Harrisburg City Planning Commission - March 5th, 2025

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at approximately

6:35 um Commissioners uh there were no U

Menace with February meetings there'll

be we'll be voting on them at the next

meeting under old business there's

none under new business this is a

special uh uh exception application for

2131 North Front Street which is Zone RF

is followed by

G

fton and chane Berger with Maple

Insurance Group this is to establish a

support a housing facility used onite

oh can you come over

here

microphone okay hi I'm neither I'm order

gz but I am here on part of both of them

if that's okay my name is Tara Davis so

I'm not the direct app okay you'll get

okay okay uh so uh the applicants are

proposing to establish a Supportive

Housing facility use uh in the

riverfront zoning District The Proposal

requires zhp approval with special

exception uh for the proposed use per

section 73057 of the zoning code

property at 2931 North Front Street is a

38 acre lot featuring a 2 and one half

story 5243 ft structure which was

constructed in

1926 property is bounded by the

property9 2933 North Front Street to the

north the property at 2944 North 2

Street to the east property at 2929

North Front Street to the South and

North Front Street to the West this

detached structure features elements of

the Tudor Revival architectural style

character defining features include the

asymmetrical facade the variegated stor

stone treatment on the first level with

half Timbers infilled with stucco on the

upper levels the variety of ornate

entrances around the building envelope

the substantial wooden brackets below

the second floor overhang the large

metal fire escape on the rear elevation

the steeply gabled roof with modillions

throughout the substantial dormers on

the side and rear roofs and the

substantial brick Chim on the front

elevation main entrance features a

Gothic arched wooden door with a small

pane set in a recessed Stone surround it

is access by a small brick path to the

Front Street sidewalk there are three

other entrances on the side and rear

elevations the two on the Northern

elevation feature 3/4 view divided light

wooden doors set beneath divided light

transoms or flanked by divided Light

Side lights one is sheltered by a

substantial awning with large brackets

and the other is recessed in a building

Al Cove penetration throughout the

property features divided light steel

casement windows first floor windows

featur Stone Sills and Soldier course

Stone headers while those on the upper

floors are set within simple wooden

frames there are five large Dormers with

simple pament in the roof above the

garage at the rear of the building

structur is topped with steep gable roof

Gable roofs which are clad in wide slate

shingles newer additions on the side and

rear feature flat rubber roofs the front

the front yard features minimal

Landscaping with a brick walkway running

through a well-maintained lawn and a

freestanding sign advertising the

existing business rear yard primarily

features a surface parking lot with a

small yard accomodating of fire pit and

decorative lighting with few minor

modifications the building retains most

of the original appearance and most if

not all of its architectural and

historic Integrity structure is a rare

example of Tor architecture in the city

and is indicative of a diversity of

older residential structures along Front

Street and throughout the neighborhood

and thus makes a significant

contribution to the architectural and

historic character of the

community the planning Bureau staff

recommends the request be denied for the

following reasons the applicants have

provided no ation or of court for the

proposal Beyond The Limited information

provided in the application and business

synopsis and specifically they have not

outlined why the existing not conforming

office use could not be continued or new

such use could not be established they

have not provided any information on the

operator of the facility their

credentials or the number of residents

that will be on site and they have not

demonstrated how the proposed use will

be compatible with the surrounding

neighborhood and the applicants have not

engaged with the surrounding Community

have not provided contact information in

their notification letters to allow the

surrounding neighbors to engage with

them regarding the project previous

proposals for similar uses in the

neighborhood were not acted upon until

there was significant Outreach to

surrounding residents thank you st could

you state your name address and

relationship to the project yes my name

is Tara Davis um I am from Maryville

Pennsylvania do you need my full

address particularly mine well you stay

from out of state so no I'm I'm a local

MR Berger is from New York and he is the

direct applicant so as his lawyer

Melissa Kelo who's not here tonight okay

I am a local representative just having

started this process with him as the

list uh the listing agent on the

property for Mr gura Salan so having met

um himim who is interested in purchasing

the building but would need this special

use

exception I've remained involved um the

local

party okay so well you heard the staff

report they have denied the I I heard

and did you state why we shouldn't deny

it I should say why you shouldn't deny

it first I wasn't aware that I was under

the impression according to the

application process that we would have

the chance to come and discuss why the

application should be or should not be

approved um so I I don't know where that

information came from who was that that

denied it no uh there was just a

recommendation for Denial in the case

report uh no decision has been made and

no decision will be made until the

zoning hearing board great okay so the

recommendation came from what office or

who uh the planning zoning board

planning board okay so that's just for

me to be able to understand and take

back um that information after this

evening the special

application um was submitted um there

are reasons for the need to be the the

use the zoning use to be changed just in

this case it's still going to be

maintained as the business use but um

with of course the difference of having

some residential stays it is a

Supportive Housing in the sense that

it's used um for patients who are coming

and staying more than short term with

staff on site so it is a staffed actual

business that would be need

um nothing in the building would be

changed as you heard the beautiful

description by the way which is probably

better than my listing description to be

honest it's gorgeous um the historic

value of all of that in that description

um nothing's going to be changed inside

there was no need for that that's hence

why the per the building and the

location was perfect for the use for Mr

Burger from New York um he does have

other established properties in Tri

County Area so Cumberland we're working

on Perry as well um the need for a

Harrisburg location was um because of

the growth factor he's housed over

266 clients um from within the Tri

County space just this year alone and

his opportunity has been growing

exponentially to house more um clients

that have come to stay after their

recovery and outpatient services have

stopped in hospital or an outpatient and

ending up they need a place to stay

right they need a place to go and start

over and get reestablished in the

community so why should it be approved I

mean I think there's multiple reasons

within the application itself I don't

hear that any one specific reason was

denied or well the reasons for denial

were essentially a lack of information

uh that was pre presented um for example

there's no information provided on the

number of residents that would be um on

site at any one time uh there was no

provided about uh who the operator even

is much less their background um and uh

any certifications or licenses they may

have at the uh federal state or uh

county level okay so I do have business

information with me um happy to provide

and send as much more of that as

requested I didn't know until this

moment that that was a request or a need

um that's not stated clearly in

pre-application or application so

knowing that I can send a lot of that

information in if needed um for the

zoning hearing board I would say that

this clinically managed low intensity

type of program in the area is important

because of an obvious case of growing

Mental Health crisis in the area and

obviously how many people we've been

able to house in this area so far now

that being said this is a well

established company that has been doing

this um again in Tri County for years

happy to send that additional

information um it does have a software

backed program involved where

it's highly um uh the the patients are

locked in the clients are locked into

having check-ins having lots of coming

and goinging rules house rules uh

regular meetings the staff has certain

check-ins with them daily weekly um you

know it's it's not a house it's it's a

place where they have a regular commune

of organized efforts put in place to uh

maintain a structured

business for their mental well-being as

they move forward in their in their

outpatient growth right so happy to

provide more information I'm not sure

what exactly you might want okay usually

if you have to provide the information

that should go to Jeff and when you come

here we're not going to look at that we

need to send that to him Jeffrey right

my one concern is

SP you have

not contact anyone in the community or

the neighbors we did I have the

certified letters that were sent out two

months ago

actually no they I mean they said that

they that they did provide the

notification letters but they explicitly

noted in their application that they had

not done any engagement with the

community outside of those letters and I

know that when this uh a similar type of

use not um the same uh resident group uh

was reviewed at a recent meeting uh the

Planning Commission continued the case

until the following month's meeting so

that they could engage with the

surrounding uh Community to discuss any

um you know questions they might have

concerns they might have uh regarding

the proposed

use so these letters that went out

certified there was there was an uh is

there supposed to be an additional

Community engagement that's required in

order to get through to the zoning Board

hearing so in the what would you

recommend so in the applic in the

special exception variance special

exception application uh the

introductory Pages it does explicitly

say that um applicant should engage the

community because it will assist in

going through this process it will help

uh the community know what's being uh

proposed uh because we do uh post these

things both on the property itself as

well as uh on the city's website and in

the local newspaper um and it um

basically allows the community to have

an opportunity uh to ask questions

before this meeting so that uh this

meeting is not the first time um uh

surrounding neighbors may be hearing

about a particular use um or finding out

about a particular project okay so just

to be clear the letters that were sent

out on January 3D was ample enough

except for the fact that we would have

wanted to do like walkabouts postings on

doors like what well I believe that I

believe the um letters also have the

wrong dates because they have the

February dates and not the March dates

um they I I think maybe the letters were

sent out anticipating that the

submission would have been made um in

time for the February meetings but it

was not uh so it

didn't uh get into the planning Bureau

um until the February deadline for the

March meeting right I think there was a

little bit of a there was some email

communication back and forth that I did

see that there was some delays between

offices and Gathering and capturing some

of the application process and submitted

documents right so I think there was

definitely some some like hey we we

thought we were going to make that

February 3rd meeting and

then we're told that we couldn't

something was wrong with the application

or something right I'm gonna stop okay

this should be care of before we're not

doing this now yeah I was under the

impression that everything had been

taken care of clearly this is what we

were under the impression we needed to

do in order to get

here okay basically what I'm looking at

right now is I'm going to to deny it and

also recommend to continue this when you

have all the papers here okay can I have

a clear concise amount of information

needed to come back you have this you

have to contact I think that's half the

B right that's actually right in the

application instructions I actually

revised them recently to be much more

clear and and comprehensive about what

is necessary because we do get questions

about what type of documentation would

help and so I wanted that to be clear

upfront to applicants so that is in the

application doc I'll make sure Melissa

Kelo understands that yeah I want you to

contact him not continue this with us

right sure so I'm just saying as the

commissioner I'm gonna that's my

recommendation but I'm going to hear

from the other Commissioners uh

commissioner

K I could support a continuance for more

information or an outright denial but I

don't think we can vote

tonight commission no I I agree we

either deny it or continue it seems to

be U the application seems to be

inadequate commissioner re and I agree

as well same

reasons commissioner m y also an

agreement okay commissioner Jordan an

agreement okay um is there anyone from

the public for against this project I go

my the

left

midle and to my right okay if you do

come to the microphone and state your

name and your

address I no you you can stay there you

can stay

there thank you uh for the opportunity

my name name is uh Eric Bal Bei

ttel I live around the corner uh 125

Manor

Street and I own a home there with my

with my wife uh we didn't receive any

notification

whatsoever uh and uh I'm really puzzled

and questioned what type of facility

this is uh mental health was mentioned I

believe in one of the letter

substance abuse was mentioned I don't

know if it's for both one or the other

um there are similar facilities I think

they're similar uh in the area that have

a lot of outdoor activity which I think

would be detrimental to the values of

the homes uh around so i' be greatly

concerned about that but thank you for

the opportunity okay thank

you evening thank you for the

opportunity to address this board uh my

name is Dave shankweiler I live at 2921

North Front Street we are two doors away

from this this structure and I'm here

you know I don't want to be the guy that

says not in my

backyard uh but um I don't think this is

compatible with the neighborhood this

neighborhood has

um The Neighbors in this neighborhood

have invested well over a million

dollars in the structures in that

neighborhood most of the homes in the

neighborhood average a 100 years of age

or or between 80 and 100 years of age um

it's a very good neighborhood it's a

tight neighborhood and um I just don't

think it's compatible as Eric said we've

already got two of these facilities in

our neighborhood we have one on the

corner of green and Division and then we

have one in the 2800 block of north of

North Front Street um both of those

facilities as Eric said have a lot of

outdoor activity early in the morning

till late at night um I happen to know

the one on on uh North Front in the 2800

block my son actually rented the

property next to them uh and it it was

not a good situation with the outdoor

activity with the smoking and other

activities that happened so it's it's

not a good track record I think having

two in our neighborhood is plenty and we

shouldn't go further the other piece of

it is two doors away from this facility

is the Alex Grass Center for Jewish life

on the former uh academic center they

have a lot of children's activities

there they have a lot of outdoor

activities uh a lot of senior citizen

activities uh I don't think this is

conducive if you look at this property

um with the clients they would be

serving I would think they need uh

amenities we're not close to a bus route

we're not close to um shopping areas and

any of that type of thing so it it's

it's just not a a a good neighbor to

Neighborhood to put that our properties

are wellmaintained in the neighborhood

uh we've spent a lot of money to upgrade

those I know my wife and I uh we took a

property that was going to be condemned

and put it back together again and and

uh that's the same story for a number of

those properties in our area I'm

familiar with the exterior and interior

of this property it's not wellmaintained

by the current owner uh for me to hear

that uh I've been inside the property

for me to hear that there's going to be

no changes to the interior how how do

you do that it was a It was a commercial

property before uh before the current

owners it's now a commercial property

how do you put residential inside with

without major uh work to be done as far

as bathroom facility shower facilities

and bedrooms um but that being said it's

it's we're trying to take a a

neighborhood and put it back to

residential and we're trying to keep it

a neighborhood a community and I don't

think this is compatible to that so

thank you for your time I appreciate the

opportunity to speak to it okay thank

you can I ask a quick question um just

on the regard of the ins no no no no no

okay You Had Your Shot

well he mentioned the inside condition

and I don't think that was fair I just

wanted to make sure that we okay

okay um this is why we always ask for

Community involvement absolutely this is

why we want the neighborhood to be aware

and then maybe you could get together

and make some you know decisions on that

but to come here and not you know talk

to any that's just not what we look for

absolutely

understood I'm going to go for the

motion okay uh Commissioners can I get a

motion on

this uh I I would like to move to deny

this application um primarily on the

basis that the information that was

submitted is not following the

instructions that were provided with the

application process um it's lacking a

lot of pertinent and important

information for us the planning Bureau

to make any sort of good faith decision

on this um it also appears that the

actual applicants

named uh are not present and also

apparently did not participate in the

preparation of this application they did

not provide information and also because

there has been zero community outreach

of the

neighbors is there a second

second he's been moved in second to deny

this application all those in favor

state by saying I

I opposed exstension motion carried so

what am I to tell Melissa Kelo to do

next contact you I yeah I will follow up

with her okay that'd be great she she'll

want to hear that thank you thanks

um the next item on the agenda is the

preliminary final land development plan

application for 555 South 25th Street

this is Zone ins institutional it's

followed by James Skinner with the

Commonwealth Charter Academy charter

school is to demolish a portion of the

existing building on site and

Redevelopment the property as a school

with a larger build-in footprint and

expand expand its sight and excess

improvements yeah uh so the applicant is

proposing to demolish a port a portion

of the existing School building on site

and redevelop the property as a school

with larger building footprint expanded

site and uh and access improvements I

would note that I did dis have a

discussion with one of the applicants um

prior to the meeting here and it seems

that there's like a bit of a

miscommunication about what is actually

being proposed for the site uh it is a

school but it's not like a school um uh

there won't be school children there so

I think that uh speaks to um I think our

recommendation of the continuance but

I'll get to that uh in just a second I

just wanted to clarify that while we had

said it was a school uh in followup

conversations appears that that's not

kind of the case um so um but I think

the applicants will maybe be able to

discuss that a little bit

more the property at 555 South 25th

Street is a 9.55 acre lot featuring a

twostory

32437 foot structure which was

constructed in

1959 the property is bounded by the

property at 2933 North Front Street to

the north the property at 2944 North

Second Street to the east property oh

that was actually wrong so sorry about

that that's what you caught Jamie

apologies uh this detached structure

features elements of the international

architectural style uh character

defining features include the

significant building setback from the

Main Street the asymmetrical layout the

brick facade the expansive entrance

Portico the decorative murals and

religious iconography around the

building envelope and the large

congregation hall near the front

entrance there are three main entrances

along the front elevation the primary

entrance Fe beneath uh the Portico

features three full view metal doors

within a yellow metal surround flanked

by decorative sidelights and topped with

a pentagonal transom it is accessed by a

wide concrete walkway there's a second

set of full view metal doors flanked by

S side lights and topped with transoms

and a similar set of full view metal

doors flanked by large side lights

providing access to an assembly area at

the southern end of the building

penetration is varied throughout the

building it primarily features narrow

casement windows on the front elevation

with plate glass and double hung windows

on the side elevations the main

structure is topped with a flat rubber

roof while the Assembly Hall is topped

with the gabled roof featuring asphalt

shingles the grounds largely feature a

maintained grass lawn with rows of

mature trees on the northern and

southern boundaries and a cops of mature

trees in the front between the access

drives there is a metal back stop in the

Northwestern corner of the site

indicating the former presence of a

Ballfield at this location property

appears to retain most of its original

appearance and Architectural Integrity

it differs significantly from the

residential neighborhood to the west and

south and more closely resembles the

large commercial and institutional

properties to the east thus it makes

little contribution to the architectural

char character of the

community uh plan Bureau staff uh

recommends that the request be continued

uh for the following reasons um while

the bureau is generally supportive of

the overall project there are some

aspects that require further review and

consideration including a traffic impact

study will likely be will likely be

required as the project will exceed the

city's threshold of 40 trips per peak

hour uh the applicant should consider

relocating the proposed two-way

vehicular access point into a single

two-way entrance and exit located at the

intersection with Barry Hill Street to

simplify traffic flow clarify vehicular

and pedestrian movements and improve

safety for all users and um I just

wanted to note that uh did get the city

Engineers um review today and that was

provided uh to the planning

Commissioners um at your El turns there

um and that has notes and that has notes

on the uh proposed site plan uh to the

effect of consolidating uh the um

driveway uh access points

uh the applicant uh must install an ada8

compliant sidewalk on the entire South

25th Street Frontage of the property

connecting with the existing sidewalk at

the southern end of the site

additionally there do not appear to be

any pedestrian infrastructure into the

site from the public RightWay implying

that anyone arriving on foot will need

to share Drive aisles with vehicles and

tractor trailers uh the applicant will

not be permitted to install 8ot high

fences as such fences are not permitted

by right in the ins District per section

7-37 point9 e of the zoning code uh um

there do not appear to be any outdoor

players for school children although

again per our follow-up discussion um it

does not appear that there will be any

on site um the applicant is not

indicated where the required bike

parking will be located on site and the

planning Bureau has engaged the city

arur on Project reviews that landscape

and tree retention best practices can be

incorporated into the new design and to

ensure that native plants and pollinator

plants are being incorporated into the

project as outlined in the city's

comprehensive plan and then finally the

planning Bureau recommends the applicant

engage the surrounding Community to

identify changes that would help the

site better integrate into the community

identify opportunities to enhance the

utility of the site and ensure that its

future use does not retain the same

concerns and problems of the current

configuration um and again some of that

was based on uh the presumption that

there would be school children here on

site um obviously that does not sound

like that's going to be the case um but

again the applicants I think will

probably provide a little bit more

background um to that uh but um as with

any project um and especially in this

particular context of this neighborhood

we feel that um public engagement may be

necessary uh the property is kind of

located on one of the few dead end

streets here in the city so uh traffic

circulation is not quite the same as it

would be with the regular Street grid

and especially with the introduction of

tractor trailer traffic um we thought it

might be necessary to um engage the

community to understand how that might

impact um uh traffic circulation um

safety of all users and maybe just um um

you know noise uh or congestion issues

that the community may may have about

the project so with that being said our

recommendation is uh a continuance so

that we can further meet with the

applicants uh and especially with the

city engineer uh to discuss some of the

um access issues surrounding the

proposal thank you Jeff could you state

your names and relationship and

address uh my name is Jim

I'm the director of facilities for

Commonwealth Charter Academy I live in

lingal

toown

jar the civil

engineers okay and Could you um speak

into the

microphone just just to make sure we're

picking it

up need

yeah Jared hackenberry at arm group at

the 4600 Lena Drive in Mechanicsburg and

I'm the civil engineer for the

P I'm Robert Rulo I'm with Sigma 7

Design Group We're The Architects and

Engineers for

the tech services part of the building

the north part of the building

um East Street Street New York

I'm Dina Snider with strata architecture

I am the architect on the

ex I am located at 611 William pen Place

Pittsburgh okay um you gentlemen and one

lady U heard the report

and and the items for the

continuation so um maybe you want to

fill us in a little more on the project

sure I can do that um as was mentioned

um we're a we are a cyber F School uh

which explains the fact that there won't

be

students arriving on buses like that at

the at the building um we're currently

at one Innovation Way uh right at the

hack entrance uh is where our our main

building is now uh just to give you a

little bit of background that building

is full

um we've grown uh since Co and which has

uh basically as we've added students

we've added teachers uh we require our

teachers and staff to come into a

building kind of look

like um when this property became

available as a as a school were

considered a school psylvia public

school um the

location was great

the zoning is great us as a schol and

saw it as an opportunity

able so some of the things that were

mentioned you know

sidewalks with those with the

suggestions there we're happy to

accommodate we won't see students

to the building but we can we can

certainly we're happy to do those kinds

of

things but it will it will really look

like adults driving

in work stay for the

day in a general

stay again scho buses

okay

um the same question I had for the last

one did you contact the community about

your project we we did not no we we

again maybe assumed in correctly um

because we're a school and it was a

school um we assume that would be okay

to go into that area if we need to talk

to the local people we can certainly yes

I would highly recommend it you never

know they don't know what kind of school

it is they you know they should be aware

of exactly what you're putting in there

so you know it could have been a school

that you know had all kinds of people

there so um I highly recommend you do

that we can do

that uh Commissioners that's my only

question I had so at this time and if

you have any concerns or questions and

I'll start with commissioner old sorry

inic uh do I understand this is a

complete relocation of what you have at

the farm show or is this an augmentation

no we're we're hoping to move a couple

different departments uh that we just

ran run out of space because this seemed

like it was a downsizing that's why it

was no from what you had up there yeah

we'll be able to hire more people this

way okay no neon no glowing stuff along

the top of it that neighborhood no

uh how many how many teachers a in cyber

settings when we've done them you know

it could be 150 square foot per teacher

relatively small setting so you could

have a lot of people in there um I think

right now because of the Departments

that we're moving there it will be a lot

of our it people and it will be some of

the the

media U side of the school so not really

the instruction not there will be some

instructors there but the vast majority

know I mean I think our uh parking

footprint um might have been in the 70

but we think maybe there might only be

50 people in the building at the

most okay no other

question

commission commissioner re no questions

commissioner M yeah um I'm very familiar

with the in common troter Academy

location I that to tore it back when it

opened um so I understand conceptually

like this the way you function in the

setup and everything for so I'm

following what this site would be set up

as to um curious though if you could

just clarify and explain more um the the

intent of having two separate entrances

one being for trucks and the mention of

uh tractor Trail trucks being at this

site so what's going on there why would

we need a separate truck entrance so you

we won't be seeing tractor trailers

there part of the section of the

building obviously heavy

Tech's there's going to be some servers

and which will

arrive um and then you know obviously we

expect UPS

F xon to go back well they're on my

street too

y so but we want to make we wanted to

make sure we had the the the correct

curvature and and ability to get back in

and out of their or a

life but we won't be

like

okay so the possibility of um you know

based on the City Engineers comments and

and planning comments the possibility of

adjusting how the current Ingress egress

configuration is and everything are you

amenable to adjusting that that's what

it takes revising everything it seems

like the traffic study condition would

go away given the change of now

understanding the use better I I would

imagine so I'm not sure what their

shifts are like but you know when we

were operating under the assumption this

was a school and and it looks like a

school I think when you look at it and

because it previously been a school I

think you imagine 40 50 teachers getting

there at 6:30 in the morning 7 o'clock

in the morning um so I would imagine

that the um traffic is much more spread

out over a day for something like this

and they probably do not trigger that

threshold we do we Flex We

Flex okay um I don't have any other

questions

thanks Commission

no further questions commissioner

address that okay is there anyone from

the public who against this project I'm

I start with my left and center and

there's no one in my

right uh commissioner is

um I get a motion on

this okay

yeah I don't have an issue with your con

to there but I just I think the one

thing that would be nice is to get some

income tax real estate tax paying

Partners I assume you guys are nonprofit

based on your thing with the state so

from the city

standpoint it's not development that

creates anything for us so we do have a

pilot program with the city already we

do have payment taxes you do okay would

that be extended to this site it

certainly could be I want to say it's in

the neighborhood of

775,000 a year that we P to the city

okay what triggers that or what

triggered that was that an offer made or

it we do that um in we're we're all over

the state we know we're

using Emergency

Services that's where I'm coming from

yeah yeah absolutely we know that we

need to come

do that in

s commissioner I gu

some my questions for you is I also have

a follow question oh I'm sorry um this

is primarily for Jeff the um outdoor

play area for children would also

disappear well unless their staff want

to use that climbing walls and whatnot

in some of these plac

so before we vot uh again I think with

the circumstances being as they are do

we want to go for continuous or do we

are we okay with

uh with the changes with the changes

from the

people that's big question yeah I think

we answered probably the technical

questions relative to traffic which

would be a noo if we didn't have that

information that we had generation

because we have to have a consistent

approach to all um I guess the key

question is looking at the nature of

that neighborhood the distance of the

building what's directly surrounding it

I guess the Salvation Army is behind

diagonally up I guess um it is a one-way

street so there's not L of traffic but I

know the thrust that some of the

Commissioners have had to try and make

sure that there's been more of an

Outreach to the community and we've you

just listened to that on the last one

you know the that we've tried to

do that's the other thing can we add the

conditions of meeting with

the if we pass it meet with the

community know what they really are

there for how would we structure that

Chad um not really sure I mean with uh

with respect uh to whatever action uh

the commission may take you know I think

um frankly I would like to almost have

an opportunity to re-review it too in

light of the different uh operation of

the property I mean it may maybe this is

an office use it's not even a school I

kind of want to go back and look and see

what how we reviewed uh their proposed

uh the property at one Innovation Way I

believe that wasbe 15 or so around there

so that would have been reviewed under

our current zoning code and would like

to see that because that may dictate how

much parking is necessary or or um you

know just the specifics of it I think

could

uh you know having that be reviewed I

think would be a benefit to the overall

project as opposed to kind of approving

it and putting it out there and just

saying okay we'll do some stuff before

you get to City Council I think having

it be a a cleaner package that goes to

city council will ultimately benefit um

you know the applicants as well as uh

the

community with that could I get a motion

from

Commissioners motion to

continue is there a second on the motion

moved in second to continue this project

continuation all those in favor stay by

saying I I

oppostion motion

carried

continuation I will say you guys have

quite aable designer so looking forward

to seeing how this will turn

out quality

thank

you yeah that

would okay item number three this is

um uh preliminary final land development

plan application for the Harrisburg

parks and recreation

facility for the properties at uh 10:7

and 1021 North Cameron Street and 1105

her street and 1105 her street rear and

102 North 12th Street which is Zone indd

industrial it's followed by Richard far

with SS original Transportation

agency is is to consolidate the subject

properties and construct a new city

parks maintenance facility on site yeah

uh yeah yes so uh the applicant is

proposing to consolidate the subject

properties and construct a new city

parks maintenance facility on site um

and that includes the properties at 1,2

nor 12th Street 1105 H Street 17 and

1021 North Cameron Street and an

unaddressed parcel in the middle of the

block um the existing nearby facility at

901 North 2 Street um which is kind of

at the back right at the base of the

Hill below the Harrisburg Cemetery uh

will be demolished as part of a larger

project redeveloping the Susana Regional

Transportation authorities operations

and maintenance facility at 901 North

Cameron Street which will include the

vacation of public rights of way and

consolidation of lots in the block to

the South uh project site is comprised

of five Parcels 1,2 North 12th Street

which is 2.01 Acres 1105 H Street which

is6 Acres 17 North Cameron Street 34

Acres 1021 North Cameron Street 0.25

acres and and an undressed parcel of 07

Acres totaling 3.27 Acres which features

two buildings and a canopy from a former

gas station the largest paral the

largest parcel features a one-story

18244 ft industrial structure

constructed in

1960 uh the property has a limited

history of mertile permits but appears

to have primarily accommodated Auto

oriented uses on site the second largest

parcel uh 1105 her street features a

1story 2976 ft structure constructed in

1960 property has operated primarily as

a since at least 1990 first as less and

Tiny cocktail then as Ros and later as

four aces Barn Grill Parcels fronting

Cameron Street previously accommodated

gas station as evidenced by the

remaining canopy though there are no

records of multiply permits for the

properties and Google streets view

confirms there was no business operating

on site as of September 2007 uh project

site is bounded by H Street to the north

North 12 Street to the east the property

at 901 North Cameron Street to the South

and Cameron Street to the West

um and to provide a little actual

background because Commissioners may be

wondering why um Serta is building a

facility for uh uh the city um so as

noted this is a and the applicant will

be able to provide a little bit more

background but uh this is a multiphase

uh project in really the block bounded

by the cemetery hear Street Cameron

Street and State Street um and it's um

you know multiphase and it requires uh

kind of stepped uh development of

demolition and then construction then

Demolition and construction um so

they're going to be I think they're

taking the lead on this because they're

overall the developer for the whole

block um and they'll be building the

proposed parks and wreck facility that's

being discussed today uh so that they

can then demo uh the other Parks and Rec

the existing Parks and Rec facility

which is just south of sunshine Park uh

and then um all of the buildings that

are part of that Goodwill campus uh

right there and then there'll be uh

vacating rights away consol ating those

blocks and then constructing a new

operations and maintenance facility

before then demol the demol demolishing

the existing um uh bus garage uh that uh

Serta has been operating I think since

like the 1930s or something some

capacity Char yeah uh so um so that's

why you know they're uh be taking the

lead on this because the first stage of

this bigger larger multi-year uh uh

project um and so when we're reviewing

this we're just reviewing uh the um

current proposal for the uh new uh

buildings on site but it would be

helpful to keep that whole thing in mind

that this is going to be step one of a

three or four phase project uh with that

being said uh the planning Bureau staff

is recommending the request be approved

with the following conditions uh the

applicant uh must secure approval of a

letter of map provision from FEMA so

that the development can proceed as

proposed and must eventually receive

approval for both the structural

demolitions on site as well as the

proposed new construction uh and the

project team um has submitted uh the ler

to uh FEMA and is um I've recently seen

some back and forth with FEMA requesting

some additional um information I believe

uh and so I'm assuming they'll be uh

working with them to clarify uh that

additional information needs and and

provide any additional documentation uh

but they are in the midst of that

process uh currently um but they do need

FEMA approval for that before uh they

can go forward as

proposed uh the applicant should

coordinate with the city arborus to

increase the ecological impact and treat

canopy on site by incorporating native

tree species and pollinator plants

particularly on the western edge of the

site around the storm water detention

infrastructure which can also address

localized air pollution created by

Cameron Street and her street

infrastructure um so you know having a

buffer of trees um you know would help

address some of again the local uh air

quality issues as well as uh kind of

beautify the site uh for anybody travel

um on those on H Street or Cameron

Street and then finally uh if possible

the plane bu recommends removing the

southernmost vehicular access point onto

the site to remove a vehicular

pedestrian conflict point which is

especially important given the proximity

to Sunshine P Sunshine Park And to

clarify uh vehicular circulation I think

we've had some discussions about this uh

in the past in some of our meetings

regarding this project uh it may be the

case that they need to have two separate

ones just for uh the types of vehicles

for staff and visitor access then for

city um vehicle access but being that

it's directly across from Sunshine Park

which will remain as part of um the

future iteration uh of this block um

we're trying to look to reduce vehicular

um vehicular pedestrian conflict points

where possible although I should note

overall um there will be a reduction in

that uh because they will be removing

two uh curb Cuts onto HST stre uh as

part of this project and reconstructing

the sidewalk along there so um you know

they're it's already consolidating some

of the uh uh vehicular access points um

but if possible to simplify that into

one would be preferable uh but we would

understand certainly if there are

operational reasons why that cannot

occur uh the plan Bureau staff

recommends the request be approved for

the following reasons uh the project

will uh expand and modernize the city's

Parks maintenance infrastructure

improving the ability of the Parks and

Recreation Department to provide

services to Residence and a facility

that creates better working conditions

for staff uh the project site is a

conspicuous location at the intersection

of two State routes and the removal of

dilapidated and underutilized buildings

and replacement of larger of large

expanses of impervious surface with

vegetation and a modern city building

will bring aesthetic improvements not

only for passers by but local residents

and workers as well thank you Jeff could

you state your name address and

relationship to the project sure good

evening uh my name is Bill schnor I I

work with Stant Tech Consulting U here

representing SRTA as the applicant this

project I'm out of the Mechanicsburg

office

um I believe that's

okay uh you heard the staff report and

are you acceptable of the conditions yes

I read through it I'm I'm in agreement

and I uh we

are acceptable of the conditions of the

recommended

approval hope everybody is like that

I have no questions at this time except

uh this one in the future of um future

plans are they going to uh demolish the

U Goodwill the

cilities yes one of the challenges with

a facility like the SRTA is that they

need to remain operational during

construction and so once they start to

build the main facility it's prob like a

two and a half year construction cycle

so they have to remain operational so

that's why they uh the main facility is

really going to be in the area of the

Goodwill

buildings and uh while the existing

facility remains

operational

okay that's the only question I had so

far um commissioner McKenzie any

questions or

concerns yeah first of all I'm pleased

to see something happening on that site

because knowing the flood plane

elevation we did the building across the

street cap of you many years ago and

spent a great deal of time trying to

figure out how to work with reverse

flooding and seven or eight foot above

street level there was the was the flood

level and you've got to be that high

it's got to be that higher higher for

you I assume this is going to be flood

resistant as opposed to flood proof uh

it is going the first floor elevation of

uh all structures on site are going to

be uh a foot and a half above the uh so

I didn't see any Contours on here I was

trying to figure out how high that yeah

above the base flood elevation yeah now

like Mr Knight mentioned the uh there

are current studies in process and uh

That Base flood elevation is going to be

uh modified and so our low Mark that we

have submitted received our first set of

comments is to uh uh

be able to design to that base flat

elevation and then we will be you know

what that elevation is I'm just curious

38.9 okay and uh so yeah we the first

floor elevations will be a foot and a

half above okay is that what is that was

it 18 inches or 30 inches we used to

require uh our our freeboard requirement

is 18 inches yeah okay okay call there

um other than I can't conceive of

anything I've watched that site for 30

years and it's never looked any good so

um

yeah

commission no really questions I I agree

with Vern I've looked at that site for

years it's been so unproductive and glad

to

see see that change and always glad to

see something come to that Corridor so

definitely in favor of

this commissioner re no questions

commissioner m i echo my commissioner's

comments and any questions I had were

already answered just through the

additional information you guys provided

so thank you commissioner Jordan no

questions is there anyone from the

public for against this project let

start with my

left no one in the middle no one my

right

so Commissioners um this is almost

straightforward um can I get a motion

I'll make a motion to approve and I'm

turn to see if we had we do have a few

conditions listed one two and

three I'll second been move to Second

for approval with the conditions all

those in favor state by saying I I

opposed extensions motion Carri good

luck you thank

you you'll see me

again for the rest of

it correct

this is um item number four this is a

zoning map Amendment uh application

for 320 rally Street 1511 north3 Street

and 1530 North four Street which is Zone

inss

institutional is filed by Midtown campus

LP and Harris Logan LP this is the

change of parel zoning destination to

the commercial neighborhood

Zone uh yes so the applicant is seeking

an amendment to the official zoning map

in order to change the parcels uh change

the parcel zoning designations from the

institutional Zone to the commercial

neighborhood Zone uh the request um

footprint uh is comprised of three

blocks uh the project site um at 320

Riley Street uh is comprised of a single

parcel that was Consolidated from 22

separate parcels and a small RightWay

totaling approximately 1.01 Acres the

small RightWay the Grocer's alley was

vacated in October 2020 uh this site is

currently in approximately 117 space

accessory parking lot with minor

Landscaping improvements along the east

south and west boundaries although the

planning Bureau notes that the lot

appears to be sparsely used o to the

fact that spaces are reserved um or I

guess were reserved for students and

facil and faculty of the pack Midtown

campus as footprint has shrunk

dramatically in the past few years

resulting in less use uh the northern

boundary of the lot also features some

landscaping and improvements related to

the boy Street Urban Meadow project site

is bounded by the Boyd Street Urban

Meadow to the north North Fourth Street

to the east Riley Street to the South

and Logan Street to the West uh the

loock uh the property at 1511 North thir

Street uh is comprised of a single

parcel totaling 0 57 acres in size the

site is currently occupied by an

accessory parking lot with minor

Landscaping improvements along the north

and south property boundaries the site

is accessed by curb Cuts along Riley

Street North thir Street the site is

bounded by the bo Street Urban Meadow

and 1519 North thirr Street to the North

Logan Street to the east Riley Street

and 300 to 310 Riley Street to the South

and North Third Street to the west and

finally uh the block at 1530 nor Fourth

Street is comprised of 12 different

parcels and near rights of way uh

totally approximately one acre although

that was also Consolidated uh the site

is currently occupied by an

approximately 50 space accessory parking

lot bordering an unimproved gravel lot

that is is utilized as informal parking

and currently as a construction staging

area uh for infrastructure along North

Fourth Street this site is bounded by

Harris Street to the north North Forth

Street to the east the boy Street Urban

Meadow to the South and Logan Street to

the

West the planning buau staff recommends

the request be approved for the

following reasons uh the proposals

appear to have been given the current

institutional designation uh by previous

City staff and furtherance of planning

projects at the time most notably the

Harrisburg Midtown campus master plan

which was completed in April 2007 uh

which proposed the establishment of a

hack Midtown campus a project that never

completely materialized as such it is

reasonable to evaluate the current do

zoning designation and consider amending

it and consider whether amending it will

help promote current development and

longrange planning goals uh the current

ins zoning designation has adversely

impacted the cityan community as it

relied on a singular and outdated

development model which failed to

materialize leaving large vacancies in

the urban Fabric and stying potential

Redevelopment of the underutilized sites

along the corridor and finally the

subject properties are bracketed by CN

Zone corridors to the east at North 6th

Street and West North Third Street as

well as further to the South uh at along

verbeck Street and thus the uses and

development permitted by the CN district

will not be contrary to the character of

the neighborhood and in fact will

reflect the mixed use the mixed use

nature of the surrounding

Community thank you Jeff could you state

your names and address in relationship

to

project David shy I'm uh an attorney

with chman pepper lock and we represent

the

applicant and I'm Doug ntic I'm with

Greenworks development we are the

applicant uh at 1500 North Third in

harrisb um I have no questions at this

time

Commissioners and could start with

commission any concerns or

question sure I'm surprised it took you

that long to get here to make this move

I mean unfortunately I think Joe and I

were here when we went through the

resoning to try and get hacked downtown

and there was a lot of potentiality

there I'm kind of disappointed that

didn't happen but that did appear in our

comprehensive plan is something that

needed to be addressed so I'm not

surprised to see to see that coming back

and it also gives us an opportunity to

put property on the tax

rols um because we move from an to to a

commercial type use assuming whatever is

developed I see you had a couple of

renderings from a couple years ago that

Alexander did yep is that what's

proposed or just an example of what

could happen updated the the initial

rendering I think you saw the one that

had the incline solar on the roof we've

updated from there to go to more of a

flat roof and kind of change the

envelope a little bit but it's basically

a center

Courtyard and are you looking at market

rate on that I'm

assuming a little bit of

commercial like a Podium building kind

of like the kind of like a Podium

building lower stories are commercial

andare feet of retail Riley is all we're

going to do about 2500 square feet okay

okay neighborhood support yep kind of

things okay hopefully a restaurant that

service the residents as well as the

community okay no nothing more okay

commission yeah the only worse in

surface parking lot is underutilized

surface Park parking lot so I'm all in

favor of

this commissioner re no questions

commission uh yeah I would Echo both

Commissioners um very astute statements

commissioner Al

tool and I mean I remember when you

presented some plant I think they needed

a zoning uh variance and special

exception this was a few years ago

and what was the outcome of that

decision the the history of that was in

was 2019

yeah in

202 came back and

Zoning oh interesting did they Deni the

special for the parking the relief from

the off street parking the off street

parking relief was denied so a portion

of the project then reversed course yeah

so made the project impossible yeah at

this scale sure sure understandable um

yeah this this makes sense to me and um

certainly a good way to start to

revitalize this portion of the Midtown

neighborhood which we've been trying to

do bring in more connect yeah connect

Revitalize bring in more tax base bring

in more people bring more use so all

that this Project's going to be great

Fort great for the city yeah thank

you commissioner Jordan no questions

just more or less EO fellow

Commissioners they'll be nice to see

something anything there because it's

just wide

open so anyone from the public were

against this project not stke to my

left okay you come microphone

and state your name and your address uh

my name is Matt Coleman 1932 North Third

Street I guess my question is like the

area around there being zoned for

commercial how far out is that going to

expand in say beginning project so how

far out I guess that uh commercial Zone

will end up going from a peri time I

guess currently now what what are the

borders for the current zoning is it

just those that 21 whatever acre or is

it is it

going does changing the zoning expand

out one of you

these

two know

I know C

C thank you for the

question you

have and there's no one in the middle

and no one to the right the commissioner

is the

oh yeah just I just want to build on

your last comment there and I'm not sure

it's clear to everybody is that you're

still maintaining Evangelical press as

institutional zoning the uh old um

Hudson building or not was Hudson I

forget what it was

the right right that's that's being

maintained in as it is and then the the

I think it was a Hudson building where

they used to hack used are they still

using that

P still using the mid what they call the

Midtown one building yeah yeah that's

still being used so there's

still there's that was the one I think

Hudson's one I'm thinking was in the

back

corner like right here of the parcel I

don't have the right name for it but it

had been an auto they had the ramp and

all all the goodies in it as I recall so

um so you you're not stripping out by

this move completely you know

institutional uses or educational

potentialities just reflecting the

reality and quite honestly having

housing there could and the highest and

best use for those couple of lots is

what we're trying to do

yeah okay

thanks just let you know that wasn't the

Hudson building I was Hudson

building I think that's like um TWA or

some kind of

before all this firsts right a that's

what yeah that's

what with that Commissioners could I get

a

motion no conditions there's no

conditions moving to second for approval

with no condition all those state by

saying I oppose OB car good luck thank

you thank

you Jeff any

other um

nothing that I can think of off the top

of my head um so uh I think you'll try

to think there are a few cases for next

month but um because this month's

meetings were kind of a little earlier

in the month I should be able to

hopefully get the uh meeting minutes

done for you guys so you'll be able to

be caught up uh at the April meeting uh

with all the minutes and everything any

update on the

market uh so I don't know if um anybody

saw or attended there was a meeting I

want to say last Thursday Thursday um

and yeah there was uh I think it was an

hour hour and a half or so uh at the

historic harrisb Association

uh uh building um it's they I think

outlined a bit more of the uh public

engagement process that will be going

forward um provided some uh dates uh

that had occurred over the last month

year and a half uh at which you know

some mile Point uh posts where um they

were getting a project team selected and

uh some initial uh engagement with the

vendors for example so so um I believe

in that uh uh meeting the mayor did uh

you know outline that uh the priority is

first and foremost the brick building uh

and getting that reconstructed um on

effectively the same footprint um and

effectively the same way I don't know if

they know exactly what all the details

of the building will be but it'll

essentially have the same uh

fenestration pattern the same types of

Windows it'll be brick um and then it'll

have obviously some Modern uh um system

me upgrades um Ada stuff like that a

little bit more seating in it then the

second phase I believe will be the stone

building and modernizing that um

bringing again the MEP uh mechanical

electrical Plumbing uh up to up to code

and uh Ada and then finally um a new

life for the plaza um whatever that is

and the goal I believe is to have all

the systems below the plaza um and so uh

that might be a part of you know

whatever new structure sits on top of it

that's clearly uh years and many

millions of dollars you know down the

road so I think there's a lot a lot less

um certainty about what that looks like

and when that happens but the priority

is reconstructing the brick building and

then bringing the uh Stone building up

to

Cod okay anything for the good of the

order Commissioners if not a motion to J

um you're thinking the the most recent

one where they had the um youth aging

out of uh foster care uh that is not the

same group

no

yeah that I

yeah I I I kind of feel like maybe they

pulled her out of the bullpen and she

wasn't warmed up you know

um

but

yeah no I I think I think she's either

the realtor for

the I I mean I would imagine at this

meeting yes because it's recommendatory

but they probably not at the zoning

hearing board meeting

I I updated it specifically for that

reason because yeah so and I mean it's

pretty it's pretty laid out and you know

to include your contact information in

the letter that people can reach out to

you which were not included in the

letters um so uh you know we'll we'll

see what uh what they come back with or

maybe what uh further communication

results um but uh you know yeah I it was

was definitely a bit of a a short on

details yeah I was GNA say making it

nice I

know yeah yeah I was trying to give her

all the chances I was like she do even

know what she's she don't know what

she's talking about

so yeah could you tell me that what it

is again I'll move move to a Jour I know

is there a

second I heard a second somewhere who

who seconded who was that someone to

claim

it e