh take mass transit to the site

uh such that um they uh only require

somewhere in like the neighborhood of 35

spaces currently and 39 spaces uh under

the proposed conditions. So there's

certainly sufficient um parking on site

to accommodate this uh uh request. Um,

not only does the uh applicant meet uh

the conditions of, you know, having uh

access to mass transit routes, but

they've also done the comprehensive

study demonstrating um that uh the

requirements in the zoning code are um

in excess of what they are uh they they

do require and they will require going

forward. It should also be noted that um

the applicants uh need to expand the

facility uh basically requires them to

locate in the uh front of the property

uh where the park which is almost

entirely occupied by the accessory

parking lot on site. Uh the floodway

runs right to the west of where uh these

trailers these modular classrooms will

be located. So, uh it would have

significantly complicated uh any

proposal to either expand the building

on site or build um additional classroom

space in the back of the building uh

where the applicants do have space uh

just because of the flood plane and more

specifically the flood way uh

designations. Um so with all that being

said, uh the planning commission uh

recommended that the zoning hearing

board approved the request for the with

the following conditions.

The applicant must coordinate with

Capital Region Water regarding the site

disturbance and proposed reconfiguration

of the parking lot to ascertain what

storm water mitigation efforts will be

necessary. And while I don't think

they're increasing the impervious

surface on site, I don't know. Um I'm

not an expert in CRW's regulations and

anytime you do any sort of earth

disturbance, they may require some sort

of um may require the site to be brought

into compliance with their current

regulations. Uh and then as the proposed

parking configuration will have vehicles

facing the residential properties across

Cameron Street, uh the BL plan Bureau is

recommending that the applicant relocate

the parking lot several feet to the west

and install landscape screening along at

least the eastern frontage of the

proposed um reconfigured lot area. And

just for aesthetics sake, we'd probably

recommend that the the landscaping be

extended uh to the entire Cameron Street

frontage of the property. And uh the

planning commission recommends that

zoning hearing board approve the request

for the following reasons. The applicant

has met the criteria necessary for

approval of a special exception and that

the proposal should have a negligible

impact on the surrounding neighborhood.

Uh because the use is already operating

on site, approval of the proposal will

not alter the essential character of the

neighborhood, will provide benefits such

as the ability to enroll new students.

Um, as previously noted, although not in

the uh case report of the uh resolution,

um the applicants cannot locate a the

modular trailers at the rear of the

property. Uh so they do have to occupy

uh some portion of the parking lot. And

then finally, if the conditions of

approval are adopted, the project will

result in the property overall being

brought into better conformance with the

zoning code.

>> Just just offer to the make things more

efficient given support we have from

city planning department

I'd be okay with giving you over

>> No that's good yeah go ahead

>> I will hand out I

A1

as we continue to work through the

project

office

did receive

approval on the building permit for

those. So, I'm giving you that only

because the only change on there are the

numbers raising it 18 in. Nothing else

has changed.

As Jeff pointed out, the building itself

is in the floodway.

So, there's no real way for us to expand

the building. Certainly

build options.

um learn from from the school that they

they need to expand or they need

options

like to keep them. I think it's a great

property and a great

menting

And then we do have

two bus stops, public transportation

stops.

With all that kind of being said, I

think we're comfortable with both

conditions. At the planning commission

meeting, I mentioned planning

commission. I want to talk to my client

a little

certainly.

That's really all all we had. Those are

kind of the highlights. So, if you have

any questions, happy to answer them.

>> And uh to uh Mr. Gray, you've heard what

uh your attorney has mentioned. Um would

you adopt that as you know any of the

factual statements he made as your

testimony that it was accurate and all

that?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. Okay.

I I can add

Josh. Have you reviewed the narrative

application?

>> Yes.

>> To the extent

or adopt the comments?

>> Perfect.

just was going to ask, I mean, is there

any um conditions related to the school

that you would think would uh cause an

immediate increase in the need for

parking compared to the 35 I think that

or 39 that you all mentioned?

>> Um I I don't I don't think so. Um

basically the audience of student that

they go with is academically behavioral

challenging they bring in and a lot of

times uh they're robust dropped off. So

even if there was growth you know

typically speaking they're not the type

of students.

>> Gotcha. So and they serve central

Pennsylvania and 29 school districts but

um they are growing and

I can't think of anything that would you

know I think even say 40 would still be

32 spots there

>> and I can't think of anything we've

really spent a lot of time on that

>> and

athletic event

>> yeah one of the nice things with the

school is that

>> right

>> they serve a need for the public schools

and

the capital academy

for the students at the regular school.

>> That's right. Right. Thank you.

>> Look at I don't I don't have any

questions. Mr.

>> But I I will I one of the in the report

it basically said you're going to maybe

uh put some type of fencing or something

up to cut down on the glare. And I I

don't know how I'm going to say this.

There's no houses there. So what are you

what are you cutting down the glare

from? It's just empty on one side. It's

empty. Just an empty lot. What was what

was the need for that? I think the idea

is across Cameron Street there's an

apartment.

So I don't know fence but some sort of

bush something.

>> Okay. Further down.

>> I think they were looking for some form

of landscaping to create a barrier

between the sidewalk and kind of our

campus. If anything it' be more

beneficial for us.

>> I think our tenant would enjoy it more

than anybody because it's going to give

them a little bit more privacy for them.

So I think it's a good aesthetic request

that Jeff had and I think if anyone's

>> gonna

thank you.

Okay. So,

>> so I'd like to make a motion that for

God, I get the numbers right. For

application 2620,

we

accept the U applica or we approve we

approve the application based off of the

recommendations from the planning

bureau. the uh All right. So, right, you

make a motion to approve application

2620 with the conditions sent by the set

by the planning commission. Correct.

Okay, that's the motion. Mr. Hobs,

>> second.

>> All in favor?

>> I

>> I

>> Okay, it's approved and obviously the

written decision then will be uh sent

out within the 45 days. Okay.

>> All right.

>> Thank you.

like this.

Okay,

>> you okay with any questions?

We should pass you

Um, I mean, I would I would ask uh that

it continued to be granted being that I

think the I think the issue at least

from my perspective of um uh from the

board was less maybe the substance of

the request than it was uh the

technicality of whether they had

ownership or approval to use uh the

property at 1625 Cumberland Street uh to

ensure that they had the required off-

streetet parking. Um so I I I mean

speaking on behalf of the the

applicants, you know, I would request

that uh continuence be granted perhaps

to the January uh meeting. We don't have

the dates for that uh just yet. Um but

uh and then I would solicit a formal

continuence request from them after this

meeting.

Right.

Request it.

Okay.

because our concerns were

>> right.

>> He has right

>> and also you know

Yeah.

>> Why a question? What what has been the

recent communication with the applicant?

>> Um, you know, there was I think a little

I think there was an email immediately

after um the last meeting and then I

believe I copied uh uh BCC to Mr.

Okconor, Mr. Posh this morning when I

apprised them of exactly what we were

looking for and I said, you know, you

can either bring that to tonight's

meeting or you can either drop it off in

the planning bureau beforehand or email

it to us. Um, so we did we did apprise

them that they were expected to show up

to tonight's meeting. Um, and what exact

documentation um, the board was looking

for,

>> but did they give a direct response?

>> I don't I don't think I got a response

from them today. No. But also right, you

requested right after the last meeting

to just tell them

>> again, you know, you know what it what

it was. The only

is that usually then where you get that

written request, which you know, we've

done tons of times, but it's just like

we need that written and we always say

we we do need it.

>> Yeah.

>> You don't then need to show up. We just

need that written request so then you

can grant because it's not

>> you can't just say we request it you

know and unfortunately

>> and unfortunately you know Mr. You know

Mr. Knight could even though with good

intentions

>> you know what I mean and that's just the

that's just a concern

>> to do it

>> they can reapply or is there any cost

associated with that relication? Um, I

mean, normally we kind of review every

new application as being a distinct

submission, but I mean, in a case like

this, especially it's in a bit of a

unique scenario where we're at the end

of the year, so this is pushed back a

little further than it would normally

be. Um, so um, you know, it may be, uh,

that we would be willing to wave the fee

because I think it'd be relatively

prefuncter to go back through the

process again, certainly to the planning

commission to get back to here,

>> you know. So, so I wouldn't I wouldn't

foresee us having to develop a lot of

new documentation. For example, the case

documentation would all be the same. It

would just be, you know,

>> just redocket.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And it would all be like the

same and and then the question would

just come in be a lot easier than if he

even just had it,

>> you know, then be a few questions in in

January, February, whatever

>> time it is. Yeah.

>> You know what I mean? So,

>> and who knows, you know, if there's

something else going on, you know, with

it because I know what the agreement

said that within 60 days, which was the

last meeting, that he had to have so

much in cash

>> to get the deed

>> and if not, then he wasn't going to get

the deed. It would still continue on

that he could come up with it. But, you

know, not knowing any of that I either,

it might just be,

>> you know, the better practice just to do

that. And if it does then come in then

perfectly fine and everything can go

smoothly at that time. Yeah. So

why don't you go on?

>> I'm I'm ready to get this

>> here. Why don't you go on? Yeah. Just

say

>> I am. Okay. So I u

>> hold on. So this is then for application

2617.

It was continued from the October 20 uh

meeting

um when applicant uh was here. It was uh

uh Mr. Larry.

>> Yes. Correct.

>> Was his first name?

>> Abdul Larry, I believe.

>> Okay. Abdul Larry. Um and he was advised

that it would be continued to the

current uh date, November 17. Um and Mr.

Knight, I understand that then uh also

an email was then sent this morning

reminding of what documentation

uh Mr. Lair needed and that he could

bring it to tonight's meeting and so on.

Correct.

>> Uh that's correct. Yeah.

>> Okay.

Um and we waited what time is it?

>> 6:30.

>> 6:30. Okay. And and nobody has appeared

on behalf of um applicant. What we were

uh uh requiring from the last meeting

was um some sort of agreement or uh as

part of the sales agreement um um

authorizing

um applicant to use the 1616 her street

or and and 1625 Cumberland Street

parking lots for parking for the place

of worship at 1100 North 17th Street

which didn't have any available the no

space or anything for off streetet

parking. Um so that documentation hasn't

been received. Um and then with that so

the record would be closed

>> and then a motion can then be made from

from there.

>> Okay. So,

>> and just sorry, one more point before I

and I don't know if this needs to be um

explicitly stated, but I know in the

past uh there have been denials without

prejudice uh that it was basically on a

procedural aspect such as this or a

technicality, I think, as opposed to

saying like we disagree with the

proposal that's going out there. So, I

don't I don't know if that needs to be

stated separately when going through

this for the process. I I can probably

say right in the decisions that all I

would say is why it would be denied is

just that those agreements were not

being provided really that's exactly you

know what u the basis for it so almost

even letting applicant know okay that's

then what I need

>> okay

>> because I'll go through all the fact you

know what I mean I'll go through all the

facts and all all that type of thing and

just really point that that is the that

would be then then the issue that and

the board that would sign,

>> right? Denial is based off the fact that

um ownership of the lots that he's

proposing to use in support of his

support of the project.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. And that's all I mean again and

we've we've asked to bring that

information in front of us. Okay. It's

more protection for him. He has proper

ownership. He has proper ownership or

usage rights. Okay. Now, we're asking

for us to see that documentation.

>> Yeah. And I and I just I had recalled

that that terminology had been used

before. I didn't know if that was

prudent to use in the current situation

or not.

>> So um

so I'm I'm making a motion for for

application 2617.

We denied the request.

>> Okay.

>> Right. Deny the application.

>> We deny the application. And

>> that's it.

>> Second.

move and properly second. Uh all in

favor any questions?

>> All in favor?

>> I

>> I

deny and he can refile again.

>> And all this is on anybody. You can

>> So there's no hardship with that. That's

that was my concern was that would a

refile force of hardship? I don't think

so.

>> No,

>> we're getting some time protecting his

right. We're protecting his rights.

Okay. Because if we granted All of a

sudden there's a legal issue.

>> Yeah.

>> Um it's going to cost some more to

resolve that.

>> Sure.

>> Okay. So here

>> um we have another cases in front of us

tonight. Um as you said we do not have a

meeting in December, right? We have it

in January.

>> That is correct.

>> So okay. So everybody I'll make a motion

to adjurnn.

>> Second.

>> Okay. Move properly second. Uh all in

favor? I. Okay. I see you January.