Harrisburg City Planning Commission Meeting - 01/08/2025

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I'd like to call the harrisb Planning

Commission to order at approximately

638 um Commissioners you received your

November 6 meeting minutes are there any

changes deletions

additions motion to approve is there a

second second this been moving and a

second for approval with amendes as they

are all those in favor state by saying I

I I opposed abstain one

exension

motion

approved under old business there's

none under new business um item number

one this slay variance and special

reception for 833 pxton street is Zone D

filed by Michael Adams and Lamar

Advertising with I'm sorry with Lamar

ising it's to relocate an existing

two-sided billboard and convert one of

the static uh signage faces to an

electronic changeable Message Board

utilizing LED

technology uh so the applicant is

proposing to relocate an existing two

side two-sided static face billboard

with a v-shaped billboard featuring an

internally illuminated LED sign face on

one side The Proposal requires ZB

approval of two variances one to allow

for backtack signage separated by more

than the permitted 5 ft uh per section

7-

32514 A3 of the zoning code and one for

the proposed signage to have an

electronic changeable Message Board

utilizing LED technology per section 7-

32514 A6 of the zoning code property at

833 Paxon street is comprised of two

separate tracks that total 20.18 Acres

which are separated by interstate 83

which runs East West roughly through the

center of the property there are 10

individual structures on site which

support the operation the on-site

operations of a concrete plant the

buildings were constructed in various

phases with four the buildings dating to

1930 four of the buildings dated in 1950

and the remainder being built in 1969

and 1998 property is bounded by Paxton

Street to the North amtr Railroad Amtrak

railroad tracks to the East syamore

Street to the South and amtr railroad to

the West this property features a number

of utilitarian sheds storage warehouse

and out building surrounding a principal

office building that is a three-story

detached brick structure and an

industrial Warehouse architectural style

character defining features of the

office building include the brick

masonry the large divided light and

plate glass windows sheltered by awnings

on the first floor and a large brick

chimney extending from the center of the

structure most of the surrounding

buildings are brick or concrete block

and feature few defining characteristics

towards the center of the property is a

large concrete production plant Southern

portion of the site where the existing

proposed Billboards will be located

features material storage partitioned by

concrete block walls and parking areas

there are several buildings scattered

about this portion of the property with

the largest being a two-story building

clad and standing seam metal sighting

the primary office structure is similar

in character and designed in many of the

surrounding buildings along Paxton

Street and South Cameron Street and thus

contributes to the industrial character

of the street Scapes and corridors but

many of the other structures and

buildings on site are specific to the

activity on site and stand out from the

Aesthetics of the surrounding area the

planning Bureau staff recommends the

request be approved with the following

conditions if the board approves the

applicant's request as submitted the

applicant will be conformance uh with

rules and regulations set forth by the

Pennsylvania Department of

Transportation and receive approval from

said entity subsequent to to decision by

the zoning hearing

board uh the applicant will limit

message transition to six transitions

per minute per previous approval for a

similar proposal granted by the zoning

hearing board and finally the applicant

should ensure that the footprint of the

relocation site is outside of the AE

flood plane the proximity of the new

Digital support structure to the a flood

plane boundary is such that the design

of the proposed location cannot be

confirmed uh planing Bureau staff

recommends the request be approved for

the following reasons the variance

relief requested by the applicant is

intended to offset the loss of 18

structures within with 30 signage faces

at various points along the stretch of

80 of Interstate 83 running through the

city due to the highway widening project

and a similar proposal was reviewed and

approved by the zoning hearing board in

November

2023 uh and as the property is located

in an industrial and auto oriented

Corridor and will face a widened Highway

and railroad its installation should not

be detrimental to the general character

of the neighborhood thank you uh could

you state your name address and

relationship to the project go first

morning or afternoon evening hey I'm

Andy reok I uh our office at Lamar is at

308 South 10 Street Le Moine I always

introduce myself as a tall skinny

billboard guy I'm celebrating my 40th

company anniversary in February and my

retirement on March

31st but not before I cry a little bit

about this i83 road widening project

U thrilled that you guys take a couple

minutes with us tonight thank you okay

uh Michael Adams could you talk into the

microphone oh sorry this is being

recorded all right uh Michael Adams uh R

the real estate manager for Lamar

Harrisburg 308 South Pence Street uh Le

Mo

Pi uh both of you have heard the staff

report uh with the um conditions are you

acceptable of those conditions uh yes we

are yes we are okay uh did you want to

add anything to the report or uh I would

like to add one thing to it because I

forgot to put it in I'll I forgot tocl

the

overlay this is the basic overlay of the

city number

structur it's updated everything you see

in red and yellow is impacted

it kind of helps looking at it in terms

of

scope how big this is I know you're

fully aware they've taken everything

through the city that gives you an idea

of the impact

number I just

forgot um Commissioners I have no

questions at this time time and uh I'll

start with the Commissioners about any

concerns or questions and I'll start

with commissioner

McKinzie uh thank you Joe uh I think the

applications made was fairly well

documented laid out most of the

questions I would have had and U you

know I think that ultimately we're we're

we're losing a little bit of clutter but

gaining something else which is

typically seen in most industrial

districts on inter highways of 14 Lanes

or whatever it's going to be at that

point so um I think the conditions that

the city is proposing made

sense commissioner

o yeah I seems pretty straightforward I

think six transitions per minute is

won't be much of a distraction to to the

driver so yeah I'm in favor of

it commissioner I have any questions

commission

M I don't have any questions believe the

applicant substantiated the uh the

variance criteria and the the need for

this so fine with

it commissioner Jordan no

questions is there anyone from the

public for against this project and I'll

start to my

left the middle and there's no one to my

right Commissioners as you said this is

pretty straightforward could I get a

motion Mo to approve

conditions second moved in second to

approve this with the conditions all

those in favor state by saying I I I

thank

you and

exensions motion carried good luck

gentlemen and good luck with your

retirement thank you I'm excited about

but we have one more then then I'm

definitely going we're number two on the

agenda as well yeah I'm trying to W you

off here

I okay this is U the item number two and

this is a baron special reception for

3737 and 3745 North 6th Street it's also

Zone indd it's Follow by Michael in with

Lamar Advertising this one is to install

a single sided billboard with a

electronic changeable message for

utilizing the L technology y uh so the

applicant is proposing to Rel locate an

existing two-sided static face billboard

with a single-sided billboard featuring

an internally illuminated LED sign face

on one side The Proposal requires the HB

approval of three variances one to allow

for off- premise signage taller than

permitted by W per section 7 7-

32514 A5 of the zoning code one for the

proposed signage to have an

electronically changeable Message Board

utilizing LED technology per section 7-

32514 A6 of the zoning code and one to

allow an off- premise sign within 200 ft

of a residential lot line um And to

clarify the residential lot lines are

actually in squ Township so not actually

sure whether they applied here but I

feel thought it was important to um

include that in case it became an issue

at the zoning hearing board meeting um

the subject property is comprised of two

separate tracks that total 043 acres and

featuring and feature a

3979 foot structure which was

constructed in 1957 the properties are

bounded by heaster road to the north

Northfolk southern railroad tracks to

the east Interstate 81 to the South and

North 6 Street to the West this detached

structure features elements of a

vernacular commercial architectural

style character defining features

include

the varied facade treatments the various

building expansions The partially

enclosed outdoor deck along the front

elevation and the small freestanding

sign in the Northwestern Corner the main

entrance features a full view metal door

set within a simple wooden surround two

similar doors provide access to the

outdoor seating area ministration

primarily consists of three single pane

windows on the side elevation and a

single pane window flanked by 8 over one

windows on the front elevation structure

is tapped with a variety of roofing

materials including standing seam metal

roofing over the front cable roof and

the porch roof gravel Roofing over the

main structure and rubber roofing at top

the small additions on the side rear

elevations a majority of the property is

occupied by an accessory surface parking

lot with a strip of GL grass lawn along

the North 6 Street Frontage and grass

lawn with a buffer of mature trees along

the railroad tracks property differs

from the surrounding residential

neighborhood in both use and design and

thus does not contribute to the

architectural character of the street

skate the planning Bureau staff

recommends the request be approved for

the with the following conditions if the

board approves their applicant's request

as submitted the applicant will be in

conformance with rules and regulations

set forth by the Pennsylvania Department

of Transportation and receive approval

from set entity subsequent to decision

by the zoning hearing board and the

applicant will limit message transition

to six transitions per minute per

previous approval for a similar proposal

granted by the zoning hearing board

planning Bureau staff recommends the the

request be approved for the following

reasons the applicant has previously

received relief for an electronically

changeable LED message board from the

zoning hearing board in November 2023

and both the current proposal and the

related one at 833 Paxon Street will

result in the consolidation of static

signage faces via LED message boards

creating an overall reduction in the

amount of visual light with respect to

the height the proposed off- PR sign

will retain the same height as the

existing sign located 147 ft east of the

proposed site and is necessary to permit

visibility to passers by on the elevated

highway to the South uh the applicant's

off- premise signage mitigates potential

impacts on Residential Properties to the

north and west by proposing a one-sided

billboard which faces East overlooking

the Northfolk southern railroad tracks

and warehouses along Industrial Road and

finally because there is an existing

billboard visible to surrounding

residents that is being relocated as

part of this requ request the project

will not introduce a new off- premise

sign and th will not create a new visual

obstruction okay thank you Jeff uh again

uh you you gentlemen heard the staff

report um with the two conditions are

acceptable those yes we

are

um I think question I have is um when I

looked at one of your pictures uh it

looks like the

um the sign is on the parking lot of

that bar of restaurant up there that

that is correct uh we back in 1999 one

of the predecessors to Lamar we actually

have a billboard e

so we're working with the owner to on

what how on how we do that essentially

at the end of the day we take

up so we have uh we actually have

ownership because that was my

concern you talked to the owner of that

yes I know they have that lot there well

I sent him a copy of this proposal I I

sent him a complete copy of The Proposal

I've been on and off with him we've been

working working on this for two years

two and a half three years in trying to

figure out we initially tried that to

figure out a way to possibly make it

work inside of there what I can do

there's a picture you can see about what

with here I'm not I'm a visual person I

like

pictures you can see that we're not kind

of like trying to pull the wo over your

eyes here if you look at the top pict

at the bottom

this that's a shot from one of our CRS

essentially when you're standing at the

pole of the

billboard if you touch the one pole you

can almost touch the the the rail post

it's not safe for our people or anybody

else to be in there we were we have 67

leases with no folks up so let's just we

tried to work everything out and it just

became a point that there's no way we

can do can you can operate

that okay and you you basically said you

have talked to the owner of the

restaurant yeah yeah uh yep uh George

okay that's my only question I have so

far uh Commissioners again if you have

any concerns or

questions I'll start with commissioner

McKenzie I have none I think the same

comment as a previous uh application

apply

commissioner Jeffrey I Mr your comment

about

subsequent this appears to be in suqu

Township uh so there is a weird little

strip on the west side of the um uh

railroad tracks above

81 where some of the properties are in

the city and some of them are not this

is one like literally these two

properties uh are located in the city

and then a little bit further north um

as you get toward Linglestown Road there

are a few uh that are in the city as

well um so it is a unique um context uh

for this uh particular request well then

Mr G's not relevant to the issue but Mr

G's rest is that in suqu Township or is

that no that's in the city is that right

yeah I have no further I have no

questions it's pretty cut and dry I do

know

that

um commissioner read no questions

commissioner

mer I guess one question so you

mentioned you know relocating the the

billboard the poll I mean looking at the

the draft sketch planned um is it taking

up truly taking up just one parking

space yeah one parking or is it more

because you need more clearance around

it no it takes up one essentially the

difference when you look at a a what I'm

going to say is a flat piece of paper on

a survey that board is 50 some on bottom

is 50 some feet on the air essentially

it's TW give or take 12 square feet it's

a circle about yay big

what we'll do is and if and the proposal

we will tuck that poll as close as we

can with the foundations and stuff to

the to that property line to try to

impact the property owner release

the our goal is so he can operate we

like

to it's always always helpful but no I I

think beyond that I I understand the the

cause you know the reason for the

relocation so no other questions uh

commissioner George

no um no further questions on concern I

had was also about the the property

owner being in the loop so with that and

easement looks like

we're is there anyone from the public

for against the project I'll start to my

left Center and no one's to my right

again this is straightforward

commissioner got I get a

motion so moved with conditions there a

second second

break the tie there you you can give it

to

Don thank

you uh it's been moov to Second for

approval of this project with the

conditions all those in favor state by

saying I oppose and OBS motion carried

good luck thanks for your he good luck

with re now you can retire I hope you

have a lot to

do take

I think I have everything we're on item

number three this is a special exception

for 2300 North 7 Street it's Zone N

D is followed by I messed your name up

just say it now it's all Al

yep with

Mo thank you me

LLC uh this is to request relief from

the off street parking requirements

associated with a meet process and

use uh so the applicant is proposing to

establish a meat processing use on site

and is requesting relief from the off

street parking requirements Associated

for such use outlined in section 7-

327.2 of the zoning code forther

regulations the proposed use would

require One Park working space for each

1,000 square ft of gross floor area or

one space per for each employee based on

the floor area of the building the

proposed use would require seven all

street parking spaces property at 2300

North 7 Street is a18 acre lot featuring

a 672 square foot structure which was

constructed in 1850 property is bounded

by the property of 2322 North 7th Street

to the north and west North 7th Street

to the East and Emerald Street to the

South the semi-detached structure

features elements of a vernacular

Industrial architectural style character

defining features include the original

brick facade which has largely been

encapsulated by standing seam metal

siding although portions are still

visible the original metal shop windows

on the front elevation and the stepped

parapet wall on the front elevation

there are three doors into the property

including including two providing direct

access to the sidewalk along North 7

Street and one into the vehicular access

area at the rear of the building located

next to a garage door providing access

to the building interior all our solid

metal doors with those on the front

being accessed by short flights of

concrete steps with railings penetration

consists of five metal divided light

windows on the front elevation the

structure is topped with a gable roof

clad in asphalt shingles there are small

strips of grass along the front and side

of the building the alterations to the

structure over time primarily the

covering of windows in the original

brick masonry facade have detracted from

the industrial historic character of the

structure thus although the property is

located along a heavily industrial

Corridor the building only makes a minor

contribution to the architectural and

historic character of the streets

Gap planning Bureau staff recommends the

request be approved with the following

conditions uh the applicant must remove

the informal parking spaces along the

rear of the building as such spaces

prevent vehicular access to the subject

property and the property to the north

uh the applicant should create a secure

indoor location for bike storage or

construct a concrete pad with bike racks

in the grass adjacent to the vehicular

access point and finally the applicant

must install physical obstructions along

the curb along the frontage with both

Emerald Street and North 7 Street which

prevent illegal sidewalk parking oberved

during site visits to and by the

property and uh the Planning Commission

may recall that we made this a condition

for um a recent review on South 17

Street um for a barber shop there which

the applicant didn't in fact install uh

the plan Bureau staff recommends the

request be approved for the following

reasons approval of the zoning relief

request will enable the occupancy and

productive reuse of a property that has

been vac since

2018 and there is sufficient on street

parking along the property Frontage to

accommodate worker vehicles and the

applicant is committed to providing

secure bike storage for

workers thank you de could you state

your name address relationship to the

project yeah uh my name is sad ali um

the address is 23007

Street

umid okay and you heard the staff report

are you a acceptable of the three

conditions so I had a question regarding

there's already

sign uh no we wanted uh physical

obstructions um along the curb to

prevent people driving onto the sidewalk

which is frankly pretty persistent uh

along our seventh street along these

particular uh areas uh but something

like even just like a small concrete

block or something like that to prevent

maybe a small metal post or something uh

is what the applicant for 425 South 17

Street

uh it would need to be a physical

obstruction I think anything less than

that would not have the intended

effect uh so have you ever seen like a

concrete Cube or something like that

yeah to prevent basically a vehicle

being able to drive up onto

the on the building Frontage of emerald

in South 17th

Street so basically you know enough that

it would prevent again the driving onto

the

sidewalk you see a lot in that

area that would

actually uh there are grass strips

between the sidewalk and the curb that

it can go like right

there you can probably if it's not clear

you can work with J yeah not too

sure and that would be and and and at

the end of the day that would be the

property owner responsibility um but uh

again we want to make sure we're um you

know keeping sidewalks clear uh and the

property owner themselves has a

theoretically an interest in making sure

that people are

parking it's

around and and um we're happy to discuss

some Alternatives um that would you know

work for this particular area

uh removing the two parking spaces so I

note that um there are parking spaces

lined uh in that area there I'm not sure

when that was done but the ones directly

behind the building uh prevent cars from

driving into the garage door there so

they're not legal or formal parking

spaces there so those just wouldn't be

lined in the future yeah like

um Jeff

you if you eliminate those so you're

saying he'll have enough spaces without

those yeah there's two there's two you

can create on site at the back end of

where that vehicular access area is that

would not prevent any cars from driving

into either this site or again the

property of the north which this is also

the access for that um and there would

be um sufficient on street parking

otherwise plus if the applicant's

providing space for his workers to bike

if that's how they get there um that

should meet the uh criteria that the

zoning code has to allow for relief from

off street

parking I think did you say seven was

the number uh yeah based on the Flor

area so he's covered yeah it would be

for five

spaces okay uh that's all I have uh

commissioners

if you have concerns or questions I'll

start with commission not

McKenzie no I think the city's U propos

Solutions the one that makes sense we

just can't have cars backing up into

pedestrians that's really what it's

about we can increase that request to

the

five you know and the two on

site commission yes uh so explain the

meat processing what will be taking

place here at the plant so basically we

bring

in and then ship it off to supermarkets

or okay

um does David plyy own the building yeah

somewhere along the line he got a great

deal on red corrugated

siding it's on every building in North

seven Street a dead giveaway and Cameron

okay yeah Cameron he's taking over

Cameron too yeah yeah make him pay for

that the that the well I

technically all right then I guess you

can't make him pay for the

uh whatever it is that Jeffrey wants you

to put into to stop the parking I have

no further

questions commission re I have no

questions commission

Eric uh yes I I do have a couple

questions I apologize Jeff but I am not

following the the parking situ situation

here and what you're requesting you do

so you're remove like is this lot not

part of their parcel the building uh it

is it is part of the parcel um but if

you look at it I'm not sure who drew

those lines on there but I think

somebody maybe in the past did that to

try and create parking sure um but

they're not legal parking spaces and as

the applicant notes in their sketch site

plan they have the two spaces to the

left there and the two spaces to the

right right uh on their sketch site plan

with a presumably I guess a drive AIS

between them but the ones on the right

would block the garage door um access to

this property as well as a smaller

garage door into the building at 2322

North 7th Street to the just to the

north of that um and and the reason I'm

doing it maybe this applicant would be

fine not driving their vehicles in um

but if you're creating formal parking

spaces through this process they would

theoretically apply to a future use and

maybe a

future um uh business on this property

would be an auto repair shop um where

you would drive into the building and

therefore having those parking spaces

right in front of the door then would be

problematic and then they'd have to find

a solution for the parking so we just

want to make sure that is clear that

those spaces are not counted as legal

you know formal spaces for the purposes

of providing the off Street okay and

you're saying he can keep the ones two

on the left yeah I believe they can

provide two there without in the way of

access to the other building so now he's

requesting five off Street parkes

correct okay and but when I look at the

photos of the street it there's no

parking signs all around the building so

where yeah I asked in your report it

says that the app there's space for them

to park along the front edge of the

building but there's really not there's

no no parking signs I I I asked the city

engineer about that because I was like

well why isn't there any parking here

this to be a reasonable place to have uh

parking and he told and he just got here

so he hasn't been here very long but he

told me he'd look into it he said

looking at it he's like yeah I'm not

sure where we have those signs either

they look relatively new um and uh I

know in certain cases that has been uh

done in the past where our um city

engineers's office has gone out and put

like no parking signs because somebody

from the community has asked for that

and with in our Communications with them

we've said you know well that's not a

legal driveway curb cut so can you go

out and remove those signs and I think

maybe this was a response to something

like that but it

seems unwarranted uh for this area

because it's a one-way traffic there and

there's uh sufficient um space to park

on both sides and drive so when I talked

to the city engineer he seemed to be of

the mind that those could eventually um

be removed because he didn't understand

why they were there either um and so

it's my anticipation that that that that

will be the case who would be the one to

put that in motion then does the

applicant have to do that or no I think

that would be handled internally within

the city between myself and the city

Engineer's Office okay which would then

make sense why you'd want to put

barriers then along that especially if

those no parking signs go away okay

um one other question for the applicant

do you have how do you anticipate your

deliveries coming in like are they going

to be large trucks no they're mostly box

trucks and okay um going to be coming in

the

morning not are they utilizing this

garage door through here there'll be no

cars

yeah okay no other questions

thanks uh commissioner Jordan yes um

Jeffrey so um just H you back in off

an's com possibility maybe he was doing

that for daylighting the intersection or

like since it's at the corner maybe that

spot yeah um I I don't think so for a

couple reasons um one it's that full

length all the way up to there um uh and

in my calculation of available potential

on street parking spaces I did remove 20

feet from the uh intersection um which

is standard um and two because the

traffic is one way going west there so

in theory it it would be different if it

were coming eastbound there you wouldn't

want a car parked where somebody might

be walking out but because all the

traffic will be going that way you'd be

able to see anybody walking up and down

Seventh Street anyway um so I like I

said I think sometimes there's a um

response to a public complaint or

something like hey we'd like to PR

parking here but there's really not a

justification for it so it's kind of

just like okay we'll go out and put a

sign there um but and and like I said in

my conversations I didn't it didn't

sound like there was a justif a

justification that they could tell why

those yeah um yeah if if you're ad

minable to condition number three

working with Jeffrey to figure out what

type of obstructions to keep from

parking on the sidewalk I have any

questions thank

you is there anyone from the public for

against this project start to my left no

one in the middle anymore

you all leave with me uh Commissioners

again straightforward um can I get a

motion motion to approve with the

conditions as stated there a second

I'll it's been moved and second for

approval with the conditions all those

in favor state by stay I I I opposed and

motion carried good luck thank

you if I could before Mr Ali

leaves um and it has nothing to do with

your current application Mr Ali which is

why I didn't bring it up again but the

law Bureau would like to on the record

ask you as a corporate citizen in

Harrisburg to come and speak with us

about your other properties and coming

into compliance on your trash bills

thank you okay thank

you

um

oh okay under o business I think

um brought up by of

course favorite commissioner about the

market

and Jeff if you both of you could I

guess update me and I know I've seen it

in the and I wonder about what's going

on there uh so um I haven't had any um

exposive conversations with the

administration about um what next steps

are or um what um the decision making

kind of been is that has led us to where

we are here I was kind of um you know

saw the story as everybody else did and

uh about the proposed design I know I've

had some preliminary conversations with

the Architecture Firm that was selected

about some conceptual um aspects of both

the building and the site about uh you

know what the plaza would look like

whether it would be a Plaza on the East

End um but outside of those uh uh

Communications I really haven't um had

much other interaction regarding the um

Broad Street Market and the next steps

um so I'm anti ating uh those

conversations may be coming in the next

you know week or weeks or months ahead

here uh but other than that I don't

really have an

update yeah I guess along along those

lines it looked fairly well down the

pike and I think just using the mayor's

own words that I have selected a

solution I'm glad to unveil it um I'm

going to reference a couple of requests

for proposal one for construction

management the list of services from

March of last year and also from last

August uh The Architects and I'll read

out of section

uh uh page three page four um item IV

the duties under this contract for the

construction manager coordinate with

City and other authorities having

jurisdiction ahj to as entitlements

rights restrictions approval process for

intended use is directed by the city uh

ahj may include but not be limited to

the city county state and federal

departments and agencies such as codes

planning not you think Planning

Commission falls under Fire Public Works

and historic review

board just put that out there um and it

goes on under different phases in the

project where that is supposed to happen

again as I look at the

architectural

contract was issued slight a little bit

later a couple of interesting things in

here the U architect was retained to uh

with a project scope to restore the

building within the requirements imposed

by its listing on the national register

uh complying with applicable code

requirements and meeting identified

vendor needs uh also went on to say as U

the note the project potential to

include two areas uh this would be

design of a Central Plaza area which

leads you to believe Street Cape not a

building and also certain upgrades for

the stone building U goes on to say as

this is a high-profile public project

periodic progress reports will be

provided to various media Outlets

through the city's Communications

office and uh going onward

here uh also says that under services

for the architect working with staff

Community

Representatives uh to define the

requirements for building

restoration uh I've been in contct cont

with the hard board chair indicate that

they have not been contacted relative to

this project uh this may include public

events and meetings with city council

from requested so it seems like this

thing's off the rails relative to uh

Community Connection or involvement and

if there was a project that I've ever

seen in my 28 years on the board that

has stirred people's hearts to try and

bring it back to life to the point we

even have people donating money to put

in install light bulbs and uh install

piping in a tent and all of a sudden the

project appears to be well down the road

as to what it's going to be um and what

I'm hearing is it's a $20 million

project the damage estimate that came

out and report that I received from the

uh insurance company indicated about $6

million wor the work and so it seems

like this thing is changed from

something that could be achievable using

insurance proceeds and perhaps a little

more little City funds to something

that's

multi-year achievable 5 years 10 years

to raise $14 million by that time the

vendor base will be killed off they will

be in Hershey they will be in West Shore

and the city will be left with another

loss just like William pen like losing

the Midtown Campus of hack losing the

mark the Harrisburg Hospital lands and

so on and this is one of the last things

remaining in one of the last functioning

areas of the city

and I'm just very concerned as a

Planning Commission member that we've

not heard seen or been consulted in any

way uh to this point in time and I would

ask if you can look into it further and

provide a report and I do believe

there's a couple folks here uh from

historic Harrisburg and I would if it'd

be all right ask them to provide comment

or input relative I don't know if you've

been contacted or

had could you come up microphone

hello my name is Christopher zy I work

with David Morrison at historic

Harrisburg Association um pretty much he

asked me to come down here today to

reiterate um our hope that the city will

continue to do its Outreach is due

diligence and connecting with the

community because it is a huge part of

the city as you all know and we just

want to make sure that the city is doing

its due diligence of connecting with the

neighborhood and all stakeholders as

well as the vendors to listen to what

their concerns and needs are if I may

ask has has historic perisburg been

approached by the city the design team

or the construction manager for input or

review not to my knowledge no okay

thank

you you just hear from moral

support I guess you

have um at this point I mean I think

it's we are you know in sitting in

obviously in talks to make sure that

everything goes the way it's supposed to

go um it's above my pay grade really at

this point but I will take the message

back that there is hopes that there will

be transparency and Community

involvement I think that that's what the

mayor is hoping to do um you know

there's going to be a bunch of rounds of

this things back and forth with city

council I do think there is a separation

in between the insurance proceeds that

you talked about that were estimated to

fix the brick building and that I think

is separate from the whole pot you think

that you discussed that includes a new

building so um I'm not authorized to

make any comments um as you said it does

come out of the mayor's office and the

office of

communications I will however um take

back that there is the Hope for everyone

zoning planning and the citizens to be

involved and I'm sure the mayor will

continue to be as transparent as she can

be in doing

that any other Commissioners have any

concerns or comments

on well I'll certainly just Echo you

know uh commissioner mck's uh comments

here and concerns that were raised I uh

fully agree with with what he brought

forth and um you know there's a lot of

questions um that came out after that

pen live article and her interview and

saying that a a design had already been

selected and then hearing after the fact

that not a single Community or

stakeholder had been engaged in the

selection of that design and that's very

concerning um as to how they're handling

this process um and you know are we

going to be handed a design at some

point for a formal review I mean are

they going to go through the planning

channels and and

approvals um but it is concerning that

other stakeholders have not been engaged

and the community has not been involved

and I I did uh see statement a formal

statement released by Eric Hagerty from

the Broad Street Market Alliance uh also

confirming that he had not been engaged

in any Communications um regarding the

design plans

um and then my other question would just

be around the financial aspect of what's

being proposed um where are the

additional dollars going to be raised

and how are we going to see this plan

successfully uh be constructed

commissioner

Jordan yeah just kind of in the same

vein as my fellow Commissioners here I

was kind of surprised to see the

Articles and I was a little confused

about the design for the possible third

building when unless I miss something I

didn't see any type of design or

commentary for the building being

restored so one it seemed like things

may be possibly out of

order so

a there's a miscommunication as far as

prioritization so um beyond that is

pretty much like everyone else here said

the expectation was that

citizenry the various bodies of you know

dealing with the city consulted

or presentation

design something prior to seeing

something in paper

yeah I'm same way it's surprising I

always look at the news on TV and like

all of a sudden this uh project comes up

and I'm thinking now it took them I

don't know two years to even get a tent

outside you know if you couldn't get two

people or three employers to do a an

tent and took them all those months and

then that that took a after the teach

volunteers did it and now they're going

to do this I don't know what to call it

this Castle or whatever it is is going

to be out there um I'm just like and

know it's causing all kind of confusion

I know seem like city council doesn't

know about it and they're having

problems and the mayor office going back

and forth so I and you know like you

said transparency we need that at least

so that we know what's going on so I you

know just that's we're rely on you guys

to keep us informed yeah well as I think

you know T has said um U we anticipate

that this will be kind of an inative

process and um that the road map is

still being out

looking forward to it if

that yeah good luck with that is there

anything else for the good of the

water if not can I get a motion for a

jman so moved s second

second you