Harrisburg Architectural Review Board Meeting 5-5-2025

Mrs. Gripple,

Miss Rucker, Miss Bennett here, and Mr.

Henry.

Um, so we'll start with new business.

The first on the agenda is 210 Hamilton

Street.

If you would

address name is Chris, address 340

Pleasant Road, PA7.

Great. Thank you. Um, first we'll start

by Jeffrey reading a synopsis.

Uh, yes. So, the applicant is proposing

to replace the existing real slate

shingles on the third floor maner roof

and dorma roofs with Ecostar synthetic

slate shingles. Um and uh if uh you've

seen the photos in the uh case report or

um did a site visit to the property, uh

you'd note that uh the there is a pretty

minimally visible maned roof on the

third floor of the front of the

building. Um and uh they'll be replacing

the slate shingles there uh and on the

um kind of large A-frame dormer there uh

with the Ecostar uh synthetic slate

shingles. Um this is a product that uh

has been reviewed and approved by the uh

board before. Um so uh this is not

proposing a new product. Um and uh the

uh visibility of the location of work is

pretty minimal. Um and so it's a pretty

straightforward uh proposal. Um the

planning bureau staff is recommending

the request be approved with the

following conditions. Uh the applicant

should utilize a similar slate color to

the existing shingles. Uh and that's

just kind of to to maintain the overall

general appearance of the property. Uh

and then uh planning bureau staff

recommends our quest be approved for the

following reasons. The project is

similar to other approved proposals for

replacement of real estate shingles and

thus there is precedent for the

allowance of the alternative materials

and the project involves replacement of

architectural elements with minimal

visibility and a low profile along the

mansered roof.

open

the meeting up to you if you have more

comments.

No, the only thing I would not is that

we'd be using the fish scale ecoar which

would mimic exactly what's on on the

manor wall at the

time basically identif going over there.

Yeah,

would be a similar color, but

we'll match it up as well as possible. I

believe it's going to be a bedroom.

Yeah, those two. We're going to hold it

up. Double check.

Now, was that painted that slate painted

with that u

No, kind of looks like it in the photo

that it might have. Yeah, that's on

and um do you know if it was reviewed as

possible salvage?

It's beyond repair. So, fortunately,

I know sometimes we've asked the owners

to

Uh I mean I think there's been

discussion of that. Uh but I don't know

that you know the city uh manages like

an architectural salvage operation or

even a facility where this stuff could

be suh stored and then um you know

resold. Uh so I don't know, you know,

how we would maybe mandate that or track

that. Uh obviously it would be

preferable to retain whatever shingles

are possible for use, you know, on any

historic building, preferably in the

city, but um just because really there's

not a whole lot of like new slate

shingles being made uh nowadays. But I

think at the end of the day, um you

know, having a requirement like that or

a condition like that is just you know,

maybe difficult to enforce.

We do actually save when we can because

I get for other slate repairs. I do some

of that as well. So now I don't know

city would want

take them off and I can save 100 tiles.

I actually

that's what we would like to do.

Um any other comments from the board

questions?

Um I have a question for the board. Do

we want to change the condition

or say that the shall utilize a similar

slate

color

shape size and shape or texture maybe

would be a better

Yeah.

I

guess I don't know if you can get a

similar texture.

Well, I think as opposed to like it's

Yeah, the rough edge kind of

looks like a fiship.

I don't think it has a particular name

for it. I think Ecoar and Da Vinci both

come that way

naturally. Have that type edge. They

don't finish an edge of slate in one way

or the other. That makes sense.

And I guess I'll make a

motion modified condition. Second it.

I

oppos. Right. Next on the agenda is 227

M

Street.

Sorry. Absolutely.

I was going to say absolutely not. That

is not what that says.

Is that really how it's how it's

pronounced years without

Stephanie Anders.

Uh yes. So the applicant is proposing to

replace the existing panled front door.

uh and transom with a halfu fiberglass

door featuring panels along with the

transom. Uh so uh this proposal um you

know is similar to uh some other

proposals we've gotten in the past uh

for replacement uh of doors. Sometimes

people want to remove like a wood door

with a half view pane and just put

something solid in for security reasons.

And other times we get proposals uh like

this where it's replacing a solid panel

door um with uh half pain. Um, and when

reviewing a project of this of this

nature, you know, you kind of look to

the historic district design guidelines,

uh, which generally discourage the

replacement of, uh, panled wooden doors

with, um, fiberglass or modern

materials, uh, because the profile of

the of the panels and the recessed areas

isn't quite the same. And in this case,

we're adding a um, uh, halfview pane as

well. Um I think when I uh went out and

did a site visit um you know I noted

that uh in addition to like this

proposal and this aspect is not um

relevant maybe necessarily to this

particular project and it's not

certainly the applicant's responsibility

but it appears that a previous owner uh

replaced some of the u windows on the

property uh took two over two windows

out and put in one over one windows. Uh

there were some other aspects uh like uh

mini split system put in um and some

other changes to the building that uh

you know didn't go through uh the harb

approval or as far as I can tell get

city uh permits. Um and so you know when

looking at this I'm looking at it almost

as a continuation of that where the um

historic nature of this building has um

kind of slowly been uh degraded uh and

erased. And so I think this uh proposal

would be kind of a step in that similar

direction. Um, and you know, there are

um existing products out there like

wooden doors, wooden panel doors

especially, uh, that could be used to

replace this. Um, you know, I think

it's, you know, evident as wood door

when you go up to it. You can kind of

see some peeling paint. Um, but the, uh,

proposed door would be a pretty

significant change, uh, from the current

appearance. And again, because it's

right up against the sidewalk and is not

set back like underneath a porch or

something like that, it's even more

conspicuous than it might otherwise be.

Um so for that reason um the uh plan

bureau is recommending the request be

denied um uh because the proposal to

replace a paneled wooden door with a

fiberglass door with a half view pane is

not an appropriate or necessary

alteration to an existing historically

appropriate feature. Uh because the

building does not have a front porch to

obscure the proposed change and the

location of work is in the touch zone.

The alteration will be conspicuous and

visible from the public right ofway. And

the applicant has the option of

installing a new wooden or wood

composite panel door if the existing

door requires replacement for either

security or energy efficiency reasons.

There

anything if I may. So um the homeowners

actually

Okay. With replacing the door and

currently it would have glass and just

go back to the six panel door as you

have with regards to the the previous

steps that previous owner have

done something

she

did. Uh the only thing that I would like

to bring

up safety

and obviously contacted us for the

purpose of getting this done because

safety not to say anything we know about

that block or that part of the city but

things can happen and being a single

homeowner that is so we have to go in

full battle just the way it appears I

believe

that we are all to do

Um, I noticed that there's three doors.

Yes, two of them would be on the side.

So, it would not

have an

effect any type of

appearance. The front were actually

instead of Six panel solid.

Is there some reason why given that you

wouldn't be doing the door you had in

mind, you couldn't just keep the

original door or the existing

It

is obviously from

shifting by

and a new door would have equal

preference. Yes.

So the six panel that you're talking

so it is fiberglass but the the outside

would be of what would be a composite.

So if we

have the necessity for

that office

again right

measure. We actually uh had one of our

measures come out

city

door. So we are in all all steps.

We are

meeting

thoughts they go with this fiberglass

with the positive exterior.

Yeah. Uh you know I saw that in the um

in the case documentation that I think

there's like fiber core and then a

fiberglass outside of uh the um on the

exterior of the door. Uh I know the the

the board has approved fiberglass doors

in the past. Um I think in some cases

the conditions are a little or the

circumstances of the property are a

little bit different. Maybe you have a

you know existing vinyl door or existing

fiberglass door or something like that.

um or it's a particular size uh and it

needs to um have that you know ideally

it would be um you know wood door but I

think if there's a compromise to be made

and it sounds like the applicants are

you know willing to compromise on the

design of it I think um there's some

justification for um you know an

allowance of the material I I think in

the past

um I don't know whether it's uh this um

manufacturer or installer or it was

another one but They said that the

fiberglass was paintable. Um, so I don't

know if if yours is or not. So it is

paintable, which I know is one of the,

you know, long-standing

um, you know, issues of of every review

that the board does is the paintability

of of the product. And if the product's

paintable, um, I think there's, um, you

know, that certainly helps, uh, in

support of the applicant's position.

Does Anderson do a wood composite door?

What we have is what we are proposing

here that not a full the door itself.

It's not a posit.

Can you make it?

Currently we are not offer

approved in several areas of the city.

So that's exactly what you're what

you're looking at here. That's what we

would evidence. That's what he has.

Best framing to

those. The door be the

six. Hi

Thank you. Thank you.

Next on the agenda is 308.

Your name and address.

by

26 car.

Uh yes. So the applicant is proposing to

replace the five existing wooden windows

on the front elevation uh with fibrics

with fibbrric windows. Uh and uh the

request should I guess be modified to

note that only the first floor window uh

would be packed out um by one inch on

either side. Uh as noted in the applic

as noted in the application uh the

existing the other four windows on the

second and third floors I think would

just uh be matching existing profile of

the window. Um so in looking at

something like this I know um

the board has generally discouraged uh

packing out uh it changes the appearance

and the kind of the profile of the

window. Um in this case I think we were

balancing a couple things. So, one of

the things uh was that the applicants

noted their only this is they couldn't

make a product that was the same size as

the existing uh window frame. Um so that

would mean that the alternative would be

doing like a play glass window. Um so I

have something similar in my front um

the front window on my first floor uh

where replaced a big double hung with a

a picture window. Um and maybe you could

put you know a fake check rail in the

middle of that. um to replicate the

appearance of a double hung window.

Um or the alternative would be, you

know, allowing the applicant to uh

install the window as proposed. And I

noted that in looking at the window, the

check rail is actually somewhat

offcentered uh on the overall window

frame. And the proposed window uh also

has that offset to the check rails. So

uh you know, this is kind of um one that

I think could go either way. Um and when

considering it, I really thought that um

maybe the

greater contributo element I guess uh

would be the offset check rail as

opposed to the overall you know profile

sides of the window. Uh and so the

question came down to well we recommend

denial or a condition with approval with

a different type of window. What would

that be? Um, and again, it couldn't be a

fiber window um or a wood composite

window of the exact same size. It would

have to be a picture window with like a

a simulated uh check rail in it. Uh or

it could be what the applicants are

proposing. And so, uh while I know that

I know the board's position on uh

packing out windows, um it seemed in

this case like it may be the lesser of

two evils uh when it comes to the uh

replacement of these windows. And

obviously as they're replacing the

windows on the upper floors too, you

kind of want a continual appearance um

between all the windows on the property.

So it'd be one where I don't know that

it would necessarily be the best idea to

say, well, we'll approve the four

windows on the second and third floor

and not the first floor window. I think

that would be even more conspicuous than

um you know what some of the other

options would be. Um so uh with that

being said uh the planning bureau

recommended uh the request be approved

um for uh the following reasons. Uh the

proposed window material is

administratively approvable per the

historic district design guidelines. And

although the project represents an

alteration which is discouraged by the

board due to the visible impact on the

architectural feature, the alternative

of a picture window would be a more

conspicuous change. Um, aside from the

proposed f first floor replacement

window, the project can otherwise be

administratively approved as presented.

Uh, and finally, the project will

replicate the off-centered check rail

between the top and bottom sashes of the

existing window. Um, so again, I think,

you know, this could have really gone

either way and I'm sure there may be,

you know, some indecision on behalf of

the board members on which way to go in

this case, but um, the planning bureau

felt that this was a pre more preferable

option to the alternative of a picture

window with the simulated check rail.

Um, we can make a picture window the

correct size. What we were trying to do

was match the double hung on the house

that's attached to it, like within

inches of that window. There's another

one on the next home. So, the homeowner,

we wanted to try to keep that. We

figured that was going to be an easier

approval process than going to a picture

window. So the the it's the overall

United that window that's giving us an

issue. It's the same thing when we did

the window at your home. We're talking

about a thumbs width on each side. Um

and on a 50inch wide window that's going

to be harder to pick up on than if we

make a picture window with like a

simulated check rail. I think that that

will look worse than like sash, you

know, because it's just a piece of glass

at that point.

where the sashes aren't offset and that.

So, the double home's going to look much

better as you're driving by, then you

won't you would have a really hard time

noticing one inch on each side of that

window

with it.

Can you explain the one inch uh

so I can make No, I can make it would be

on the width. So, I can make the width,

but then I can't get the height. I can

make the height, but then I can't quite

get the width. So, we're like two inches

too big on the the overall size of that

opening. So, it was going to look better

uh because we can slope the sills on our

double hungs to match the slope sills of

the original windows, it was going to

look better to lose the inch on the

sides than at the top and

bottom. We can nicer that way. And then

on the interior, it has the existing

original wood stops. They almost cover

most of that packing and we're just

going to have a little bit on the the

inside to touch up on. So, but it'll

look much better with the double hung

being out front. So, you're there's

brick walls around.

Um, again, that's all staying original.

So, the homeowner, he travels a lot for

work. He knows that he needs there's

some uh wood work that needs to be done

and like the box sills and whatnot. He's

going to paint that to match because our

color is pretty close and he's going to

paint the wood trim around to match the

window once he gets the wood repair

done.

And then what is the full exposure of

the sash?

I don't know. The size of the width of

the sash

the overall unit is going to be The

overall unit width is 48 in wide is what

we can make. You go into that opening. I

would say 3 in from there to start the

glass. I don't know. The sash

is 2 in wide the whole way around. It's

very accurate. So, so like original wood

windows. Okay. But so it look like two

inches on the top, three inches on the

sides, two inch. Oh, is it you're

talking about the border around the

window. I don't think you're because

there's box sills below it. So, that's

going to blend in nicer. Um, and then at

the top there's more than likely

decorative trim um around that window.

So I don't think if you're are you

talking about like the

profile around the window where we

finish off

to that we'll

be our window is 3 in from frame to

glass and then we're going to have about

an inch on each side. So you'll have

um probably

only two inches of like finishing

material from our window over to the

existing trim and then the rest will be

window sash like sashes

operating that what you were looking for

each side or I guess I'm confused on

what your question was that two inch on

each side or one inch each it's one inch

on each side but then the finishing

covers support our window frame. So,

that's where I got, you know, you're

going to we're going to use what we

typically use in Harrisburg is um called

Ftrim or Ltrim and it's made out of the

fiber material. Um you'll probably have

about a 2 inch wide piece of that

running around, but it's covering up a

portion of our frame. It's covering up

the whole window frame. It snaps into

that. You want to see some pictures of

like of like before and afters or

I don't have them of that house, but I

have

Is this material?

Yeah, it's we've been using

it in Harrisy here

for 10 years, I think. Yeah, I was going

to say I think the first couple

instances we had were maybe like 2014,

2015, and I think there had been

administrative approval starting like

2016, 2017 or something. I think was

when the board took a vote to grant

administrative approval to it.

I understand the description.

Thank you.

Um I you know I I think to um you know

the applicant's uh point because it's

not just a simple brick mold frame all

the way around uh and kind of to your

point of like well it would be two

inches on the top then and three inches

on the side because you have those like

chunkier headers and sills. Uh the

additional width on the sides is going

to be less noticeable because of those

bigger blocks on the on the top and

bottom of the window. If it were just,

you know, brick mold all the way around

and you just like put a window in there,

which we have those windows in in the

city, um I think it would probably the

change would be more evident. Um but I

think due to the nature of the um

existing uh conditions, I think it'll be

less visible and and I think like I

said, at the end of the day, it seems to

me that the more you know, unique aspect

is the offset check rail in this window.

Um, and

so a replacement that can replicate that

is probably preferable over something

that's just again a picture.

Find an image that you share with I have

a a few um you want to bring it up.

So this is cornal but like same age,

right? But we did bottom two windows,

top three are still original.

And this is packed out with the one.

These didn't necessarily need to be

packed out, but there's not a whole lot

of difference. And these are much

smaller windows. So on a 50-inch wide

window, that's that's the issue. We're

talking about a thumb on each side. And

you there's going to width difference

between this window and this window just

because you're setting inside the

existing framing that's already

there right side windows

original left side replacements

So there's like some slight profile

differences, but driving past and seeing

that is going to be much harder to see

than if we put

the a 2 in wider picture window

in cuz the homeowner was trying to match

the window that's like 2 feet over in

the neighbor's home.

Yeah.

It's very very close.

[Music]

Thoughts, concerns?

I like the idea of keeping an operable

window operable.

I would

suggest

that at least from my perspective I

would be okay with approving this but

not having it set the precedent that

this would be a one time only approval

for this

particular alteration

that month from now someone says well

they did

view each one of

and I and I do always um you know inform

everybody that uh that board decisions

are not presidential. They're based on

the circumstances of each particular

property and each particular project. Um

and therefore approval of a particular

material or product for one property is

not necessarily going to be given for

another. again, if you're have a door

right up to the sidewalk or step back on

a in a in a porch. Um, so I do make a

note of that, but including it in the

actual uh resolution is, you know,

probably helpful to anybody that may

want to read that for the future.

[Music]

Motion. I make a motion to approve

with

Connie's recommend with the addition.

Okay. Second.

I have a

motion.

Second.

I motion carries. Thank you very much.

other

business continue what was discussed

last

month of the project.

your name and address.

Yeah, I gave you I gave you the

PowerPoint, the print out. I actually

have um the specifics on the paint and

the masonry I think from last meeting

too, just in case you had follow

questions about that. But the PowerPoint

that you have is the one um that they

had provided for this meeting. I think

photographs in there because it was too

low resolution.

Peter from 6608 North place

Rebecca

McCormick

West Market Street.

Um, you know, not much additional beyond

uh last month's discussion. Um, we did

have a a follow-up meeting where we

discussed some of the feedback that the

board provided at last month's meeting.

um and some maybe additional uh

information that the consultant team may

want to provide uh for this particular

uh presentation. And if you'll note on I

guess the seventh page of the um

PowerPoint uh they have a kind of

comparison chart of the um materials uh

that are involved in this uh

reconstruction. some of the major

materials that are involved in the

reconstruction. Um, you know, roof,

walls, windows, uh, doors, and it kind

of has a breakdown of what it was

originally, if known. Um, what might

have happened or what happened in the

1970s when there was a reconstruction

project and then in the '9s during that

reconstruction project, which we

discussed at the last meeting, and then

finally this current proposal. So, I

think it it's designed to uh help the

public and the board understand and kind

of track like what's being changed. Is

this a change from the original or is

this a change from the most recent

reconstruction of the of the property?

And therefore, it might be different

from what we are used to seeing as

residents of the city. Uh but that's not

necessarily means it's any less historic

or less appropriate uh than what was

there previously. Uh so that's what that

charter is designed to do. Um and I

think uh the consultant team will um

probably expand a little bit upon that

and um maybe address some of the other

uh questions or issues that were brought

up by the board at the last meeting.

I just want to make one clarification. I

didn't say I just said it was the Broad

Street Market, but focus is the brick

building today. There might be comments

on other

discussion. So,

um guess go through your PowerPoint with

us.

Um so, I'll start with uh page two. Um

it's some of the photos that were

previously presented at the last

meeting. Um again, these are the photos

we've been in our research um using as

um items or checkpoints to go back into

try to tell the story of what was

previously there and how the building

time

um some historical photos. The one note

on the right is the is the structure

that was previously in the plaza and

building

um the

dark is also some more um images. Um

really focused

on the image on um we did reach out to

um for some more as

well that he sent back to us. Um did

learn this image is from 1890.

So like Jeffrey was just saying we did

compile a chart to uh sort of explain

the evolution of various elements of the

building and what we're proposing and in

a lot of the cases we are going back to

the what is the original um because in

the 70s they they made some some very

drastic changes um and then again in the

'9s Some of those changes went back to

the original and others did not. So we

are trying to reference the 1890s image

with all

modifications

windows. We'll get to the roof as well

because there's some changes

from the next

much has changed since the last uh the

last

meeting existing walls are two widths um

with space in between. Um and usually uh

bricks every seven to kind of help tie

it together. Um but it needs some

stabilization to graph of the center

void um and point to an exterior size

wall and also metal stuff on the

interior side um to stabilize the wall

as well.

It's some other

um issues that we discovered some of the

bricks are very

soft

to place the select bricks if they're

really bad shape ways to possibly

It

stands a water

issue

of that

We didn't find out what the um issue

was. So they weren't able to actually

scope the the down spout. So we're going

to actually part of the project we're

going to replace all the down spouts and

underground basically. So that was one

of the problems where we um we are

trying to get more information from the

geo with the water table. water tables

roughly 10 ft low rate which should be

below us but there's still concerns

possibly we have a a wet season that it

might rise up for for small periods of

time so we're still looking at

waterproofing the existing

we are I think we talked about this last

time we're removing the slab inside so

we can get to the foundations for

repairs from the inside and Basically

all of the sidewalk along the north and

south side will be coming out for

replacement of infrastructure and

utilities and

um a foundation drain will also help

drainage so if it does rise can drain

doesn't get absorbed.

No we're fill the cavity. So, we're

going to put a

mebring section. That's the section

that's out.

as well. We're all on the same page.

So, it's

it's on the following slide.

interior elevation showing

some

construction last

Next slide is our

photo is an example of um the door

replacement and

transmosing as we did last month to take

the trans up to

height

larger. Next slide.

They were solid panel.

There was there's glass inserts current

like prior to our project. This is the

'9s replacement doors which were not

authentic. Didn't look like it did. So

we're going back. We're going to go back

to the solid

on the

exterior east and west elevations.

There's a six that was used in photo and

then on the the east I mean north and

south

elevation lower eleing

to have the interior set of the

doors that way. Um the other thing too

is originally the doors were out.

Um you can kind of see that door slide

that I referenced. There's kind of a

recess for the doors that we're going to

have that as well. That's more

and west entrances will have 88 push

buttons. So,

thank you.

The next slide on slide 17 is

just it's the

photo. So this slide that has

various images is just showing it's just

illustrating the changes that were made.

So in the 70s they actually broke the

transoms into two separate pieces. The

lower piece of the transom was operable.

The upper piece was fixed and they

actually recessed the lower transm with

the door. Um and then in the 90s

renovation they they tried to go back

to historically but I still think they

didn't

quite make it match. Um so You can just

see the evolution rightosing what we

feel is the closest match how it

wasn't getting to windows.

Um we are looking at the bigger windows

and also taking

those back historically. So in this

photo um the

199 we're working with to do um a

different

size middle windows because we think

originally they probably didn't they

weren't able to manufacture or install

the

window because it is so large. So the

middle mountain will be a wider

profile to mimic the original

today because we do want to continue the

conversation of the aluminum windows. We

also brought a sample of a composite

window. Um we have learned from that

they cannot manufacture the first

extruded like you

can. So this obviously exact window

we're proposing but we wanted to show

materiality we talked a bit about the

simulated divided lakes. Um so this is

what this is

78 for the

month and the the divider piece will

be doesn't

light this one shows that metal finish

and you can see it more because it

reflects light but these are the

composite windows and you can see the

the lines are just not as crisp and

clean.

We have some details in the next sheets

that show we've been studying all of the

we don't have any original

windows but we

are windows there which

presumably to the original windows but

also just the proportions and the

We

check which

is the way to go with you know be

finished with the

[Music]

That's the reason behind it.

I am

here nowing a fully operable double

double hung windows. Um so Marvin has a

hardware that they can lock the

So it can only be operated with key

which means it can still be operated but

somebody could just

you need to ventilation that's

well the building will be climate

controlled though that's the thing like

you probably we probably don't want

people opening the windows um when the

AC's on or the heat's

on they make the air go they

And well, in the

event and open the

windows, we're

noting

any screens. It really would interfere

with the appearance.

So the operation would only would be

very

limited not by people in the market but

only by

and that's the first one or the story as

well.

So um these details we're still

developing these details but have

met the manufacturer to discuss and

um discuss how the windows are going to

integrate into the existing building.

We're not modifying any of the

um talked about last time we are

replacing all of the sills which had

been replaced in the 90s. They don't

quite fit the openings.

So, we're proposing a

pre-cast.

Um, you know,

there were more closely, but we did all

the

details. We pulled a couple

of projects that were approved by the

register of historic places. So um the

um 1887 American

brewy similar

era7 that range a little bit earlier

but they were all custom made by

also and that was

projects on the

national station. So very similar era

um aluminum custom wood windows by were

approved for this project also in the

national like these are two that are

very close

to those

Uh yeah, we do right before the um

dimensions.

But

um I mean we did find this on

um on the National Park Service

rehabilitation guidelines uh

did state that for example C types of

large buildings particularly highrises

um which is not but um building room

windows may be suitable for historic

wood are not practical and the design

dete

Then question about

windows. We'll move on to the paint

analysis. I think we talked about last

time we did um take 23 samples from

various locations building for paint

analysis. There were only really three

on the exterior that were usable paint

samples um because there was so much

charring on the paint that a lot of it

was not usable. Um but these these are

the three colors that we did find

through paint

and some

images. We also talked a little bit last

time about um the

historic image for the pink colors going

away from just all white trim to

palette.

Next building is a another project we

did in historic

Gettysburg. We presented several

different

options palettes using a lot of the same

colors from the analysis. We presented

it to the the market board and the small

group that

we everyone read the option list which

is what we're showing

[Music]

here in a solid color whereas the doors

will be used by public would have a

two-tone palette where the base panels

are a lighter color the styles and rails

are probably darker

And just for clarity, where's the red

going? Is that on the bracket?

So

also, so we're trying to tone versus

two more

detail. I know there was some comments

you're

proposing going

back

to last year.

series 1300 series.

What's the difference in the cost? We're

still working on the cost. Um but we

think on the loan it'll it'll work

itself out. I think on

the we did we did have a meeting today

actually um that it would probably be

around double the cost um cost of it

mainting

color the details but we're trying to

find the smallest standing seam profile

updated session last

time. Um so the the red lines on

the minimally changing the pitch um we

need to get ination

um to

minimize we

understand but there's

ways piece that's that goes against the

brick better system we think there's

of those up to minimize the impact

of the facial

growing ground.

have one question. Um, in a meeting

recently, someone asked about the

brick there.

Were you able to manufacture?

We were actually taking they're removing

bricks. This green

different bricks. So the bricks are

different sizes exterior for the three

different pieces and

inter same.

All

right, I'm impressed.

Um, yeah, I guess if you wanted to go

through your last slide there of the

site, Ariel,

no, it was just if there was any

comments that we needed to talk about

the site, we just included,

what is the scope of work on the site

for the brick building? said you were

talking about taking off the concrete

floors to get downations but people

should expect

and for interior of

the building I understand the systems

want to kind of

disguise itself

at separate. No, that's that's starting

to evolve right now. Right. So there is

not what's being proposed right now is

there's not a central plan.

We're proposing um to put a chiller pack

system which would be in the parking

lot parking lot

here and then find a way to shall

We're exploring it now and then the

chillers will be fed below the

street and as well

we're never going to be

able to find a house for

now on the

same basically left very little.

down into upper

area. It'll be space,

but you won't need

any building.

You're saying

wall side that kind of splits it. We're

on the east

side or it' be on the first story.

There's a high window.

There's like a higher window that's

not members of the public

here. wanted to bring up to your

attention and we're looking

at specifically today. I can understand

that to be the first phase

of

future to this

project. Do you have comments you wanted

to

this procedure is name address for the

record?

I serve on the task

force. They meet every other Tuesday

with the architects and I'm very

impressed. I just want to say that for

the record. The way in which the

architects have approached this project

both with respect to being diligent with

historic photography, paint colors and

other attributes of the project. I just

wanted to mention that from my

standpoint speaking on behalf of

historic from my standpoint very

impressed. The only other question uh is

state historic preservation office is

also I think in the process of reviewing

these plans and whether or not there's

been any feedback from them and that is

requirement based on the federal

undertaking some grant funds involved

here that does kick in that state. So I

don't know Jeffrey can you comment on

that? Uh I don't believe I've received

anything yet. I don't know if the

project team has

So we we did get a preliminary uh review

better and it was only based off of our

schematic design submission. So they

haven't seen the development of the

design. So we need to have that

conversation with them but um they did

make the same comment that you guys did

um that their preference was for a metal

just we've made that change. um a couple

of interior

uh comments comments on the interior

building,

but I don't think it were really any

different than what we had discussed

with you guys last

month. Just in support of your metal

roof, which I'm really glad that you've

made that change.

I did a little research too trying to

find um some information and could not

find anything on this building in

historic newspapers, but there were

building they were building another new

market in 1872 on Market Street and they

were using a metal on that

But again, it would appear that the

state preservation office is in the

process of

What's the maintenance on a metal roof?

I

don't

expect color so it'll have a high

reflectivity and less prone to fading

than a darker color.

That's what

I they do paint.

So, do they them over paint?

You can't paint over

that for

the is 35 years for the finish. Oh, for

the finish. Okay.

I think there'll be some date. I

mean, but

Thank you very

much. Josh Kesler, city

res. I think these guys have done a

fantastic job. I came

tonight

exior but I went through the plan I

support you know all of it was very

thought on the windows very historically

appropriate

maintenance metal

roof touch

necessary so you know it's a little more

upfront cost first but longevity

you know

is full support of proposals any other

changes maneuvers or other things that

might come

up here.

Julia James 1327

Street about indoors as someone who's

not quite tall enough to reach the glass

that was

indoors by those

doors coming

out for people to see each other coming

in and out a good idea.

What are the steps now?

So I think so the um um uh formal COA

application is not being filed um as

part of this project. Uh uh which is why

this was introduced under other

business. Um that was um a

recommendation of the of the S's law

bureau. Um so uh from here I guess uh

the board if you have any last comments

that you would like to make.

um any statements in one way or another

uh to um you know express the board's

feelings about the particular project

but I believe um you know there wouldn't

be a formal COA uh resolution to go to

the to city council although city

council will of course be um getting uh

this documentation they would be voting

on various aspects of I'm sure contracts

and stuff like that uh so this will be

going to city council in something.

So I'm not sure that it it doesn't but

that city council is going to ultimately

get this right. So essentially if you

guys did it your step one right city

council it always essentially goes

there. So, we're just making sure that

you guys have any questions, comments,

that was the presation. That's what that

was

for. I guess it's turning on now. Um,

but essentially, again, as Mr. Knight

said, if you guys have any questions,

comments that you would like that

record, obviously, let Jeff know. It'll

get to city council. Um, but something

magnitude, right?

essentially that city

council

sitt first. So there's going to be

federal

funding which is why he was talking

about chip which means there's a section

106 process that you're going through

and so there should be

consultation and I'm wondering if it's

to have a member of the of AARB on the

as a consulting party there's nothing

nothing actually to

likeational front so there's nothing for

it to actually like action

I think your your comment was a little

different right your comment was in the

national review scope because they're

using federal funds, they have to do

what's called section 106 review, which

requires you to have consulting parties,

people who are interested parties to

attend and talk about the project. And

I'm wondering if shouldn't there be

someone from ARB on as a

consultant? So,

How is this going to happen?

Yeah. I'm wondering whether that city

question. It's interested parties. It's

it's not the city doesn't get to decide

that necessarily. We would disagree with

you. Yeah.

That's fine. We own the building. We own

the property. We owe the money. We have

the insurance files. We have the

applications. The city will have

everything to say about it. Oh. Oh, no.

I'm not saying the city doesn't have

anything to say about it. saying that a

consulting party isn't just a by the

city. I got that part. I'm saying but

but how it goes forward there's there's

many many parts to this thing but we

have we have an insurance company to

answer to at the end of the day federal

money what's here will be a minuscule

part of the entire thing which phase

it's in will be an issue that's still

not resolved. minuscule or not, if you

have federal funding, you have to go

through this consulting party

process. I would I would just suggest

that if it comes if there's an

opportunity that maybe president of this

board should be consulting part and we

haven't gotten to that step yet. Yeah,

exactly.

But when it when Shipo is starting that

read, then that's when start to come up

with that's when I think Trina

should

well position rather than the name.

Yeah. No.

Um, so are there comments that we want

to move

forward? The only thing that I see

as material

Yeah question last month you g a short

synopsis shingle and you had something

about the insulation build up now that

it's metal clad that's what I was trying

to trying to change the

profile but it's still the six

insulation is still going

because current energy

code installation.

So, we've got wood

doors. Made comment

about swing of the doors.

Now, just traffic. Hopefully, it will

again,

excuse me. Are there still two sets of

doors at each entrance?

There's

like some back of house for just

specific.

Any other concerns?

appreciate all

the use to the city

If there's no other

business to adjourn

Thank