Harrisburg City Planning Commission - 06/05/24

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e

e e

like to call the Harware Planning

Commission meeting to order at

approximately

6:30 uh Commissioners you received your

minutes from May 1st

2024 are there any corrections additions

deletions is there a second second this

been moved and second for approval of

minuts as they are all those in favor

state by saying I I I opposed extensions

carried abstain one extension

sorry under old business there's

none under new

business item number one is a varant

application for 2201 North fren street

is Zone RF is by

2201 NFS

L and that's to construct a free

standing

sign taller than 4T 9 in and larger than

16.4 ft than permitted by right St uh

yes so the applicant is requesting uh

the construction of a freestanding sign

taller than permitted by W uh 4 and 3/4

feet um versus 4T and also larger than

permitted by right 16.4 sare ft uh by 8

square versus 8 square F feet uh the

property at 2201 North Front Street is

a88 acre lot with a three story 29,000

381 ft structure which was constructed

in 1924 while the project site is

comprised of six total Parcels the

subject property is the only one

relevant to the request is bounded by

2225 North Front Street to the north the

property is at

2200 uh to 228 North 2 Street to the

east Uh Wood bind Street to the South

and North Front Street to the West it's

Limestone masonry detached structure the

king mansion features elements of the

late classical Revival or neoclassical

architectural style it was originally

designed by noted architect Frank Gordon

festo Jr for horse King and his family

uh character defining features include

the Limestone masonry exterior

Mediterranean inspired architectural

features throughout the large covered

front porch and second floor balcony the

port kosher on the Northern elevation

the large covered second floor porch on

the Northern elevation The prominent

dormers on the front and side elevations

the red clay roofing tiles and the

substantial Stone chimneys new elevator

Tower and building entrance is currently

being constructed in the northeastern

Corner the main front entrance features

arched provided light double doors each

with 12 panes set within a wooden frame

which mirrors the three sets of doors

and transoms of similar design on either

side that provide access from the

interior of the building to the large

front porch there's a side entrance

accessed from Woodbine Street that

features panel double doors and a simple

wooden frame other access points to the

building feature more utilitarian

entrance designs there are windows of

varying sizes and configurations but

finestra primarily includes divided

light windows with side lights and/ or

transoms on the front first and second

floors the large third floor Dormers

feature divided light Windows set in

simple wooden frames large and small

dentals and substantial pediments topped

with red clay roofing tiles property

features a 76 space service parking lot

on the Northern portion of the site

which provides parking for tenants of

the building and an expansive front lawn

enclosed by a 4ot high metal fence with

masonry peers and Landscape screening

there's a detached garage at the rear of

the property that has the same facade

appearance and roofy materials as the

main structure the structure has

substantial historic and architecture

value and contribut significantly to the

character of the neighborhood and

streetcape along North Front Street uh

the planning Bureau recommends that the

request be approved with the following

conditions uh the applicant must submit

the requisite flood plane development

permit application for the proposed sign

and accompanying fence and wall elements

and receive approval from the flood

plane administrator uh the applicant

must ensure that the signage itself as

determined by the location of the

lettering on the sign structure is

located at least 5T from the public

right of way along North Front

Street plan buau staff recommends the

request must be approved for the

following reasons the applicant has

provided substantial statistical support

for the proposed signage based on

nationally recognized standards and with

a focus on ensuring safe access by those

traveling to the property along North

Front Street the zoning relief requests

uh NE necessary for the installation the

proposed signage are generally minimal

and non-intrusive in nature and do not

involve aspects such as internal

illumination or electronically changing

messages which might have adverse

impacts on adjacent properties to the

north propos signage is also designed in

a complimentary manner to the the

property Aesthetics and the riverfront

context and does not produce detrimental

impacts on the surrounding neighborhood

uh and the site currently features

minimal signage identifying the property

or the uses thereon the proposed sign

will be more visible to the general

public and will improve site safety and

accessibility for both visitors and

guests and passers

by thank you Jeff um could you state

your name address and relationship to

the

project absolutely chairman my name is

Ash mccom I'm an attorney with MCN won

NK 100 Pine Street Harrisburg

Pennsylvania we represent the applicant

2201 NFS LLC and with me is Mark Kowski

with the applicant he

can Mark Kowski I'm the owner uh

president CE CEO of 20201 f

LLC okay gentlemen uh heard the staff

report um are you acceptable of the

conditions we are okay did want to add

anything to the report I I always come

with a nice packet to hand out and walk

everybody through but but Jeff did a

great job covering everything so we're

happy to answer any questions the

Planning Commission might have okay

Commissioners um at this time I have no

questions um and I'll start with you if

you have any questions or concerns

commissioner

McKenzie uh no specific concerns but I

would like want to understand a little

bit more how we measuring the sign area

itself is the

if one looks at the wall that goes with

it it looks like it's maybe 150 200

square F feet in size y the sign area is

measured a rectangle around all of the

letters pursuant to the ordinance and so

that's how we came up with the 16.4 feet

where eight ft is low okay thank you

you're welcome just wanted that for the

record

commissioner yeah I think it's pretty

straightforward every time we have a

signing issue I express my feelings that

our signing restrictions are way too

restrictive anyhow so I have no problem

with

this commissioner readed I have no

questions commissioner

Jordan just one question um just for

clarification it looks like from the um

design that this is not an internally

illuminated sign correct that's okay

um how were you going to ensure that the

sign could be seen from the 230 ft at

night

soin which if we do it just probably be

a singular

Spotlight B certainly if we do provide

something like that we can provide Mr KN

cop put a metric plans to show

that requirements great thank

you um

Joe I have no questions thank you

okay is there anyone from the public

uh for against this

project I'll start with the

center to my

right okay there's no concerns there

Commissioners this is pretty

straightforward U I get a

motion

okay how are you handling the flood

plane aspect of that just curious that

professional curiosity as much as

anything sure I think that was Jeffrey

referen as one of the conditions we have

to find the permit typically what we've

done we actually include there's some

fencing reconfiguration that happens in

conjunction with this um because the

fence passed through um because we're in

such a broad space we don't have I

professionally would offer my opinion

that it's not something where I get

concerned

with plus our flood

plane location so nothing that should be

that results

in okay thank you

okay any other concerns if not could I

get a

motion motion to approve I'll second

that with with the the two conditions

listed yeah okay it's been moved a

second for approval of this project uh

with the conditions all in favor state

by saying I I oppos

extensions

motion thank you very much appr

the second item on the agenda this a

varant and special exception application

for 1849 whiteall street it's Zone

RM is followed by and he's gonna have to

help me with his

name zap zapd could you state your

name Al yeah okay thank

you with z

uh P Group

LLC is associated with the conversion of

the existing structure to a three-unit

multif family dwelling including relief

from the development standards and off

street parking requirements staff uh yes

so uh the applicant is proposing uh the

conversion of the existing structure uh

to a multif family dwelling it's really

kind of a reversion um it was multiple

units on point in the past but has

experienced about a couple decades of

vacancy um so reverts to the underlying

zoning designation uh and this includes

relief uh from the development standards

um I believe specifically the density

regulations uh and the off street

parking requirements um and uh for three

um units they'd be required to provide

four spaces and there are there's a

three- space um parking lot at the rear

of the property uh the property at 1849

whiteall street is a 09 acre lot

featuring a three-story 3144 ft

structure which was constructed circa

1900 00 property is bounded by White

Hall Street to the north 1851 White Hall

Street to the east vagina Street to the

South and the property at 1847 White

Hall Street to the West this attached

structure features elements of the

Second Empire architectural style

character defining features include the

very facade treatments including brick

stucco and inel brick siding The

Brownstone water table the full width

porch with fluted Square columns and a

substantial cornice with pediment the

second floor Oro Windows the substantial

addition with three-story metal fire

escape on the rear elevation and the man

roof with real slate shingles and five

Dormers the main entrance features a

wooden door with a small pane flanked by

a simple s side light and topped of a

simple transom featuring the property

address is accessed by a deep wooden

porch and concrete steps there are

secondary entrances accessible via the

fire escape on the rear elevation which

appear to feature panel doors of varing

materiality ministration also includes

windows in a variety of sizes and shapes

all the windows appear to be in a one

over one configuration all the basement

windows are boarded up there are 10

windows on the front elevation 10

windows on the Eastern elevation eight

windows on the western elevation and 12

windows on the rear elevation the maner

roof features five Dormers which feature

substantial pament brackets and

decorative woodwork structure is

otherwise topped with a flat uh rubber

roof although the structure is

significantly deteriorated the

architectural style Design Elements and

building massing are reproduced in many

of the other structures along the block

as such the building reflects the

diverse nature of properties on its

block and thus contributes to the

architectural and his historic character

of the street Gap

the planning Bureau staff recommends the

request be approved with the following

conditions if granted zoning approval to

move forward with the project as

proposed the applicant shall allow the

codes Bureau to perform a comprehensive

inspection to identify all outstanding

code violations and receive approval for

all necessary city permits prior to

receiving a certificate of occupancy uh

the applicant will also coordinate with

the Department of Public Works to ensure

that the account billing is updated to

reflect the proposed change in use plan

bu staff recommends the request be

approved for the following reasons the

special exception request for the

proposed use is warranted by the history

of the property the presence of other

such converted apartment buildings in

the immediate neighborhood and the

recent zoning hearing board approval of

a similar proposal at a nearby property

with similar existing conditions the

request for relief from all street

parking is warranted by the existing

three space accessory parking lot at the

rear of the property and the on street

parking available along the front edge

of the property with whiteall Street uh

the project will result in the

rehabilitation and restoration of a

large residential property directly

across from Reservoir Park and improving

not only the condition of the block but

the overall appearance of the

neighborhood at a high visibility

site finally as opposed to other such

conversions in recent years which have

proposed the establishment of one

bedroom or Studio units the current

project will create three two-bedroom

units uh adding to the multi-bedroom

inventory in the city which is in high

demand thank you Jeff um could you state

your name and address and relationship

to the

project my address is 2858 still Avenue

New

York I am a Founder one of the partners

at the Zac P group this my

another Christopher Torres I'm one of

the founders company and your address

2155 Jefferson Street harisburg

Pennsylvania C

17110 okay

be my name is aror I'm one of the

partners I live in better place New York

New

York okay thank you um gentlemen heard

the staff report uh with the um two

conditions um are you acceptable of

those

conditions do you accept the yes the

condition uh did you want to add

anything to the report U no I was same

that Jeff told

was okay um I don't have a specific

question but looking at this uh property

it looks like you're going to have to

put a lot of money into it it's pretty

beat up yes sir and I guess you figured

that out yes sir

okay um Commissioners that's the only

thing I have to far you have any

concerns or anything and I'll start with

commissioner

McKenzie uh no concerns just commend you

for uh you know bringing building back

to life there because this is one of

those ones there's old buildings and

good old buildings and sometimes it's

hard to tell which is which so good luck

thank you

commissioner any idea when the property

was last occupied H we have no idea we

think it has been left unoccupied like

for several decades probably okay but we

are not sure when last time was yeah

judging from its appearance I'm in favor

for anything you want to do to

so best no you work kind out for your

good luck though wish you well we will

bring it back to

life commissioner re I just one question

will these be fair market properties

fair market rent will they be fair

market rent properties yes

yes Market as opposed to

low

okay commissioner

Jordan no

questions

Jo I don't have any questions thank you

is there anyone in the P from the public

were against this project I'll start in

Middle to my right so there's no one

there commissioner is there can I get a

motion I move to approve the conditions

as stated is there a

second second it's been moved a second

for approval of the project with the

conditions all in favor state by saying

I I

hios motion carried good luck like I

said hope you guys make out well thank

you than

you okay this is item number three

this is a Vance and special reception

for

1103 South Front Street which is Zone

RF uh SP Follow by Justin uh Kerman with

tunnel to Towers

Foundation uh It's associated with the

construction of a transitional housing

development reaching a 60 unit multifam

building and 20 detached Comfort homes

for

uh yes so the applicant is proposing to

construct a transitional housing

development for homeless veterans

featuring two types of housing

accommodations along with Associated

site and access improvements project

includes a mixed use building with

tenant services and Community functions

on the first floor and 60 units on the

two floors above and 20 detached Comfort

homes uh for residents Elsewhere on the

property uh the project requires only

harbard approval of a special exception

for a use not specifically prohibited in

the zoning code for section

7-33 111b of the zoning code and a

variance application for building

shorter than the 36 foot minimum height

outlined in section

73073 A of the zoning code property at

1103 South Front Street is a 15 acre lot

which is largely vacant although it

still retains some of the building

foundations and site infrastructure from

when the property accommodated a steel

mill currently it accommodates a

critical connection of the Capital Area

Green Belt but little else in the way of

development or active uses

the property is bounded by the property

at 1101 South Front Street to the north

railroad tracks to the east the property

at 1105 South Front Street to the South

and susqu and the susqu river to the

West the planning Bureau staff

recommends the request be approved with

the following conditions granted zoning

approval to move forward with the

project is proposed the applicant shall

submit a subdivision and land

development plan approval for um for

approval from the Planning Commission

and city council

uh while the applicant notes that the

Comfort homes will be capable of being

ADA Compliant uh the planning Bureau

recommends that they be constructed to

visitable standards at a minimum with

allowances for full conversion to Ada

accessibility in the future uh the

applicant should continue their

coordination with the capill areia green

belt Association regarding the retention

of the green belt across the property

this will retain a recreational amenity

for the community at large will provide

a w walking biking route for residents

to connect to the surrounding community

and the city overall um as the applicant

notes many will not own vehicles and

will maintain an ecological buffer along

the river based on the proposed site

design the planning Bureau would

recommend that the applicant incorporate

a portion of the green belt across the

southern boundary of the property

connecting the existing bridge over the

railroad tracks to the emergency access

road along the western boundary of the

property the planning bu recommends the

that the applicant install the required

bicycle parking in the ghost parking

spaces fronting the mixed use building

or near the main entrance and be

sheltered if possible residents of the

Comfort homes can store their bikes and

their units uh and finally the plan

Bureau recommends that the applicant

coordinate with the City Arborist

regarding required landscaping and trees

on site and consider installing native

plants and pollinator plants and

landscaped areas throughout the site

generally and more specifically around

the proposed storm water detention

basins planning Bureau staff recommends

the request be approved for the

following reasons the proposed project

will meet a critical need housing for

homeless individuals and will

specifically Target a group of veterans

who are disproportionately represented

in the homeless population will provide

quality accessible units that improve

their standard of living and we'll

introduce a housing approach that may be

a template for future

projects the project represents a

continuation of recent development

projects in this area intended to

provide accommodations and services for

those experiencing homelessness and

finally if the recommended conditions of

approval are adopted the proposed

project will result in improvements to

the site and will provide benefits to

the greater Public Welfare including

formalized access for green belt users

improved trail conditions and

maintenance of existing natural and

ecological buffers thank you Jeff could

you state your name address and

relationship to the project

certainly excuse me I'm Bruce grman

attorney for the applicant from calwell

and kurs 3631 North Front Street in

Harrisburg accompanying me is Mr state

name Luis Menendez um from from uh

tunnel Towers Foundation I am the

director of construction for the

homeless veterans program and I am uh I

reside at 70 Oakwood Avenue in upperman

Clair New

Jersey I'm Justin hul I'm the director

of government Affairs for the foundation

uh address 5488 clono Court Alexandria

Virginia um thank

you okay again gentlemen heard the staff

report um and are you acceptable of the

conditions uh first of all I want to

commend the report it's very thorough uh

and very detailed and uh with the

resources that the bureau has I'm I'm

very very pleased with the report and

grateful for it uh all of the conditions

are accepted with certain qualifications

such as uh as to the parking the bicycle

parking um they definitely will consider

bicycle parking but if they can uh

eliminate uh more impervious surface

they would like to do that rather than

putting it where parking was so uh they

will certainly uh consult with and

provide bicycle parking and storage it

may not be exactly what uh Jeff has

mentioned in his report um and as far as

uh the uh coordinating with the City

Arborist uh they are anxious to uh

install and Landscape particularly

around uh any uh storm water uh

facilities that have to be on the

property uh Jeff

any uh no um you know we'd be fine if

the applicants wanted to have uh

interior secure bike storage for example

within the mixed use building as opposed

to outdoor um racks uh so you know

that's certainly uh an aspect of the

project that uh we can coordinate on you

know prior to the submission of a land

development plan for example um and then

with to the coordination with the City

Arborist I defer to the City Arborist um

expertise on these issues and whatever

they feel um is appropriate you know we

would be supportive

of okay um are are these uh houses are

similar to the project they just uh open

up are they built in that type of way uh

no the U veterans Outreach uh of

Pennsylvania project uh now named

veterans Grove has 15 tiny homes that

have very limited cooking for instance

cooking facilities in them and they're

much smaller uh Mr Menendez can better

describe the the Comfort homes and the

intention of

them so the the our distinction is that

our homes are larger we we are at a

approximately 500 squ foot unit our

footprint is a little bit larger is more

conducive to permanent living where each

home has its own separate living room

Central kitchen area with a bathroom and

a separate private bedroom so within

that 500 foot uh footprint we're able to

accommodate a complete single unit for

uh permanent

living and my

other won't say a concern but did you uh

talk to the community in that area at

all

um yes sir uh and I just wanted to thank

the city of Harrisburg they've been very

welcome to us so far our partners and

friends over here at vopa uh we were

happy to attend their uh ribbon cutting

last week but you know part of this

process is is to integrate with this the

city of Harrisburg and make sure that

everything we do is uh is in adherence

to um what the city wishes so uh so far

we're off to a really good start and

we're excited to be here tonight and uh

hopefully we can move on the next step

thank you okay and I'm more uh stating

more specifically for shy pooke

residen um as to the shy pooke

Association we've been trying to arrange

just get our schedules together we have

reached out to them for uh an

appointment and when they can have a

group together to uh to meet with us so

we have initiated contact with them okay

because we as a commission always feel

the Community should be involved we

understand and and they are reaching out

to them and other community groups when

they can okay Commissioners those are my

two concerns so far um and I'll start

with commission K any

concerns uh the first would just be a

kind of a question uh of you uh I don't

haven't really heard of your

organization before can you give just a

brief history of how long you've been in

business where you established you I

just want to test it okay great so just

very quickly uh again thank the

commission for tonight uh we're founded

on September 11th 2001 the night of um

our founder Frank siller's youngest

brother Steven Siller was a firefighter

um he was getting off duty the night

before and he was on his way to Long

Island to play golf with his brothers um

they were supposed to meet him there uh

the first plane hit the World Trade

Center he turned his car around parked

it outside the Brooklyn BR Bry tunnel

ran to the tunnel to the towers where he

perished that day hence our foundation

tunnel to Towers um since then uh we've

been building uh homes and real estate

for catastrophically injured veterans

and their families throughout the

country actually have a lot of uh work

we've done in the Commonwealth of

Pennsylvania so far got a one pager on

that I can leave with you but um bring

us to present day about two years ago

the you know homeless veteran crisis in

our country continues to rise there's

around 33,000 in our country now we

wanted to attack that headon we're

building real estate um apartment

buildings throughout the country

affordable housing to tackle this issue

that's why we're here tonight and we're

excited and um again want to answer all

your questions and concerns thank you

okay thank you that that's good

information the uh the second question

is what how will the two types of uh

housing work separately or work together

what's in the tower versus is one more

of a the 64 units is that more of a

um I don't know call compenent or

nursing or care type facilities is or is

it this the multi-story building yeah

it's just a multi-story building the

units are a little bit smaller they

they're roughly 400 square fet 390

thereabouts they are permanent residents

as well okay uh the difference between

the units in the building and the

Comfort home is that the Comfort homes

are offered to Veterans senior veterans

veterans that are 55 and over who for

some reason or other have spent most of

their lives in some sort of transitional

uh homelessness condition and so we

afford them these homes so that they can

live in dignity uh and spend the rest of

their lives there so these are uh

awarded to specific veterans so they're

a permanent type they can live there the

rest of their lives so these are more

geared towards the older veteran where

the veteran that's going to reside in

the multi-story building you can stay as

long as you have to you can be here

permanently if you want to uh but our

goal is to have them transition out of

there at some point after they've been

in this environment they've made a

commitment to better themselves they've

made a commitment to reintegrate into

society and our hope is that they're

able to move on into a more permanent uh

accommodations on their own okay well

that helps make sense of what's going on

there uh last question would be is uh

are are you in association with any

local based groups or state-based groups

uh for providing you know support

services and things like that or is that

something that you operate yourselves I

mean well our ground floor as far as

service you said uh face-based uh groups

um we do when we do go into a community

we do Outreach to the local community

churches different organizations that

want to participate for example one of

our projects in uh uh in Houston the

local community took us in in the sense

that they wanted to participate in some

of our local uh programs that they have

during during the holidays where they

would want it to come in and serve the

veterans right the residents give them a

meal help them out during the holiday

season um that's something that we

welcome and so we do have opportunities

like with VOA we are this is something

that's very important to us to

collaborate with their organization they

are a more of a transitional uh program

where once those veterans get themselves

under feet we're there to receive them

at a more permanent

basis okay no other

questions U commissioner

Reed I'm sorry

two Jeffrey this is in the flood zone

correct um so portions of the uh western

part of the property along the river are

in but like uh I don't believe it uh the

the boundary extends past the emergency

access road that's there now okay um and

there's a small portion um along the

east side of the property as well that I

believe is largely uh over the footprint

of the uh new storm water management

Basin that's being created along the

access road that's been created there as

well as the access road itself so um

looking at the um flood plane overlay

with the at least tenative uh building

Footprints here uh I didn't see that any

of the development would be in the flood

plane maybe some of the fence around the

border of the property but that's a

relatively uh straightforward um review

if necessary all right that's a good

thing then uh what other projects do you

have in Pennsylvania right now um this

is our first project in Pennsylvania so

uh this is our prototype that we've been

developing for the last three years two

three years and so it's being rolled out

not only in in Harrisburg but we've got

a similar project in brington Florida

where we were just needed we were deed a

few uh 8 acres to develop a similar uh

development so we call them veteran

Villages all right um it's it's the main

piece is the multistory building like I

said with our services on the ground

floor to support the village so with the

main building the multi-story and the

housing around it creates The Village so

we've got projects in uh brington

Florida just started development in

projects in Bayville New Jersey we are

out in Buffalo New York

uh and soon to be and uh we've got a

different type of project in Memphis

which is our other component or

development uh component which is

acquiring uh not nonfunctioning

properties similar to a Windom hotel

or or such where we renovate and convert

into a similar multi-story building so

those are two different types of project

either we grow or uh from Full

development or we do a renovation

uh but this particular model is

something that is special in the sense

that we're creating that Village uh that

we that we're we're so uh we're seeking

to create for the for the tenants but

that is not the only contact that the

foundation has with the Town

Pennsylvania Mr H can explain more yes

um over the past 20 years it looks like

we built um nine homes for fallen First

Responders four for gold star families

and we' built three smart homes for C

catastrophically injured veterans right

now we support through our national case

management Network 118 pennsylvanians um

you know separate from the from our

veterans Village that we're about to

produce and I'd be happy to leave you

one of these sir yeah and just to

clarify this is just one specific

program what uh Jason J is talking about

is other programs that we have within

the overall TTT

organization and no further

questions uh commissioner re Comm Comm

mckisic asked most of my questions but

one thing I wasn't clear on that's okay

you had three of them um what

transitional uh services do do you

provide what services do you provide

social services or well as far as

services are concerned um anything that

they need to get themselves right get

themselves back

into the position where they can begin

to rehabilitate themselves we deal with

PTSD to a certain extent we deal with

substance abuse to a certain extent and

I mean by a certain extent that if the

cases are beyond our capabilities to

deal in this environment we do not want

to have a stable stable environment and

then bring in someone who may need

additional help we will help those

individuals transition into a program

that better fits their needs we also

provide Workforce training we provide

services for them to learn how the

veteran to learn how to write a resume

how to

interview uh we provide help with them

to access their uh contacts at VA we do

have case management uh resources on

site and they are become part of the

overall community in that step to

rehabilitate yourself and there are

whole host of other that perhaps we can

elaborate further if you like on some of

the other programs is fine thank you

that's

it commissioner Jordan yes um would you

be able to show on your diagram how this

um project um ties into the green belt

connection like how it's

retained um not presently because that's

still very actively being negotiated

there are actually at least two other

property owners involved um the dolphin

County General Authority on the North

obviously and uh the owner of the

remaining property on the south and um

uh you know the access road goes across

all of those property so um it's a

multi-party negotiation we've been

negotiating in good faith with do M and

uh we'll continue to see if we can get a

resolution um you have to remember that

this is has always been private property

and the green Bel has been fortunate to

be able to use it um so we want to see

if we can continue that uh compatible

with the needs of the private property

owners now you're hearing about a an

altruistic uh project that's going to be

uh giving our veterans digity and

security and uh we have to uh deal with

those issues also so it's a complex

issue but we're continuing to work in

good P I understand and one other

question um it says in a report well

actually let me just ask this as a

question is there um a particular reason

that the um units aren't starting out

initially 888

compliant um they are they are man they

are designed their prototype uh uh are

ADA Compliant or convertible let's just

say uh one of and as well one of the one

of the issues that we took into

consideration in designing the Prototype

uh and we found out through conversation

with our veterans is one of their major

concerns is how is someone going to

visit me if they are either in the same

condition that I am or if they are in

worse condition than I am how are they

going to come over uh so we've created

the model where uh you do have steps

there are steps to the unit if you can

use them and each unit has a ramp so

it's an ADA Compliant ramp that reaches

the sidewalk or the grade at the proper

slope that they're able to access the

interior of the Comfort home if you're

visiting the units in the main building

as well they are ADA Compliant if a

veteran comes in and our kitchens and

are designed as such where if they need

to have on a wheelchair and they need to

have the approach to that kitchen uh the

cabinets can be retrofit in other words

cabinet can come out a panel can go in

so that you still have the approach

clearances and accessibility to all the

uh uh Cabinetry and the kitchen as well

as the bathroom are accessible door the

doorways are accessible each bathroom

has clearance 36 in clearance minimum uh

to get themselves in we do not have a

swing door in the bathrooms we provided

uh we're designing uh what we call the

uh sliding door so that we're able to

get in and out so there is no

opportunity if something happens inside

the bathroom we can't get in the

bathroom we still have a sliding door on

the outside it's a barn door that's what

they're called go thank you very

much

Joe uh the the two questions I have I

think commissioner Jordan just covered

um and so maybe I'll I'll just uh I'll

just leave with those so thank you for

your responses for those mine were

related toward to the green belt and to

um the uh ADA compliance but you

answered them thank

you um before I go to the public um Jeff

I think they partially answered what I

was going concern I know there's

Property Owners down that way and other

owners and how are they are how are you

dealing with that so uh for the most

part I think um the at least uh the

applicants I know are working directly

with the green belt Association um and I

um believe that uh other uh

representatives for um the prospective

property owner to the South between this

site and the VAS site uh and the I guess

current property owner because the

applicants are contract purchasers as I

understand it um are all in negotiations

about where exactly um you know the

footprint of uh of the green belt may go

um you know our recommendation in the in

the case report was based on the fact

that when you look at the uh site plan

provided with the application um the

fence that encloses the site is on the

east side of the access road uh that

runs that connects both to the Dolphin

County General Authority property of the

North and then uh the vula property down

in the South so there isn't a uh fence

caim off access there so it's still I

guess in theory um open um for public

access and therefore kind of makes a

good um connection point and it would

require I guess the least amount of

easement um between the bridge and uh

that site uh that being said you know I

think we would be uh happy to you know

coordinate with uh both the applicants

and the green B Association on whatever

solution they come up with whether it

goes across the Northern end of the site

or the southern end of the site or

wherever it needs to go but um you know

as the planning Commissioners know uh

you know we brought this up at the at

the last uh development for the vopa

site um that it be included and it was

not included in the found design and uh

it was our concern that this would be

cut off uh into the future and not just

for the general public but for um

residents of both the existing VOA

facility this proposed facility and the

potential future facility um between

these two um as the applicants note in

their application uh most of their ten

of their residents aren't going to have

um Vehicles so uh you know we expect

that they will want to go out and um

engage with the community go out and

visit around Harrisburg and if they're

not going to have vehicles how will they

do that walking and biking presumably

maybe a shuttle bus or something as well

um but uh you know if that is the case

um they have a readymade connection

right now and so we want to make sure

because of didn't end up in that last

project that it does end up in this

project um and not and we don't get to

the to the next project which will be

the last one of this property and it

doesn't happen there either and then all

of a sudden we've lost our connection so

we plan Bureau feels very strongly that

um you know that this really needs to be

included uh in a PL design however that

may happen and again we recognize that

this is private property as the

applicant said um but at the same time

it's also you know a critical 100y old

more than 100y old portion of um the

city's infrastructure and uh you know uh

we would we just want to make sure that

that connection is maintained however

that happens and in a way that uh

benefits not just the general public but

the residents um of each of these

developments that's going to be down

here in South harisburg

yeah if I may follow on U what is

currently happening is there a Gap in

the green bound at the present time or

how is that being rerooted I have not

been down there since the project was

completed Opa yeah currently um the uh

Bridge of the railroad tracks uh was uh

temporarily um uh closed for uh

construction and utility work to connect

the vopa site uh to I guess whatever

utility stubs were on the Dolph County

General Authority site um and the

alternate route uh goes over Sycamore

Street um to C Street and then down

Cameron Street to connect to uh the

green Bel about at Elliot Street I think

or just north of that uh where there's a

truck entryway down to the green belt um

but if you've been down there that's not

really a safe place to ride frankly for

anybody U much less for a child or a

senior or something the grade of the

bridge is really high there's very

limited visibility the sidewalk is

almost non-existent um and so you know

from the Plenty bear perspective that is

not a long-term solution and being that

there's only one other crossing of the

railroad tracks down here in South

Harrisburg you know we feel that it's

really imperative that the connection be

maintained right so I mean and I think

that kind of my concern we don't want to

turn the green belt into a permanent

green

strip with roundabouts at either end

yeah you know it has been there for

hundred years and again we're being

asked to provide a special exception

here so it is kind of the time to talk

for a Tit for Tat um you know what can

we get

in return for the public in return for

waving this regul this item and I would

like to see that in the discussion and

and I don't think that and again I don't

think that needs to be necessarily

decided on today uh there will be a

follow-up Land Development plan uh that

Planning Commission city council will

review uh but at the same time we'd like

to not leave that hanging to the last

moment and the sooner it can be hashed

out what again whatever the solution is

uh the better I think right I guess

that's the question is once we approve

this tonight we've kind of lost our

leverage uh By the time Land Development

plan comes in with special exception

already approved there's really not much

we can do and I think the evidence of

what happened recently great project by

the way but

um is indicative we let it off that it

would be developed and it would be

talked about and it didn't

happen um so that's a concern I

have um just one more thing Jeff um I'm

not sure exactly what this location is

but will the um High new highway coming

through will that affected at all I'm

not the highway but yeah the it

shouldn't um the the highway is north of

the general author Dolphin County

General Authority property so um you

know aside from maybe more noise I don't

think there will be any physical impacts

uh from the the structure of the highway

or anything like that

uh yeah it is yeah but there will be I

think widening uh at the very least off

ramps um to the south of where the

bridge is now the bridge

for um I'll go to the public now if

you're for against this project I stand

and state your name and I I'll start in

midle good good evening uh my name is

Doug Hill I live at 709 Green Street

here in Harrisburg and I am currently

president of the Capal area Green Belt

Association it's a pleasure to be with

you tonight I and I do appreciate the

commentary you've had thus far I just

wanted to add a few things to it a

little bit additional perspective uh and

I'll start by saying we are very much

supportive of the tunnel to Towers

project it's something that's critically

needed here in the city and they're

certainly serving a a a a population

with a distinct need in a unique way a

unique and uh important way and so we do

hope the project is going to be able to

go through uh from the perspective of

the green belt association association

it's well the green belt's been around

for a 100 years the association's been

around for about 30 and we've been

maintaining the trail uh for the

entirety of the trail over that period

of time including here in the South

Harrisburg Area uh in the South

Harrisburg Area uh we've done a

significant amount of grading

maintenance other improvements over that

period of time as well as as ongoing

maintenance um excuse me I will I will

acknowledge uh that we are doing it by

written permission uh but that is the

extent of it it is not a license it is

not an easement it is not a RightWay so

it is just by courtesy of the current

owners that we occupy that but it has

been a

relationship theou I'd like to

the couple points I'd like to make first

is that both the comp plan talks about

the green belt as an important asset of

the city and its maintenance as a part

of the character of the city and

availability of the residents and then

zoning ordinance itself as a part of its

objectives uh talks about completing the

green belt and this is one of the last

couple privately owned properties where

we don't have a clear license or or

easement agreement and so uh as you

pointed out this is the time uh to get

this resolved uh with some permanence uh

it is accurate uh that we have been

engaged in good faith discussions uh on

multiple occasions uh in person uh email

and otherwise and we've exchange

sketches and so on uh we are confident

that we can continue on that route and

hopefully find something that's going to

work

uh I with your permission Mr chairman we

have a sketch that we did based on the

uh sketch plan that was submitted to you

if we could distribute that to you if

that would be

helpful I have a couple other folks from

our board who are here that'll do that

while I talk I don't want to take too

much time but uh on on that plan uh we

have shown you in red the historic Route

of the green belt and when you get it

you will see that it does go diagonally

right across the property and obviously

uh can't continue to exist in its

current

configuration and so then what we've

shown as an alternative is uh in green

and that is to continue as the uh City

described in their analysis to continue

along the emergency access route and

then go along the southern boundary of

the tunnel to Towers property and

connect again up with the railro bridge

you also see the little stub by the

railroad bridge which is what Mr Gman

referred to the third property owner

would also have to be involved

ultimately in in that rerouting uh but

we are we're pleased to submit that to

you because it acknowledges that the

plan the sketch plan that they've done

including its configuration and the

configuration of the fencing uh would be

able to accommodate the green belt uh in

this kind of a configuration would be

able to maintain it in a way that has

the uh best ecological

perspective as well as the best

continuity and the least public danger

compared to for example The Detour that

we have right now out on Sycamore Street

uh the other couple benefits uh that uh

have been mentioned in the report and

will emphasize to are that it does

provide pedestrian access for the

residents of tunnel Towers but also uh

the emergency access road extends the

whole way down uh to Veterans Grove and

and so can also provide pedestrian

access for them as well as the

intervening property when that becomes

developed right now uh the veterans

growth does not have uh specific

dedicated Public Access other than

walking on the on the new roadway uh it

also uh we would argue has therapeutic

value to have a recreational opportunity

right outside your gate is something

that we think would be beneficial to the

residents of tunnel to Towers uh and um

it also as I mentioned provides access

for Eden and for uh VOA for their

residents to uh well the the intervening

property to have access up to City

amities including the bus stop up at the

pendot building as well as uh to the

City

generally

um I I in that respect then I think I

would say we have we support the

recommendations as they are made in the

uh conditions uh expressing the city

report uh for uh T TOS to continue their

discussion with us and to arrive at a

solution comparable to what's described

uh in the city report thank

you thank

you if there are anyone else in the

center or

against if not I'll go to my right

anyone for against the project

[Music]

hi I'm John Hickey I live at 3901 Pam

Drive in Mechanicsburg I'm on the board

of veterans Outreach of Pennsylvania I'm

here with h our chair Tom and uh another

of our board members and we did want to

express our support for the project um

our project is really more driven as a

therapeutic model so we're going to take

people more almost like a in intensive

therapy and it will be really good for

us to have a place for them to sort of

graduate to a phase two um right next

door um a lot of the things that we'll

be doing we've already been talking with

tunnel the towers quite a bit about how

we might coordinate and collaborate in

the future so we think this is a really

good opportunity for us um to extend

what we're doing and make Harrisburg um

recognized nationally again you look

look at the other cities that we're

talking about Atlanta Houston these are

you know Harrisburg being on that list I

think is a a feather in the cap so we

did want to express our support

okay thank

you this there's no one else from the

public now come back to the

Commissioners um before I get to the

Commissioners I want everyone to know

that we are not opposed to it I think we

all for and matter of fact I'm a veteran

myself so I think a great project but we

have to do this to make sure you work

with the community and know all the

other people involved so that's why

we're ask this question commissioner

other yeah one question Joffrey um the

is this being subdivided from the larger

property or is it a different owner than

the one previously that U they had dealt

with on the bopa project it will uh the

existing property um as noted is 15

Acres but uh eventually as part of the

land development plan they will'll have

a subdivision component they will be I

think purchasing 8 and a half acres of

the 15 property leaving 6 and a half

between the two developments for um a

future project but was this originally a

portion of the other property was this

one larger it was at 1 Point 20 acres um

everything south of um the Dolph County

General okay and if I may it was

originally all one parcel including the

pendot property right it was put

together by the people named Alex grass

and Ali Ro back in the day yeah never

heard of them never heard of them

so yeah that's I guess that's the the

one question I'm just trying to

understand the role of that property

owner on the remaining piece within all

of this I mean she was uh willing to let

them use it all the years but now that

we're into either I don't know whether

there's a profit to be made on any of

this sale truly at the end of the day uh

by their estate or or or that side or

it's simply a uh you trying to move the

property in a more beneficial use that

it's not really our her view here to be

to be worried about about that um but I

guess the U uh the question then it

comes back to what

are the tough points is it

Insurance uh to establishing a root

whether it's something like what's being

shown on on the um sketch that we were

handed um what would make it difficult

in your mind to establish this route and

allow it to be a RightWay easement on

your property for this to

work well what'll be your property once

you purchase

it there's been extensive discussions

with um the uh Dolphin County General

Authority and uh the state that leases

the land from the uh uh General

Authority whether they need all of that

parking lot for instance and if it could

be along their the edge of their parking

lot

that's already semi public use if you

will rather than on private property um

and the state has not my understanding

through Mr beno's response was that the

state was not

cooperating so um there's there's some

big players here that uh they're all

digging in their

heels but again I'm trying to understand

the the the downside of of an easan or

right away for a bicycle path I mean

there are a lot of Rails to Trails that

are created all over the country uh I

don't see this as being terribly

different from that um I'm just trying

to understand there's obviously

something that I'm not aware of and and

maybe the Commissioners have better idea

uh that why this can't be negotiated out

relatively easily even to the point that

it could have been a solution tonight

knowing the phenomenal work you brought

in and so on so forth

there are a multitude of of issues

really when um and um

security is a is a major factor when you

have uh residential communities of um

significantly less able people these

These are fragile people um and vula uh

has the uh benefit of being further away

from it

intentionally um and um

we have to be frank there's always been

evidence for instance of of drug usage

uh on this uh portion of the green belt

down by the river and so forth and that

that's a potential problem and it has to

be addressed one way or the other um so

uh security uh is is a a vital issue I

wouldn't say it's the only

issue but it's a vital vision

all right thank you Mr chairman just

just the reality of the difficulty is

that it's multiple private land owners

this board can't impose a condition on a

property next door even though the green

belts crossed multiple properties that's

the reality of it so this only gets

resolved in two ways get resolved by an

agreement gets resolved by a government

taking those are the two ways to resolve

this problem and every everybody is

looking for an agreement on a government

taking sure

so uh help me out draw draw for another

thing on the the U pendot building there

is that this point they have revoked the

right of passage across that state

property no that's what I'm I think

you're saying this our solicitor

suggesting no there's still the um

access along the riverfront portion of

that property where the current Green

Belt runs now and then connects to what

is essentially the emergency access road

here um and I have not been in any

conversations with either the county or

the state on this but from what I

understand they're not necessarily

looking to kind of to the applicants

point they're not looking to expand the

footprint uh the public access footprint

Beyond what's there

now so what we have is we have a public

parcel that we're allowing Public Access

across to the north correct okay and so

we're now talking about a private entity

that's developing and and they're asking

for special treatment uh good again a

very good cause special treatment in in

the processing of a special

exception um and there doesn't seem to

be any uh reciprocity you know to the

city to the community's request

here yeah again you know I think the the

planning Commissioners know where the

planning Bureau stands on this we feel

that you know that this again green belt

is one of the city's best jewels that we

have here um and this point is a

critical connection and so however that

needs to be maintained we will strongly

support that again you know that could

be running across the parking lot as the

applicant said it doesn't sound like

maybe uh the state's uh open to that um

but I think to the to your point um it

seems like this is a relatively

straightforward um a relatively

straightforward kind of thing about

having an easement to have a short

stretch of this I think to the

applicant's point about uh drug use and

I don't know I can't speak to the

veracity of that statement but I think

for whatever that was there or whatever

other concerns were there were largely

due to the um undeveloped nature of this

property and between the existing

veterans growth property this proposed

property and then whatever is coming

down the road for the property of the

South much of whatever created adverse

conditions there will go away because

all of the property will be not only

occupied and developed but largely gated

too um and so it won't be an issue of

there's you know large swas of UNS

surveilled area where maybe you know

stuff happened in the past and so I

think you know again it's our hope that

to to Mr Grover's point that uh this is

um negotiated out amicably between all

the parties that um at the end of the

day um we maintain this

connection okay so as a commission we we

could strengthen the language that's

been suggested in the

report

and please I did see a should before the

continued coordination I think we're all

extremely hopeful about the continued

coordination could change that to I mean

it's still just coordination but a shall

or something like that is that what you

mean I'm I'm looking for some way to

encourage

and if you know that that happened

before a land development plan comes

back and again does what happened

previously and uh all I know is living

downtown the drug use on River alley

behind my home and location the drug use

in South Street the shootings on on

Chestnut in second at 2:30 in the

morning I would venture that it's

probably safer down there than it is in

downtown Harrisburg after living there

for 30 years it's sad to be making that

statement so um I'm having a tougher per

time um accepting that as the only

reason that this can't

happen well I think the condition what I

would I mean I could certainly support

it if we could make some modifications

to the the recommended condition which

was wherever I put it

here yes sir

yeah no and I think it's two tough

situations that are running into one

another and we just want to see that it

really happens that there's an you know

amicable situation I mean we've sat here

for I've been on the commission for 27

years and how many times we've been

promised that people will provide

parking by entering into agreement with

the city parking authority um which I

also chair so I know a little bit about

that um and only to find that it didn't

happen how many other the things we've

asked for because we don't have the

administrative depth and resources to

follow up on things and uh I'd like to

just see more teeth in this

you know and again don't want to stop

the project um

but it right here thank

you uh let's see

um continue coordination I would say

change that to sh coordinate with a

green belt take those three words out

and the whole thing probably works

speaking of the green belt there was a

gentleman with his hand up oh I'm

sorry would you recognize him I would

seed

my okay okay yes

hi right Doug Hill again and uh thank

you for letting me uh respond to a

couple points that were made first uh

I'm troubled by the representation that

there's drug use as a rampant thing on

the Green Belt uh I think your point was

well made we aren't going to be po Anish

and say there isn't anything happening

anywhere along the green belt but we do

know statistics Ally from our monitoring

over the years that we have very very

few incidents documented incidents

anywhere in use of the green Bel belt it

is used by our public as a recreational

facility it's family use it's people

getting to work it's act every bit of

active Transportation so I think it's

unfair to characterize that area or any

area as a drug use area number one

number two uh the plan we haven't seen

the fence specifically as proposed but

it is in on a plan of six foot aluminum

fence so I presume that it's certainly a

physical barrier and possibly even Vis

visibility barrier and so I think that

uh resolves some of the issues uh third

uh one of the proposals that we had

previously discussed was to go along the

northern border through the pendot lot

and then across the eastern border of

the tunnel of towers property so we

would still have been traversing two

boundaries we're proposing the Western

and Sou rather than the northern and the

Eastern uh last and this is an important

point for you uh as we've been

progressing through these discussions uh

we did do our due diligence and took the

proposal to the dolin County General

Authority asking for uh their view of us

uh coming through the parking lot and uh

going going in that direction there

there are some engineering issues with

that we'll set that aside but uh they

very flatly as a board action said that

we would not be given permission to go

anywhere else on their property other

than the quarter that we already have

under license agreement and that's the

piece that goes uh from the Phoenix Park

along the Riverside of the building and

connects to the property line for tunnel

of the

towers thank

you Jeff did you add the the

change I was I had made have made a note

of it but I was waiting on a vote from

the Planning Commission you did get that

I I did make a note of it yes could I

add on to that a little bit sorry um and

I'm I'm throwing this out for discussion

so on point number three if it was

changed to the applicant will coordinate

with the Capital Area Green Belt

Association regarding the retention of

the green belt across the property um to

retain a recreational amenity for the

community at large some and so forth

with that language

did we just restate that again sure um

the applicant will coordinate with the

Capital Area Green Belt Association

regarding the retention of the green

belt across the property to retaining a

recreational amenity for the community

at large and then the rest of the

sentence as it's already

written that sound good okay thank you

Mr chairman I okay I want any other

comments from the

Commissioners

okay

um I would ask your solicitor what what

that

means what is the obligation of the

applicant pursuant to that

language I don't know so that that's the

with all due respect

I I say that not to

frustrate the uh commission but shall uh

coordinate ver uh versus continue to

coordinate

um it's in the condition we're going to

do it and as Council I'm just worried

about who's to judge that and who's to

say we didn't do it you understand my

frustration

commissioner to continue negotiations

certainly we accept I guess I would

probably I could that language to

strengthen that then the applicant shall

coordinate with them to

retain that's real simple I think that's

the intent that we're trying for I I

would suggest that that would be

imposing a government taking on them

that the city of pass have to pay for

okay that's what you're talking about

that's becomes a taking at that moment

so the alternative if that's not

workable would be just to deny this

tonight that's an alternative and that's

what's and they can come back after they

have sorted that out

well again this is a very special

exception it still goes on to zoning

it's up to that you're make your

recommendation to zoning is that I have

no idea what their solicitor will see

this as I mean that's frankly you know I

just don't know how they're going to

look at it

so okay um there's no way we can address

it in the land development plan

no I mean I think it's not too late to

address it in the land development plan

right now it doesn't show up here now

anyway if the same project special

exceptions given they don't have to do

it unless it's shown as part of the

applic of the intent

here even if we have the language in

there to this

listen they still have to go to the

zoning right that's what I'm saying the

zoning ultim this is a recommendation to

zoning what I'm saying if the city of

Harrisburg and and remember you're

you're an advisory committee to the city

of Harrisburg and to the council and if

the city is putting a shell in front of

something that actually has a tooth to

it about your land we've now impaired

your rights to your land and and

ultimately there can be an application

for having to pay for that that that's

the simple reality of it um the uh what

this project needs is an excellent

mediator that's what it needs you know I

think a lot of people have tried in this

effort I think everyone involed can ATT

test to there's been people trying to

come to a solution and it is a challenge

I can't tell you why it's a challenge

other than you get you get hear you hear

no a lot that's what you hear right and

I guess just to to go on that end what

the exposure that the city would have

would be based upon the impacted uh

piece of land relative to the purchase

price price right I would say so whether

you know whether whether it's a $500,000

piece of property and 5% of it's

impacted that's $225,000 impact I mean

that real numbers that's that's

someone's decision I don't know who

they're having it might be a court or

something but yeah yeah so but that's I

think way way way way down the road and

there's lots of land between here and

there uh I'm just telling you that's

that's that's the difficulty of it right

I mean I I think you should know that I

think the zoning board should know that

the council may say let's do exactly

that right but I'm just saying the green

belt uh is 100 years old mhm I don't

know what its roots were for a 100 years

but it really matters what it what its

roote was and how long this has been

that route um uh I don't know if I know

the parties have their views of what the

people's rights are uh those owners

changed over time uh it doesn't mean

anyone lost a right if everyone ever had

one if the one had one 80 years ago or

70 years ago I just don't don't think

anyone wants to go down that path

legally but that's the kind of stuff

they litigated for Marcela shell right

like what who what land rights existed

back then because they don't just go

away if they're not properly transferred

so uh you know I know Bruce has dug in

deep into these documents and uh so it's

a long history so I believe you'll get

to an agreement I just don't know it'll

be probably one everyone hates you know

that that'll be how you you know

everyone got their interest taken care

of

so but if we pass this through even in

as you cause maybe a taking not no no

not but I mean it's not going to be your

vote that does that type of that it

takes this issue forward to zoning tells

them what we think yes I think and then

this ultimately we may be setting the

stage for Council to take some of the

$12 million and leftover error money or

whatever the case is to solve the green

belts issue once and for all

and if we just approve this tonight that

doesn't get that hearing and pushed

forward I I can't say either way that

you know because the same arguments are

going to be made at zoning I think by

everybody so I just don't know how

they're going to treat it that that's

that's going to be the

issue we should keep your

word and as I said it's going to go to

zoning so they can argue that they can

argue with there and we'll listen our

suggestion that that's my thoughts keep

the

change so just to be clear um you want

me to use the language that um

commissioner Jordan referenced uh I

think it needs like I said I think they

pointed out maybe that we needed to

strengthen that language a little bit

more to shall coordinate and take out

the other words that are in that

beginning of the sentence okay the abant

shall coordinate with the the green Bel

Association as a condition of this

special exception approval commissioner

with all the respect

um that's just not going to get you any

further than continue to coordinate I I

know no difference

sir well I beg to differ but that's my

motion yeah that's that's your priv

that's up to the Commissioners now you

heard you say

any other comments from the

commission

joh okay and then we're ready for a vote

on this

project so uh just to be clear that's my

motion motion I made the motion yeah you

can blame it on

me broad shoulders made to approve this

project with the

conditions who seconded as amended I'll

second it you second it yeah been moved

to Second for approval of the project

with the conditions all those in favor

state by saying

I I oppos

abens motion

car again I I do hope you can work

something out because it's a great

project and the alignment is

phenomenal okay we're on item number

four this is a subdivision application

for

1529 13th

Street The Zone uh residential medium

density is sped by Gan and Jim spago

hello to separate the existing Parcels

into three individual lots for each of

the three resid on

site I'll wait till they get up here

Jeff are they here yeah are they here

yeah they're just waiting to get up here

yeah that was the big

one so they weren't here for the

subdivision

okay uh so for our final case here um uh

the subdivision for 1529 South 13 Street

um the applicants are proposing uh to

subdivide uh or to separate the existing

parcel into three individual Lots uh for

each of the three residences on site uh

the property 1529 South 13 street is a12

acre parcel featuring three separate

structures 1523 and 1525 South 13th

Street are 1, 192t structures

constructed

1957 whereas 1529 South 13th Street is a

1395 ft structure constructed in

1964 the subject property is bounded by

South 13 Street to the north the Cameron

Parkway portion of the Capital Area

Green Belt to the east and south and the

property at 1531 South 13 Street to the

West structure 1523 South 13 street is a

two-story detached structure featuring

elements of a Cape Cod architectural

style character definining features

include the very facade treatment

treatments including vinyl siding and

brick the large divided light window and

the mirror Dormers in the gable roof the

main entrance features a solid panel

door with two small panes fronted by a

3/4 view storm door it is accessed by a

concrete pathway and steps penetration

also includes a large divided light

orial window and side by side one over

one window flanking the main entrance on

the front elevation the side uh Eastern

elevation features five Windows two

Dormers are clad in vinyl sighing and

appear to feature six over six windows

The Roof is clad in asphalt shingles the

property primarily features a maintained

grass lawn with a mature Pine Tree in

the sidey yard a short driveway accesses

a small parking pad on site 152 the

structure 1525 South 13th Street is a

two-story detached structure featuring

elements of a mid-century vernacular

architectural style here Define features

include the split level configuration

with basement garage the varied facade

treatment including vinyl siding and

brick and the asymmetric window pattern

the main entrance features a solid door

with three small horizontal panes

fronted by a 3/4 view storm door is

accessed by a concrete pathway and steps

to both the sidewalk and driveway Rod

features a wooden roll down door with

with a row of Windows ministration also

includes a plate glass window flanked by

divided light double hung windows and

several other windows on the front

elevation the gable roof is clad in

Asphalt shingles property primarily

features a small yard enclosed with a

short HED r with several mature pine

trees a short driveway accesses the

basement garage Bay finally the

structure at 1529 South 13 street is a

two-story detached structure featuring

elements of a mid-century vernacular

architectural style character to

defining features include the split

level configuration with basement garage

the varied facade treatment including

vinyl Sidi and brick and the asymmetric

window pattern the main entrance

features a solid panel door fronted by a

3/4 view storm door is accessed by a

concrete pathway and steps to the

sidewalk garage features a wooden roll

down door with with a row of Windows

penetration also includes a PL glass

window flanked by divided light double

hung windows and three other one over

one windows on the front elevation there

are total five there are five total

sliding windows on the two side

elevations the gable roof is clad in

asphalt shingles the property primarily

features a maintained grass lawn with

two mature pine trees in the front yard

taken together the structures have

limited architectural and historic value

and they differ significantly from the

attached row home and semi- detached

structures to the north thus they do not

contribute to the architectural

character of the streetscape and

neighborhood the planning Bureau staff

recommends the request be approved for

the following reasons the proposed

subdivision will create individual Lots

which are all in conformance with the

applicable zoning regulations regarding

use development standards and off street

parking and the proposal will advance in

a minor manner the goals of the city's

comprehensive plan through the creation

of individual residential lots which are

more viable as home ownership

opportunities than the current lot

configuration um thank you Jeff um could

you state your name address and

relationship to the project sure my name

is Alison Hannah from penon Associates

we are the surveyor and engineer that

prepared the plans for you um and the

address of penon is 5070 Ritter Road

Mechanicsburg and the applicants are to

my left

[Music]

one Jim Spagnola 1806 BR Creek Lane

Middletown Sun

okay um you everyone heard the staff

report um actually there's no uh no

conditions no conditions so I guess

you're acceptable to those uh did you

want to add anything to the uh report no

nothing to

add um

question I had when I looked at the

picture

um it looks like

one house not separated is that or is

there two houses there's a total of

three homes my grandfather had purchased

two homes on the right the two brick

structures and then at some point I

don't remember when 60s they my grand

father gave my mother and father the lot

to the left of the Yellow Cap Cod is so

you have the yellow cave Cod I think on

its own separate parcel technically the

other Tom two homes on the right when my

grandfather purchased it he purchased it

from the Builder and those two lots were

on one de for some reason never

subdivided but the actual structure they

have separate three separate single

family homes correct CU looking on here

it looks like it's just one house

there's three separate single family H

okay uh Commissioners that's all I have

for this um and if you have any concerns

or questions andway commission McKenzie

no I was just trying to figure out you

explained it how it ended up as three

houses on one piece of

land

UHD yeah like like ver I my my question

was how did this ever happen and I guess

the had these houses never been sold in

the past but now now I get it

something something happened when was in

the mid 80s where the city for they were

three separate paral numbers somehow in

the mid 80s City combined one par so

it's a little

confusing we we'll correct that tonight

because they

will there was technically two B's I

believe one for the Cape Cod on the left

and then one D for the two Bri single

family structure and those are the

ones trying to subdivide out and just

get it straighten that at this point

yeah yeah I think I think what uh Mr

Grover is referencing is um the county

reflects both law consolidations and

deed consolidations in in the same

manner which is a problem I've had with

them and express to them many many many

times uh because it causes confusion

like this and uh they have not addressed

it

commissioner Reed no questions

commissioner Jan no questions Joe no

questions or

concerns is there anyone from the public

for against this I guess no one's

here um yeah this is pretty

straightforward I just wanted to clear

that up because I was thinking this is

one house are you gonna tear the wall

down yeah like anyways um Commissioners

can I get a

motion motion to approve second second

it's been moved and second for approval

of this project all those in favor state

by saying I I opposed ABS

motion did you second that thank you did

you second that thank you who seconded

that okay knew it came up from over

there glad this a lot easier

[Laughter]

tangentially related

Yesa way part of the green belt over by

Paxton Street is that part of the green

belt uh it's a reference to Spagnola way

over by like Paxton Street the green

belt that crosses off is that part of

the same green belt yeah there's the

paxtang parkway that's north of Paxon

Street and connects up to Market Street

and then there's a small section by the

five census Garden to the South maybe

that's Spagnola way just south of that

uh that's I think like an eastern part

of the uh Cameron Parkway this is

labeled as the Cameron Parkway on our

Maps yeah okay thank you all you're

welcome thank you Jeff do you have

anything uh nope uh that's it from uh

from my perspective I'd like to um I

guess I just like to thank the plan

Commissioners on the on the Green Belt

aspect again this is I know it's big

project I know it's not going to get

resolved here one way or the other what

happens um but uh you know I can see

this getting kicked down to the to the

last project and then the last developer

is not going to want to do it and say

why do I have to do it and not them I

think to the commissioner uh the point

like it frankly shouldn't be as

complicated as it is um

element outside the room

right right

but but that being said yeah that being

said in my in my conversations with kaga

uh they have I think Express more

optimism that they're closer to getting

a solution uh than they maybe were six

months ago

she get there

yeah anything for the good of the water

Commissioners not could I get a motion

for

adjournment is there a second second

stand all right thanks guys