Como criar uma cultura de aprendizado contínuo, Case Porto | Gestão de Pessoas #197

How to create a culture of

continuous learning throughout the company in

people management. This week we're going to delve into the

subject with

Anderson

Valadares, the company's superintendent of people and

culture at Porto Seguro. So if you want to

discover how to create and solidify this

culture in your company, stay tuned until

the end and follow our podcast.

Welcome to this episode of

People Management, your weekly

interview podcast released every Thursday at

7 pm for over 4 years on 10

different podcast platforms,

raising the bar by bringing you the

main HR case studies, trends, and best

practices of the moment. To begin,

I want to welcome

Anderson here. It's a great pleasure to have you here, my dear friend.

Thank you for the

invitation. Good morning, we're still on time.

Good morning to everyone who is

joining us now. I hope it will be an

excellent conversation with lots of learning.

Sure, how are you doing, PTI? Everything

alright? I'm great, super well. This is a subject

I really enjoy, so I'm very happy to be

here talking with Anderson and

understanding it a little better. Okay, I'll

start here. Good, Anderson, help me

understand, and then tell us a

little about your story and about

Porto. And I'll get right to it,

why are you working on this

learning culture? Why is it

important for Porto? Very well, so let

's start by talking a little about Porto. Porto is

a 79-year-old company, turning

almost 80 next week, and Porto has

undergone numerous

transformations over time,

thinking about business and innovation.

Perhaps the most recent, and perhaps one that

people don't yet know, is that in

recent years Porto has been transforming

its businesses into large verticals. So

before, we were Porto Seguro,

basically known in the

insurance market, and now we have four

major lines of operation: insurance,

Porto Seguro, banking, Porto

services, and Porto health. So we have a

large system within the company, so

it's a great challenge when we talk

about the perspective of people management and

especially when we talk about

learning, because there are

different needs in each of these

businesses. Speaking for myself, I've been

at Porto for almost

7 years, and within those 7 years there have been many

challenges. I started as a coordinator, went

to the business area, working in the line.

From a specific segment,

I returned to the institutional part. And then, over

time, adding the boxes,

adding the subjects and their challenges

very well, and answering the question about a

culture of continuous learning, I believe

that the times demand a much

more intentional learning

than we used to do. We talked

about

training, and it needs to be much more

strategic, especially connected to the

businesses. Thinking about Porto, we're

talking about four large businesses plus

the Holding company. This makes us

identify and transform each discovery

into learning. That is, that mistake

that we talk so much about, how do we

transform it into knowledge? And it's not

just individual knowledge, but how do

we also share

this knowledge, collectively? And

learning as a culture, I understand that

it can no longer be seen as that

single event, that specific punctual action.

It's much more than that.

Comparing it to

organizational culture, it's a

long-term job that we need to

sustain over time. Therefore,

connecting the culture of learning

through actions—and we can talk about

this later—formal and

informal actions, distinct learning objects

meeting the needs of

different personas, is important

within this theme. And when... We

look at the theme of learning culture

within Porto and it has a lot of connection

because it's part of our EVP, one of

our territories is learning, it's

perhaps one of the main territories

we have as a stronghold in Porto, and

understanding this, we can't

disconnect the importance of this theme.

If I'm talking to the outside world about something that

employees are experiencing and

valuing, how do I foster this

beyond this specific event? Uh-huh.

So we realize that

employees seek to stay with the

company, they seek this learning, and at the

same time they criticize and ask us to

deliver more opportunities and

more actions. So I understand that this

culture of continuous learning should

permeate the organization, not just because it's a

cool topic or a trendy topic, especially

since this topic only started being discussed

recently and many don't know what

learning culture is, we just

use the term. So having this

connection with the business, having this connection with

the people and culture strategy is

extremely important, in addition to delivering

a model, a vision, a

different angle to people about

learning. And Anderson, we know

that we come from decades

where the learning mindset was to do

basic training, you know? So,

you would go to technical school, then

to the job market, or basic training, then

college, then to the job market, or stay in

basic education, and from there you would go on. And then you would

do your entire professional journey

after that initial academic event in a

person's life, and eventually, at some

point, you would do an MBA. But that was

basically it; that was 90%

of what we'd see in the corporate world, let's say, in

that group of

learning events at the beginning of a career, or

specifically in the middle.

How have you been creating

this awareness that learning has

changed? It's no longer about

learning blocks at specific moments in life, but rather

accompanying a person's life throughout their

entire career, in this

fluid world we live in where

knowledge is changing every day, every

hour, right? Let me just add here,

you use the lifelong

learning methodology, right? That is, this

continuous learning, is that it too? Just so we

can understand a little more... um, good,

right? You're exactly within this

concept of lifelong learning, right? There's

a variation, right? Exactly. I believe that

here we have a great challenge, not

only within the corporate environment but

also outside of it, when we

talk about the learning model. Mentally, regarding career

advancement, I go from

junior analyst to full analyst, and so on.

And today we have

countless

opportunities. I understand that we are

still going through major

transformations in this regard because

when we think about a

learning culture, I have to understand

within my environment who these

enablers or even these

blockers are. So I can't just look at it from

one perspective; I have to understand if

the environment is conducive to

this learning continuing to happen. I

have to understand if I have a

learner—we call them, right?—an

intentional learner. If people actually have the

intention to learn new things given

the activity they are performing, what

they need at that moment. And there is an

extremely relevant question, which is

what is the role of leadership in

this process? Because leadership

can be a driver of learning,

and here, speaking of a learning culture, it can also be

a blocker. So understanding

these elements within the dynamics of the

organization is important to know

how you will act beyond

training, including formal training.

Because, in

my view, many still believe that the

best approach is... The classroom—and it's not

necessarily just the classroom—there

are countless ways we

learn. Our conversations today, our

chats, are a form of learning.

A project meeting is a form of

learning. We have rituals here, for

example, with all the leaders once

a month; there's a lot of content there that's

a form of learning. So the biggest

challenge, besides looking at these three

elements, is how we raise

awareness among people that they

can learn at any moment, that they have

this intentional perspective. But how do

you do that? Because, listening to

you, you bring up the 70/210 rule a lot,

which, despite being old, is still very common,

right? We talk about it all the time. So what

you just said is that 70% of our

time I learn in our daily lives, which is what

you're talking about. 20% I learn in

mentoring, in coaching, listening to a podcast,

right? To understand this exchange, and only 10%

in the classroom. What I notice

daily is that people don't realize, they are

n't aware that they are learning

all the time. How did you do that? Or

how are you doing it? I

would say that... We're on this journey because it's

hard work that won't involve the

entire organization. There will be people who

are committed and engaged, and there will be

people for whom it's not a priority

at that moment in their lives. What we

did to start all our work was

first, we did a major diagnosis.

And then I'll explain a little more about what

this "learning at Porto" means. We

looked at the past, how we operated, what

our practices were, and

we decided to engage all the

Training centers. Because as the People

and Culture area, we have a

transversal center. Uh-huh, but I have more than 20

Training centers within the

company. I have a

technology center, a commercial center, a

center for Brokers, and we didn't

have a standardization of what

experiences we were taking or what

learning is within Porto Seguro

because we were competing for the same

employees. So, professionals were

taking one approach, and technology was

taking another. So we brought these

centers together for the first time so that it wouldn't be

just a people-focused,

people and culture area job, but an

organizational one as a whole. And through this material,

we were able to understand what

our purpose was. As a company, all the

learning centers—so it's not just

me here, this is an important one—I

have someone in the commercial department who shares

this same purpose: how do

we propel people to their

full potential? Then we created

attributes, that is, to facilitate the way

we think about and develop

learning content, which involves

being singular and plural. In other words, I

have to understand their individuality,

how do I cater to them, but at the same

time, how do I connect all

my experiences to the business? Because

depending on my audience, if I don't

speak business language, they won't

receive me. Uh-huh, the same goes for PR

sustainability, for example. If I don't speak business language,

I don't even have access to the table. How do

we enhance this

through leadership? So there's a

process with leadership so that

they are the enablers of this on a

daily basis because we don't have

enough manpower to do it all. And how do we deliver a

diverse and innovative experience? And here

we're talking about how

we're going to package all this and deliver

a delightful experience. So this

allows us to sustain

learning at Porto, to

empower people, in a way, to

empower leadership, and to strengthen...

What learning means at Porto is clear, and

beyond that, what we did was

create a map where we were able to

establish which areas have an

open environment for learning,

what the people's interests are, to

identify whether I have this

intentional learning or not, and which

leaders enable or hinder this

learning. So we created a map

within the organization, and through this

map, since it's an organization with 13,000

employees in various areas, we're

trying to focus on certain personas, on

certain audiences, so that they can then

spread this information to other areas. So

we ended up using a large

diagnostic tool to understand

Directorate X: it has an environment, it has a

learning environment, but here I have a problem with

leadership. So here the focus is on working

with leadership, or a leader who

drives learning, but doesn't have an environment and doesn't

have this intentional learning environment. So

here's another approach: how do I help

the leader and how do I unlock this

environment? And sometimes these are simple actions

that we think are simple, but in

everyday life they don't happen, like the

leader saying, "Let's set aside an

hour a week to learn." This is

already an extremely

important signal when we talk about a

learning culture. So, these are the

elements that we've been practicing

daily, together with these other

core areas. But whether we like it or not, it's a

daily challenge because between learning and

delivering, the person is focused on the

delivery. So how can I

demonstrate to people that in the act of

working, they are also learning?

Common things we

hear in our daily work: a collaborator

asking to be developed because they

want more opportunities.

And then, when you look at them, they're the

collaborator with the most

challenging project, being more exposed, and

developing skills, but

nobody told them that this project

is a way for them to learn, and that

the manager intentionally put them there,

for example. We

constantly work on this form of

communication, and I would conclude by saying that

when we think about technology, how do

we have tools that allow us to

create communities and groups

that share knowledge, which is

also a way to boost this

within the organization? I don't know if I

answered your question, it was great, excellent. That's what

I perceive from what you're bringing me.

From what I understand, there's a focus

on the individual, right? With this

intersection of the map, which I found very

cool. So, this guides you, right?

Where do you need to do the

learning? But I was thinking,

as you said, there are four

verticals, and

you probably have a map looking at the business as a

whole, right? Because there are

individual needs, and I think that's an

important point here. But there's also the need for

business learning; that's also

within the map. That's not within the

map; that entered into another

strategy when we thought about what

the technological enablers were. So

we made a whole transformation in

terms of

tools so that we could

look again at what the

business needs are that will fit into this

tool, so that it wouldn't become

too manual. So, talking a

little about pain points, because it's not all joys

that we have today, our great

challenge, even corroborating with the

strategic planning that will be released in

2025-2020,

is how do I redo this map to

understand what skills the

banking business needs? It will be

different from the healthcare business. And through this,

we work on upskilling and

reskilling, having this platform as a

great enabler of this process. So, at this

moment, we are thinking about what

will be the best way for us to do this. Mapping is important

because I mentioned four verticals, but I

have more than 25 directorates and

over 100 products involving the

company, so there's complexity. And

here, the core areas are again

relevant because they can tell us, for example, what

will change the

pointer. So today I would say that HR is

undergoing a transformation in how

we connect these

learning elements, changing the business pointer.

And through this map, we understand that

we still intend to have this

movement. We don't yet have it in

fullness, uh-huh, that's very difficult,

right? Very difficult, I think, right?

One of the great strategic differentiators

of companies of the future is being able to

synchronize

people's development with market changes, uh-huh,

because in this liquid world

we live in, the tendency is for the

business to become misaligned with customer demand, with

segment demand. Uh-huh, and then through

knowledge you will generate this

convergence, and it's normal, right? The

company drifts there, right? It does

n't generate any learning, it drifts,

so the market changes sides, it's

floating there at sea. Or she's going down

a

different path, so it's a very

big challenge, the challenge of executing it, right

Anderson? And there's an important point

in your speech, and it is indeed challenging, which is

again how I look at the

business needs that are

important and that's what will change the

needle, but how we also have the

opportunity to look at the needs

of this employee. We're even

doing a pilot now with an

interesting tool because normally in the

market you buy a package of

courses or you plug in

some platform that will offer courses,

but you're already dictating what the form is,

what the learning object is,

changing the content. We're doing a

pilot now in which I look at the

business needs, link them to the

employee's needs, but they

have the option to choose what they want

within this development plan, the

best way they learn,

and then we make it

viable through this company that

we're piloting, options from the market, and it's

not just online, it can be in-person, it

can be mentoring, things that

normally we're stuck with in a

specific program. People are putting

all this together and he's going to put together this learning path.

Of course, there's guidance from HR, there's

guidance from the manager, but it's a big

pilot program we're doing to

understand if this will engage

people, because in a

learning journey we have a high

dropout rate regardless of the program. Uh-huh.

That's the biggest problem. I think

we were already here, you gave

me the answer before, which is

leadership. So if this leadership—

we always talk about frequency and

repetition, right? So if the leadership

works with frequency and repetition, this

process, that is, every Friday at 4

pm we're going to use it to

learn, and this is constant, you have

an alignment process and people

will understand that, oh okay, I'm learning—

because you have to have this awareness, besides

everything else, because Anderson probably went through

this. You do

climate surveys and then the person says, "

But I needed more

training," the response is, "Wow, I'm giving you

all this work here, you don't consider

this development?" So it's difficult

too, right? It's a challenge, right? There's also the

challenge of getting leaders to

understand that studying is working, right? Yes, that's

it, so anyway.

Here are two points that I think are

important: first, the leader should be an

example in this. Let's say, "Let's say

9 o'clock, but you do it, I don't

necessarily have to do it," so here we already

have the audio not matching the video,

regarding the influence of the

leadership role. But there's another side that

we need to

work on more and more: the word "

proactivity" seems to get

boxed in, but how does the employee

understand that they own their career

and that they should also

challenge things and seek this path? The

leader's role is fundamental. But what is

their role? This is important, and many times

we end up outsourcing it to the company or

the leader.

And then this clarification of "Oh, I want

more

training" might have to go through

a conversation, which is: maybe you're not

going into a classroom to receive

training, but you're going through

an experience that's worth much more

than 4 hours. But then, Anderson, there's a

question, right Anderson and Pa? I

think there's a difficulty in our

companies, and we in HR, in having

absolute clarity about roles, right? Because,

again, we confuse roles: what

is the responsibility of the

employee, what is the leader's, what is

the corporation's, behind the leader and the

employee? Because it's difficult; sometimes there

will be issues where the responsibility

is 70% the company's, 20% the leader's, 10% the employee's. So there's

a certain dynamic scale there, and then

when it comes to the subject of

training and development, what is the

proportion of responsibility here? So

I understand that, I don't know if

Anderson agrees with me, and we've already

talked about this in several other podcasts.

For me, there's a maxim: your career

is yours, don't hand your career over to

anyone. From the moment I have

this maxim, the responsibility

for development is mine. I don't know if I

agree, Anderson

120%. And then this changes because the

company, yes, it has the role of

providing, I think, depending on the

company, if it has the resources, it will offer

more courses, more development, more

strategic projects, that's all right, but

for me, it's the professional who has to seek it out. That's

more perfect, right?

I completely agree with your point. But

recently we did an assessment

for one of the biggest companies in Brazil

in its segment. It was a very

curious assessment because they

hired us to evaluate regional supervisors,

coordinators,

regional managers, for a

national manager position.

We evaluated, I think,

10 people, 10 managers for this

national position to help the client

choose which one to hire. It's frightening, isn't it?

And our opinion

for the client was somewhat in line with

that: the disinterest people have in

developing themselves. You had several

regional managers who didn't have

higher education. That's fine, today we live in a world where

people can learn in other

ways, they don't need formal education, all right,

but there's a limit to that, there's

a limit in my view at least.

And then I understand that this

clashes with another agenda, right? I mean,

the company wants to give opportunities to the

people who are already there, and they're absolutely right

because that works much better than

bringing in people from outside

because it generates a toxic effect on the

business, injecting people and neglecting the

people who are already there, including

people who have been with the company for 10 years. 5

years that gave their blood, alium. Uhum, but it's

that point of equilibrium of

correlating HR policies, right?

So you have a policy of giving

opportunities internally, you have a

policy of developing, and then you get to the

real case and there's someone there who hasn't even

finished college. It's difficult

because what are you going to do? The person

delivers on their goals, right? They're hitting targets,

they're loyal to the company, they have the

company culture, but they stopped there. So what do you do?

Push the person, right? But then you might

burn them out, right? I don't know if that happens at

Porto, right? The big point is sometimes

we want to push them, but the person doesn't have

the potential for the next

level, right? Anderson agrees,

we were very clear with the client in the

sense of saying, "Look, client, next of

these options, there are

professionals here that we identify

as B, more accurate on a scale, so

professionals there, not 8, 8.5, meaning

they are good, they meet targets, they have

potential, they have a sufficient learning curve

for a position of this

nature." But clearly, client, there are

much better people out there in the market,

but you have a tradeoff here, and I don't

know what's best for you. Do you think

the tradeoff is what will... It's up to

you to decide, but you can find a

much better person outside, but you'll create a huge

problem with that. You'll lose

two or three managers in the process,

right? I think this is a discussion that goes

beyond learning; it involves

various aspects of management and other

tools, and even... What is the

context? What is the dynamics

of this company? How long has it been around? Are they

old or

new? It's a complex text that,

assuming that the career belongs to the person,

over time they have to

set themselves these challenges and what are the

learning opportunities they will dedicate themselves to, aiming for something like, "

Oh, I want to become a

director," or "No, I want to be a great

specialist," or "I want to move to the

marketing area." The manager can't just say, "Oh,

you're going to the marketing area,"

so it comes from them. And then the manager becomes

a great facilitator in the conversations.

So, within this context, it may be that

the person is actually uninterested. It

may be that the leader has never had

a career conversation with this person,

and that at some point, when they don't

go through a process, they will blame

the company or the process for not being

enough, but... What feedback

is also being given to former employees? And for

me, that's the exact lesson. So there's a

whole dynamic involved, and

many people will only be able to get out of their

bubble when they miss some

opportunities or when they find themselves

without a foundation, when there's a layoff. Why?

Because maybe they didn't keep up with the

movement. So only from that

moment will they become aware.

But then you're putting the company in a

role that I agree with and find very

interesting and relevant, which is that of a

career mentor, right? I mean, you

're saying, "Look, so-and-so, the opportunity

was this. You weren't chosen

because of this, so you want

opportunities, so we recommend

that." I think that's super intelligent

because... And the main point here is

why I did this process, right? So,

I needed a National Manager

because there's a goal behind it, right? There's a

business need behind it. So I

get quite worried in a situation

like this, of "we're not going to give them a chance

because it's good," as long as it doesn't

impact the business. Yes, because maybe it will

delay things more, have more difficulties,

and we know that I'm going to hire

someone from outside and it will take them about 4 or 5

months to adapt. But on the other hand,

if this person who is more or less making a

mistake, it will take me a few more months,

right? So that's the choice that has to

be made, right? That's the tradeoff,

exactly, between the needs of the

business. And then there's a big

discussion that touches on learning, and

we talk a little about whether to

conduct the selection process or look at

opportunities through skills.

What are the fundamental skills

that will meet my

business needs? Because we're

not going to find a hero or

heroine, but I can see through the

skills. And then there's a bias, right? It's

difficult to look at this aspect and see that it

will meet this perspective, and there are

other elements that I will have to

develop along the way,

instead of taking a ready-made person from the

market who also has points to be

developed. So there's

a discussion about what is fundamental, what

I don't compromise on, like English. Oh, I need

English, but you don't use it, so you do

n't actually need English, so it won't

prevent this

person's participation. So there's a bit of this

discussion, but there's also, I always like to,

the issue of the business, the role of the

organization and having collaborators. I

have examples here of people who

participated in internal recruitment 36 times.

In fact, this person is

looking for a career, an opportunity.

What are the signs behind 36

processes in which they are not passing?

And I guarantee that they were in eight

different areas: PR, HR, production. That's

it. They want another opportunity. They

're saying that, right? But that's where I was going to get to,

Anderson.

Following the careers of thousands of

people, I can speak with great

authority. I've talked to many

vice presidents and company directors who

don't have the slightest notion of

career planning, not the slightest

notion. So it's very difficult for a

professional to put themselves, for most

people, to

put themselves in a position of analyzing their

career from back to front,

holistically, to

assess soft skills, to understand where the

soft skills match. This

holistic strategic

career thinking is very difficult, and I

even realize it's a bit ungrateful because there are

many extremely committed people who have been with

the company for 20 years, 15 years, they gave their all

there, and they are...

Excuse the anal, but that

loyal dog, right? Uh-huh, the guy is there,

feels the whole project, and goes and does it and delivers it,

and the guy is thinking more about the group and the

company. Generally, they are people with

huge hearts, right? Because he

's the deliverer, right? He's the guy. And then, out of

nowhere, he leaves the company and, well,

he hits his head on the ceiling at the company,

and he never thought about his career, he was

always thinking about the group, right? So it's a

very big dilemma in this issue of

learning culture because, to

enable it, you need to have a culture

of thinking about career, right? Maybe that was

my question here in the

work you are doing on this

learning culture within this

career process, and today, no, today

we only focus on this career perspective, it's not

yet within this discussion.

This is a subject that even appears

in research, uh-huh, but that we

need to structure and how to connect these

themes. We were in a

recent discussion which is how, in a

performance evaluation process, a

person can reflect and say, "

Maybe I would like to go into

marketing." "Look, I see myself working in

sales." This is great input

for the area, for the manager, and... For the area of

people to understand, wow, great, how

can I guide this person

then? How can I have a

career conversation with them? So these are elements that

we still think about throughout the journey

that will later connect with

learning, which will be a

great enabler. And again, here there is a role

for

leadership, training, and the leader doing

nothing about it. I'll give you an example: it should happen

perhaps in most places, or only

in France.

Sometimes we see people

saying, "Okay, but so-and-so

had the opportunity, I didn't have

the opportunity." Oh, because I complained in

the engagement survey that, like, "Look,

I think it needs more, I think

this career issue isn't clear, how

much are you giving clear feedback to

this person?" Because it's not about the other person, it's

about them, what they need to do,

how? What are the paths? So

this is one part, and instead

of just pointing things out, having a sincere conversation

with the leader, saying, "I would really like to know

what I need to do for..." For

me, it's always a two-way street. Without a

doubt, without a doubt, there's the leader who

represents the company and there's the employee.

I even wanted to bring this up because at

Tigre, we already have a system where people do

performance reviews and then

a career interview that they do

in the system. And in the career interview,

they state where they want to go, so that's

their succession plan. And

from that, the manager talks in the

feedback about the past year and what

they want for the future, and that

's really great when the leader does their

job. So when the leader studies, reads, and

says, "Oh, great, you're in HR but you want to go

to Marketing. So how can I

help you in this process to get there?"

And then it's already linked to the Individual Development Plan (IDP) because

people need to understand that everything is

interconnected, right? It's not just the performance review,

career interview, succession, IDP; it's all

interconnected. But I still emphasize,

and excuse me to those who

disagree, but I am responsible for

my career, yes, there's no way around it. But...

I see the conclusion I

'm reaching here, right? I think there are

three elements in the reasoning:

you have the demands of the current position, yes, and

where the company is going, and how

that will affect you in your current position. In

other roles, and what that entails in terms of

learning demands and

career plan, so I understand it's

a process of communication, how

the company is communicating where

it's going and what

challenges and necessary learning opportunities that will bring.

Excellent, the company is communicating what

needs to be mastered in depth to

perform the function well. I know

exactly what I like, what I don't

like, where I want to go. So, in

fact, I think it's a flow of

information, a triangle of

communication channels that will... That's right, they will be going

back and forth to develop, right?

I agree, it's important, and it makes a lot of

sense thinking about it as an

organization because then I'll be retaining

this professional, I'll be developing

them within my team. So for the

company, this is fundamental. But if I

had to choose one element, that is,

if the company didn't communicate

properly, if it didn't have this clear... Of

course... And I have this clarity, maybe it's not

here in this company that I should stay,

another place... In other words, of all the

elements, we always come back to

make the decision. So, all are

important, they are fundamental. But if

there is... Missing a little leg, I...

Maybe I have the best

decision-making ability; I'm the one who decides in the end if it's

worth it or not.

Follow the vote, follow the

vote, very good, excellent discussion, this is

very good because I really find myself

thinking about these complaints, you

know? Wow, look at the program that Porto

is doing, an immense job, an

incredible diagnosis. Probably in the

next engagement evaluation there will be "I

'm not well developed," you say

no, and the funniest thing is that they'll

ask the person who applied for 37

positions, "Uh, are

you clear about

what you want for your career?" "Of

course not." So there's a kind of

psychological issue there too, of

awareness, humility,

self-knowledge, self-awareness,

right? What I'm saying makes sense, right? There's

a profound

issue there, it's profound.

Let me go to... I was just going to

add something, like this: my

intention is in fact what I'm going through,

so I'm

applying because I really want and

desire it, and I'm going to work for it,

or I simply want to get out of where I

am, and this is the way... What I'm seeing is the

easiest way to grasp it, great, but what

message are you sending? I think that's

another discussion,

but what message am I sending to the

organization? So let's move on to a

practical part here, I wanted to

understand if you... I understand that it's still the

beginning, but do you already have any

metrics? How are you

using them to measure the

success of the project? Can you already

identify the metrics we

use? They are

perhaps well-known metrics, so

we use NPS in all our

actions, and a perhaps positive point that

gives us insight into whether we

are on the right track is that our

NPS is around 92, wow, very good,

very high. In the training, the sum

of the NPS of the training is exactly that.

When we look at all the actions,

92 is very rare.

We rarely have an NPS

below, for example, 5. And when we do, we

have a look to understand what

happened. So recently we were

creating a different experience for

managers and the NPS came out bad, it came out below

5. Let's understand what happened. It

was the experience... ...stopped

paying attention to that Persona,

the content was bad, I stopped

delivering learning objects to

meet the unique needs, so this

gives us a perspective that allows us to correct things

quickly. This action, because I don't

need to keep it for the

whole year, is important. When we look at

another indicator, which is the no-show rate that

tracks the market (if I'm not mistaken,

the market has an average of 12% today, the

current data shows we're at 3.5), which is a

very low number, very low indeed. I have

several in-person events, meaning I

have a high investment,

so here I'm talking about efficiency to the core.

3.5 per month or per

year, the 3.5 is given now, speaking up to

August, 3.5, so I'm almost at the end of the

year with an extremely low number. Wow, it

's very low indeed, very good. When

we look at the number of logins on the

platform, more than 12,000, when we

look at the volume of hours, we're talking about

more than 21,000 hours of training. And there's

a beauty in the action we took

in the area of

content sharing when we brought the

core teams together. Think about that... HR had its

training package, the sales area

had its technology package, we combined

all of that, generating a volume of

knowledge from the PR organization of over

400 courses, various types of learning paths.

So this combination and

sharing allowed us to bring

information and content to many

more people. So that was

another gain, but the reflection I

make—these are nice, impressive numbers—

we can understand, for

example, if we have, among the

people we invited and who

are actually in the room, if we have high

performance in that room or even an

overbooking to properly utilize this

investment. So we have numerous

indicators, but the reflection I make—and

perhaps this is the future of what

learning culture is—is a

larger corporate movement to stop looking at the

numbers, because often when we

look at the numbers, we base our

decisions on numbers, not

necessarily on learning and

fostering it. But this is a

broader discussion that involves raising

awareness throughout the organization.

Many times we end up

discussing, "But how much did you

spend on this action?" And the

question isn't how much I spent, but rather how

much will I change the needle on, and

I don't necessarily need to stay.

Controlling the numbers is important because otherwise the

discussion will focus on the numbers

and not the bigger goal. But here, it's

an evolution, and that's very difficult. You know,

whoever is listening will probably

agree that I have, well, more than

20 years of experience in this, and

studying training and

learning metrics is very difficult because

then you get into this process of... well,

what impact did the business have? It's difficult

to measure that, right? Because

how much results did the sales training actually generate,

and how much of that result actually has

to do with the training. Uh-huh. So that's why,

for me, culture is the

most important thing.

I believe that

developing people will make

the company better, right? It's a value

for the company. Great point, Pat. I think

you

brought up a principle of reasoning there that

correlates in some way with

this religious thing, right? There comes a point where

you don't have a logical explanation; you

either believe in God or you don't.

I think it's a bit like that,

meaning the numbers go up to a certain point, right? If you go beyond that, you have to

believe

in the learning culture. That's it, right?

Because you have multiple factors there

that can... ...generating that output at

the end, and if we stay in this discussion of "it's

more this, it's more that, it's more the

other thing," we won't conclude anything, right? Uh-huh, I

agree. I'd even add something else. And

then, for us in the human resources area,

because it's actually challenging to

mobilize and raise awareness, but there are

countless other connections if we

think about it from an ESG perspective. How

can I access this

content? Because I would say, maybe I'm

wrong here, that 70-80% of

organizational budgets are allocated... So,

for leadership with a low volume of

investment for employees, exactly.

So, you can also, throughout

this journey, try to connect with other

themes to give more access, to give

more opportunities both inside and

outside. So, for me, learning

is also a great enabler of the way

we invest, not only looking at it from the

perspective of money, but also from the perspective of access and

opportunity, which correlates everything

we've talked about so far. Excellent,

excellent, this culture of yours...

also, because we've talked a lot

here about the internal aspects, right? Also, look outside,

you have this platform, yes, I don't know if

I can call it a platform, anyway, this

platform also facilitates the

learning of the external public, yes.

Excellent, excellent question within

these core areas. And again, what is

learning at Porto? It's both internal and

external, and then there's the issue of

coherence. We have an area that looks only

at our service providers,

those professionals who provide

service in the gym, who go into the

client's home. So, there's a whole

standardization that carries the organization's culture

but also a whole

technical apparatus. So, we have a

core just looking at more than 12,000

providers. This is a huge asset,

and when we look, for example, at

brokers, who are our main

and most important partners—we're

talking about more than 30,000 brokers—

we also have a specific core

to deliver content to them. Not only

content, but we're also working on

programs like

succession planning, considering that this is a

market that, when you look at it, has a

certain stereotype, but there are

many opportunities. And even

development in other areas. And

when I think about the Institute, that's another

social sphere, how we support and

develop young people, and then we're

talking about employability to offer

to the market. And then I'm looking at the

community as a whole. So yes,

we work in these areas, that's really

great, isn't it? And I really

like it because it's related to SG,

right? In other words, we're developing the

community, we have a

greater purpose here, right? I'll even mention this:

this week we

launched Educa Tigre, which is

both internal and external, and in the

first hour we

had more than 700 people registered already.

Wow, it's for the external public, so

whoever wants it can go after it, and it's free, right? So whoever

wants it will go after it, because for the company

this is also important, right? In the end,

everyone wins here, so I'm

happy that Porto also does this

because at the end of the day we're

looking at the development of the

country's economy, right? Uh-huh, because if I grow, this company,

you're doing, we're doing

here, we're making

the country grow too, so it's really

great, congratulations, very good! And

Anderson, I wanted to finish by

asking you to share some tips

for those who are following us and are

thinking about how to create a culture of

contained learning, right? What would you

say are the fundamentals, the

insights you can share? Well,

I would say that perhaps a first step is to

have clarity about this culture and the

context in which you are inserted, and

then think about this

learning culture of your company, looking at

who

these learners are, who they are, how

they usually learn, what their

routines are, inserting learning into the

routine, I think that's perhaps the best

way to avoid barriers, putting

it into the workday. I would also look at

what the market trends are,

especially related to the organization,

because we're talking about... From a

business perspective, it's crucial to understand what barriers

prevent an organization from evolving. These barriers can include

cultural barriers,

leadership barriers,

symbolic barriers, and process issues.

Looking at all of these factors and

understanding these personas is key. How

can you develop an action plan?

The sky's the limit for those with

money; they'll likely have far

more resources and support. But that doesn't

preclude those without

investment from starting small, beginning

with pilot projects in a specific

area, and becoming a great

success story. Perhaps to conclude, a

question that can be asked is:

What are the enablers? Do I have

technology or not? It's fundamental, but that

's not an insurmountable impediment given the

context. And

lastly, we need leaders as

major sponsors. Because without them, we

'll hardly be able to achieve

significant mobilization, as they are

great enablers. If today they

represent on average 70% of the climate, then

they also have an impact on

learning. Without a doubt, very, very

cool, very good. Anderson, I wanted to

thank you so much for your time here with

us. I loved the chat; it went by

very quickly. I learned a lot here, I learned so

much. Honestly, I liked that we

zoomed in and out, it was

unveiled in a way that became very

dense and valuable. We gained

several insights here, both theoretical and

practical, so I really liked the

result. Thank you very much, Anderson, for

your time. We hope to see you back here

telling us how the

development of these new verticals will be

and the role of HR in this, Pat, because

this movement that you are making

is becoming increasingly common for a

traditional company to open new

verticals out of the

box, and HR is left behind, right? There's something

we didn't talk about, and

obviously we won't have time here, but

Anderson talked a lot about it. He brought

together several core groups, and I

think this is an important leap

you made. So it's not HR that's

solely responsible, but several core groups working

together. This is an

important experience for us to talk about,

and I would say that it's not only in

learning, but also in various

processes in the employee journey. HR should

stop looking at itself and bring other

people to the COC to build together.

Perfect, great, ISO, and there will be. It's a

job of stitching together

HR processes in these new verticals and forming this

patchwork quilt, right? That's it,

very good, very good. So,

Anderson, I invite you to come back

to the program. Thank you very much to everyone who

followed along so far. I invite you to

browse the playlist. We have several

super cool cases, including one—I remembered

one, episode 12, which was in 2020—it was

with Nubank. Oh, very cool, the

Nubank training and development case.

It's content that we still have a

lot of people accessing today, among other

cases that we also brought that

complement this vision of the

main market cases. Very

well, so that's it for today. A hug to

everyone and until the next episode of People Management.

[Music]