Harrisburg City Council - Work Session 1/20/2026

All right, good evening everyone. Again,

thank you. Um, Harrisburg City Council

hosted an at an executive session,

excuse me, prior to the start of our

work session this evening. Um, so I'd

like to call our work session to order

at 5:42

p.m.

Mr. Humphrey, could you please call the

role?

>> Miss Davis,

>> present.

Miss Green,

>> present.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> here.

>> Mr. Lawson,

>> here.

>> Miss RWS,

>> present.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> present.

>> Miss Hill,

>> present. Thank you. We have a

semi-lengthy agenda, but I'd like to get

started and hopefully we can make up for

some time. We will begin with the budget

and finance committee. I will defer to

our budget and finance committee chair,

vice president Jones, to lead

discussion.

>> Thank you, President Hill. Um, we have

from budget and finance. Um, Mr.

Humphrey, can you please read resolution

63 of 2026 into the record, please?

Resolution 3, 2026. A resolution

approving the first proposed 2026 budget

reallocation in order to authorize the

roll forward of certain 2025 budget year

encumbered commitments and to reaffirm

certain 2025 capital project and program

appropriations.

>> Thank you. Uh gentlemen, can you please

state your names for the record and

please give us a overview of resolution

3 of 2026?

Sure.

Bob Kenny, finance director.

Gotta get used to the new mic. Uh good

evening everyone. Uh thank you,

President Hill. Uh Vice President Jones.

Um what uh Brian McCussen from the U

accounting um the accounting manager

here, budget and finance. Um you have uh

before you the resolution for this

evening and it's also displayed in Excel

format. Uh thank you Jared and Cedric

for doing this. It it makes it easier on

the eyes.

Um so this is I don't want to say

routine but it's the typical first

budget reallocation adjustment that

occurs at the start of the new year. uh

namely we have uh various encumbrances

which include either purchase orders or

or contract they're they're called

contract encumbrances in munis um I

tried to simplify this um in column um E

we have the original adopted budget for

the new year and the proposed budget

amendment for each line just reflects

what the open encumbrances were at the

end of 2025

still in need still is is a commitment

and now they're rolling forward into

2026.

Um the general fund of course is the

biggest piece of this and uh if not all

practically nearly all budget units are

affected by this uh proposed budget

amendment.

Um if uh Cedric if you scroll down

please to

um the bottom of the general fund which

I think it I think it bleeds over into

the second page.

So right there uh it's 19.7

mil uh.7 million is the roll forward for

the general fund and that is so

extremely high the the predominant

factor there is there is the broad

street market uh expenditure line within

a facilities

maintenance and of the 19.7 million 16.5

is Broad Street and that's that's

approximately 84% of the total request.

Uh just for comparison, if we would

factor that out, that would leave us

with a roll forward of approximately

uh 3.2 million, which is more along the

lines that you typically see in in

previous years.

So that is the general fund and um

somewhat uh favorable news here too.

part of the way to fund this budget

adjustment. Uh last year for 2025, you

may recall there was a delay of course

in the state budget process to achieve

the capital fire protection allocation

for the city. Uh originally the budget

amount for 25 was 5 million. Uh the

commonwealth increased that up to seven.

And the good news here is this uh the

payment or the check payment just

arrived last week.

uh within the treasurer's office. So,

it's been received and deposited and

booked, but it is in effect 2026

revenue.

>> That's for fire. Correct.

>> I'm I'm sorry.

>> Fire capital fire protection.

>> So, uh we have budgeted for this year uh

just the 7 million which we anticipate

to receive uh later on this year when

the state moves on the uh the new fiscal

year budget. But with this 7 million

that that transacted now the the the

request the reasonable request here is

to increase our revenue line up to 14

million to take that into consideration.

Um so the rest of this funding relates

to additional draw on cash fund balance.

Um now the one thing to remember uh

about the city's budget we we always

have budget or open encumbrances at the

end of the year. In other words, not

still a commitment but not spent. And

the thing about Broad Street Market,

16.5 million is is out there in in roll

forward, but of course the anticipation

is we will not be spending that much

>> before the end of the current year. It

will uh uh spill over into 2027 uh no

doubt. So, but we still have to reflect

what what the numbers say and and uh

budget accordingly.

Uh that's the general fund and moving on

down uh all nearly uh all of the main

funds of the city of course are are

affected. State liquid fuels fund is

there. Uh the big roll forward piece is

uh capital outlay for streets and roads

uh projects. Um

moving down to the host fund. Uh again

this is Broad Street related. There was

a $500,000 commitment last year. Uh

that's encumbered at the end of 25 in in

its entirety. So that's rolling into 26

for for budget adjustment.

Uh the next major fund, of course,

neighborhood services. Um and it's

predominantly made up of two main two

main budget units, the public works

piece and parks maintenance. You can see

the lines there as they go down the

list. Um, and uh, Cedric, if you go

ahead further down, we'll get to a total

for neighborhood services,

which is a little over 500,000.

And again, the way to adjust for this

accordingly is to utilize beginning

ofear cash position or or cash carry

forward, cash carryover. Uh there are

some encumbrances that involve the three

burrows of course smaller much smaller

amounts but they still have uh

encumbrance commitments.

So that includes uh the line detail for

neighborhood services. The next fund is

the senator's fund. Um not quite $1

million is still open at the end of 25.

And this of course relates to the FNB

stadium upgrade project which is very

near completion but I I checked with

facilities maintenance on this and that

they anticipate that this will be needed

for for 26 uh the various vendors

contractor type vendors involved will be

submitting

I believe their final invoices. So it

still is it still is a significant

commitment out there for the senator's

fund.

And there is funding support needed to

to do that based on what the cash

balance is in in the senator's fund

which includes a transfer from the

general fund uh to bolster that up.

Uh that's the senator's fund and the

next three funds are smaller in nature.

There there are three of the special

funds including the blight fund, police

protection fund and parks and wreck.

the smaller amounts uh but but still

they're they have commitments uh still

in effect

those three

uh moving down to the final fund on on

this exhibit A is the capital projects

fund uh and again streets and roads I

mentioned there's streets and roads and

liquid fuels there's a sharing of

expense there but the bulk of the

projects are housed in the capital

projects fund so there are uh um various

uh incumbrances and and need to be

rolled uh for roll forward. And again,

the general fund needs to uh supplement

the the um resource uh the asset

resources in that fund to get it to

where it needs to be. That's the general

fund transfer piece.

Uh I can stop and take a breath right

there. That's that's the the roll

forward schedule exhibit A. if there's

any comments or questions.

>> Uh just for me, um I pretty much

understand what's happening, but just to

summarize for uh the public, what's

happening here is that money that was

previously budgeted in 2025. Um the

remaining of those funds still need to

be utilized in 2026 uh for contracts,

budget, I mean, um projects that weren't

paid for that still need to come out.

So, is that correct?

>> Yes. Yeah, that that that's the

understanding given that uh most

departments prepare their budget

uh needs ahead of the the old year

ending. So, they're looking forward and

we of course we necessarily don't know

what is going to be paid by the end of

the year when we're working on the

budget in November uh with with those

final couple of check runs that happen

in in December.

>> Okay. Um, I just wanted to do that from

myself and uh edification for our

residents and I can open the floor if

you guys um if anyone has any questions.

I'll open the floor up and I'll start to

my immediate uh right with uh

Councilwoman Green.

>> Good evening, gentlemen. Thank you for

being here tonight as always. Uh I don't

have any questions for you. It's a

pretty standard thing that we do every

year. So, thank you for being here.

Thank you,

>> Councilman Lawson.

Thank you. I I do not have any

questions. Thank you for a very thorough

presentation. Definitely appreciate it.

>> Certainly.

>> Councilwoman Davis.

>> Thank you, Vice President Jones. Good

evening, gentlemen. I don't have any

questions. Thank you for being here.

>> Councilman Rodriguez.

>> Thank you. Uh good evening. Thank you

for your presentation thus far. Uh my

question um is kind of around the

remaining funds from the trash relief uh

fund. Is that a part of the rollover

from the 1.4 or the estimated cash

carryover from public works? There was

still a small balance left from the

trash relief funds. It was around that.

That's why I asked um you actually could

still see it too, Mr. Brian.

>> I I think I'm on to what you're

referring to, but when when you say the

1.4

>> right there, I was just guessing that

that would be the line the cash

carryover because it was generally

around that ballpark, the 1.14. Oh,

okay. Uh

>> or or does that money get rolled over?

>> Well, it just just to clarify because

what we're looking at right there,

what's what's highlighted really is the

capital projects fund, which is not the

the the 2 million relief, right, that

came into neighborhood services

as income, as revenue to

>> uh that that fund, you know, before the

end of last year. So it it it created

the ending of course u it it

strengthened up the cash balance at at

the end of 25 but the roll forward

request for neighborhood services is a

little over 500,000.

>> Okay.

>> For for the new year.

>> All right. Thank you.

>> Sure.

>> Councilwoman Ross.

>> Thank you Vice President Jones. And

thank you both for being here tonight.

Um this is a standard procedure so I

don't have any questions. Thank you.

President Hill,

>> good evening. Thank you. I don't have

any questions around exhibit A.

>> Thank you. You may proceed.

>> Okay. Uh just one one additional exhibit

uh exhibit B and uh the presentation

here is just a formal reminder to to

council to be aware of the they're

they're entitled budget reappropriation

uh items and they mainly represent

capital uh type expenditures in nature

and and more so grant uh expenses that

are funded by the grant funds. Uh the

first one up here relates to the

$500,000 to move to the fire protection

fund. It's all aimed at bolstering that

fund in anticipation of the need uh for

the uh new apparatus uh fire truck uh

equipment uh that is materializing in

the new year.

So that that's to uh prepare that fund

or or or move the funds from the general

fund. Uh the next section and these are

all footnoted of course you can see on

the left there um this uh item B

footnote B um and it relates to the Dock

Street Dam where the city is uh in the

mindset of the um the permanent boy

installation project which um there is

this is sort of very preliminary or very

very early stages but but But the

strategy here is that to be aware of a

uh uh reimbursement agreement through

the Commonwealth, which would uh work

toward what what what this project

entails right now, the the the $2

million for that particular line. That's

all contained within the state grants

fund. The city hasn't uh incurred uh as

of yet any expense related to this

project.

Uh the next in in the midsection here,

footnotes C through I all pertain to

what originally was uh achieved through

the American Rescue Plan Act, but of

course uh everybody has heard me say it

where those funds for the most part were

were transferred to the general fund as

revenue replacement. Uh accordingly, the

general fund has funded these particular

initiatives.

Um, and I I I believe you're familiar

with with with most if not all of these

uh the the various initiatives including

affordable housing, um the home repairs,

the senior program, uh the uh demolition

uh efforts. Actually, that one is nearly

uh all but exhausted. There's only um in

in in column E, these amounts really

reflect what's still available in

project budget.

And the two bottom lines then pertain to

the Hall manor pool project which is

broken up into two phases. Phase one has

had some activity uh because it was it

was it was the original amount for phase

one was 2 million.

So phase one is being uh is what has

been active at this point.

Again this is all contained within the

state grants fund. So we can track uh

the activity uh through uh grant project

identifiers or project strings in in

Munis.

So that that's that piece. The bottom

piece um

um is and if Cedric if you could please

scroll down to the next section which is

coming out of the federal grants fund.

That's fund 14. Um,

this relates to the multi- parks and

playgrounds improvement project that uh

is being funded by that significantly

large uh 13 plus million dollar grant

that's that's HUD source and is being uh

passed through from uh from DCED.

And again, these these remaining amounts

show the project budget that is still

been that has been available. There's in

in recent months there's been heavy

activity uh on the projects which you

know on those footnotes identify the

locations as you can see there including

the sports field uh reservoir park and

Wilson playground.

So much expending has occurred and then

the on on the flip side of this this is

a reimbursement grant. So there is

significant already the uh through the

grants department they've been putting a

lot of effort into realizing those funds

to turn it around to reimburse the city

which has uh has been occurring in

recent weeks.

>> So that that uh covers those sections. I

can stop right there for any comments or

questions.

>> Thank you. Um I really don't have no qu

any questions. Um I do, but I think uh

um parks and reccks coming up, so I'll

save that for them. Um I have no

questions. And again, I'll open the

floor this time. I'll go to uh my far

left and start with Councilwoman Davis.

>> Thank you. I do have a question about

your last point. Um, you mentioned the

federal grant is $13 million that comes

down from the government and then the

various departments have to reimburse

the city. Is that correct?

Well, maybe I didn't say it clearly

enough, but it's it the the city pays

out uh ma mainly to the the vendors that

were that are involved in these various

pieces and then that um payment

information, proof of payment gets

submitted to uh the department of

community and economic development. And

there's also a uh a conjunction with HUD

too. HUD HUD system has to be involved

and and the two pieces come together but

and then but DCEED reimbures the city.

Um it's just there. It's one department

at at the state level.

But uh as um as as Vice President Jones

mentioned, this this is all under the

oversight and uh uh workflow process

through the uh the parks and recreation

>> department of the city. Thank you.

>> And facilities maintenance, they they

they play a role, too. I'd be remiss if

I didn't say that. Okay.

>> Uh, Councilman Rodriguez.

>> Thank you, Vice President Jones. Um, and

I don't mean to sound redundant, Mr.

McCutchen. Um, if the rollover or the

encumbered commitment from the uh trash

relief program is not recognized through

line C through I, where would I be able

to find that balance?

What's left from the program? Because

that was an encumbered commitment from

25,

>> right? Uh, but you um

>> there was roughly still a million

dollars left from the trash relief

program. So, I'm just trying my best to

follow those funds so we know um what's

left, how many more families we could

assist, etc.

>> Oh, okay. Um

>> we don't call it ARPA funding no more

because it of course. So, correct. I'm

trying to not say that but to identify

it, it was through the ARPA program

which became the trash relief program.

So, if that's not identified through C

through I, where could we get a grasp on

where or how much left is in that

program?

and um through the business

administrator's office. I I wasn't

involved in the detailed tracking of of

of what you're saying about which which

refugees disposal accounts in thei in

the system in the main frame are being

adjusted accordingly. uh there there is

there was a developed list for that on

on on the financial side why we're not

seeing up here

in that midsection I mentioned ARPA the

the $2 million in full was completely

transa uh transferred in in 2025 meaning

that had it not been transferred we

would still see it up here but uh it

happened late last year it was moved

from the state grants fund where where

it's being tracked and allocated and it

was transferred into neighborhood

services the the full 2 million those

are the financial dollars along those

lines um I circle back to what I what I

commented about the uh the business

administrators department about uh

working off of a um of a listing of

accounts that were to benefit. So I I I

can't I can't detail that for you.

believe Antonio is here. Would he mind

giving us um maybe an update about that

if possible? Like I said, I don't want

to sound redundant, but I just want to

make sure we're keeping a track of that.

And you know, because if there are more

dollars that could assist families and

local businesses, that's something we

definitely want to project and get out.

>> I understand what you're saying. Y

>> it actually did. They allocated money to

churches.

Church is a nonprofit business.

Hello, council. Hello, special assistant

in the business administrator's office.

Uh, so yeah, just to give an update on

the trash bill forgiveness program. Uh,

we did launch uh phase three. So that

went out to 578 residents. Uh, so they

have uh 10 days from the time that the

letter was mailed to get it back to us.

Um, so that timing is still ongoing. Uh

basically they have effectively until

like the beginning of next week to get

it back to us.

>> Perfect.

>> Um so we're we're getting that ongoing.

Phase one was also residents and then

yeah phase two was was churches that we

we gave back. Uh we did the list for

churches was

>> that went through hardship during the co

pandmic.

>> Right. And it was basically everyone

that went through hardship during that

time and still had a a delinquent

account. Absolutely. Um we didn't you

know there was no extra parameters on

that one.

>> Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. No.

And I I was clear. I actually spoke with

um your office about that uh early on.

So I was aware of it. I've also stated

that on the record. Um completely aware

that some churches that went through

financial hardship due to the COVID 19

pandemic did receive relief. No no uh

fighting against that. Just more more in

the sense trying to keep a track of

those dollars and how we could, you

know, stretch it as far as possible to

assist more residents in the city. That

was all.

>> Absolutely.

>> No malice behind it at all.

>> No, no, no, no. Yeah, you're good. I

just wanted to be clear that there is.

Yeah. Um Yeah. And if depending on how

many residents return it in phase three,

we could get as close as about uh $250

$300,000 remaining, but that would be

with a near perfect return rate. So uh

obviously we don't expect that. So uh

there will likely be some extra funds

left over and we'll have to figure out

>> and you guys will just keep getting it

out there trying to

>> we'll have to figure out what the next

steps are.

>> Perfect. Thank you so much for that

answer. Nothing further. Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> Um Councilwoman Ross.

Uh, thank you, Vice President Jones. I

don't have any questions.

>> President Hill,

>> thank you. Um, I have two questions. Um,

one regarding the

the pool improvements you mentioned

phase one

um is completed, has been completed or

is near completion. Can you speak more

to that or should I wait for parks and

wreck to provide an update there? Uh

that yeah that's that's probably a

better bet. But it

>> I just wanted to

>> it's but actually it's just been a minor

chipping away because if you recall it

was 2 million for phase one. Yes. But

there's still uh a little over 1.9

million available.

>> Okay. Well, I'll follow up with them.

>> Sure. Certainly.

>> Thank you. And while you're here,

Antonio, I have additional questions

regarding the um trash bill relief if

you don't mind. Um, you mentioned

so I think let me back up. The last time

you were before us was in December and

at that time I think phase the end of

phase one was nearing at that point. So

how many people um received the relief

from phase one that allowed you to move

to phase two with churches and then how

many churches? So how many people were

impacted in phase one and received the

relief?

>> Okay. So I don't remember the exact

numbers but round like rough ballpark

numbers it was about 550 were sent in

phase one approximately 265

roughly uh returned. So that's how many

people would have received the

forgiveness the first time.

>> Okay.

>> Um churches it would have been around 25

were sent out and about 20 returned. So

20 of them received uh the forgiveness

and this time we sent out 578. So, we'll

have to see how many return by the end

of the phase. Uh, I think so far we're

at around 70 have returned.

>> Okay. And when is this phase over?

>> Uh, the beginning of next week. So, they

have till till then to return it to us

either via mail or in person.

>> Okay.

Thank you for clarifying. I don't have

any other questions.

>> Councilwoman Gray,

>> thank you very much. I don't have any

questions regarding this. I think the

questions I have have been asked and

answered. Councilwoman,

I mean, excuse me, Councilman Loss.

>> No problem. Thank you very much. Um, uh,

Vice President, and I don't have any

questions. Just a a a statement, uh,

based on, uh, things that I've heard

from from people questioning, um, if we

were going to keep up with the ARPA

funds once we put them into the general

fund. So, I appreciate,

you know, detailing that we're still

following the plan that we had laid out

um for the ARPA funds before we we

transferred to the general fund so that

the public is aware that no, it did not

just go to pay the city's bills. We are

making the improvements that um we

determined uh previously. So, thank you

very much for that.

>> All right. If anyone has any more

questions or comments, um, thank you

guys for your presentation and I would

ask that resolution three of 2026 be

moved to our next legislative session

for vote and I would ask my colleagues

to support. Thank you.

>> Yeah. And um, Vice President Jones, just

one quick followup if

>> No, your time is expired. Now I'm

messing with you. Go ahead.

>> Clock is um the clock is out. Um, no.

back on uh the 15th when we were working

through the final phases of the budget

process, I gave an overview about the

general fund. Since it's such, you know,

significant roll forward, I I back at

that time, I I I said our cash position

should be I was estimating uh between uh

21.5 and 22 million. And of course, now

that the the old year has been closed

and we're underway with the new year,

the general fund's cash position at the

end of 2025 is 14.4 4 million. So had

the capital fire protection

materialized, that would have been

another 7 million. It would have brought

it up to kind of what we were expecting

uh for year end. But I I just thought

that would be a nice uh tiein to what we

proposed this evening for, you know,

increasing that revenue.

>> That's weird. That number is the same as

for the broad street market that

>> 14.4 exact number, isn't it?

>> Oh, it's uh it's close. that budget

adjustment that was done in in the prior

year.

>> Yeah. All right. Thank you, guys.

>> Very good.

>> Yep.

>> Thank you,

>> President Hill.

>> Thank you, Vice President Jones. Next,

we have the business of the Community

and Economic Development Committee. I

will defer to our community and economic

development committee chair, Councilman

Lawson, to lead discussion.

>> Thank you very much, President Hill. Um

u Mr. Humphrey, could you please read uh

resolution for 2026 into the record?

>> Yes. Resolution 4 of 2026, a resolution

approving the preliminary/final land

development plan for 1332 North Second

Street, submitted by Adam Brenamman of

Brenamman Properties LLC to expand the

existing non-conforming multif family

dwelling use on site by converting space

occupied by the former funeral home

funeral home and associated site and

access improvements.

>> Thank you. And um Mr. tonight if you

could uh expound on uh what we have here

in this resolution so that we have

information for council.

>> Uh sure. As uh Cedric noted, uh this is

a proposal uh to expand an existing uh

multif family dwelling at 1332 North

Second Street. Uh the property is or was

uh the New Meire Funeral Home. Uh so it

was a funeral home on the first floor

and there were five apartments above it.

Um and the current proposal uh involves

um establishing uh eight units in uh the

first floor and uh which is a bit more

of a sprawling than the upper floors of

the of the building uh for a total of I

believe uh 12 or sorry 13 overall um

apartment units in the building. Um the

uh I believe the new meer funeral home

uh exited the uh property sometime in

the middle of last year. So, the

property has been vacant for a little

bit. Um, and uh the applicants came

through uh for both the zoning relief

necessary to expand the non-conforming

use of the multif family uh dwelling.

Um, and uh I believe that was the only

zoning relief they needed. Um, there is

a large accessory surface parking lot on

site uh that's just to the uh south of

the property that has I think in the

neighborhood of 35 spaces. so they have

enough off- streetet parking uh for uh

any tenants or their guests of the

property. Uh and um overall uh this is a

fairly straightforward proposal for

reuse of the funeral home. Um you know

they've uh there are it seems to be the

uh most reasonable uh reuse for this

space as opposed to something else like

I don't know convenience store,

restaurant or something like that. And

as council knows, you know, the

provision of um housing helps put a

downward pressure on uh the housing

costs in the city here. So, more housing

units on our inventory are always

helpful uh to help address that. So, uh

with that being said, the planning

commission uh recommended that city

council approved the request with the

following conditions. Uh any exterior

alterations to the property must be

submitted for review by the city's

historic preservation specialist and may

require har approval of of a certificate

of appropriateness application. Um and

the applicant must coordinate with the

department of public works regarding the

size, location, and screening of any

required refuge containers. Uh planning

bureau recommends the applicant consider

eventually consolidating all refuge

storage and access in the existing

carport along the CER street frontage of

the building. I know during the planning

commission meeting they had indicated

that they uh may be looking at some

other alternatives and um I think uh in

their coordination with the department

of public works they may in fact tell

them that they need a dumpster to be

placed in the um in the on-site parking

lot. So uh we leave it up to the

applicant to work with um department of

public works to find the best solution

uh in that case. Uh the planning

commission recommends city council

approved the request for the following

reasons. The adapter for use of a vacant

and underutilized funeral home into

apartments represents a sensible

expansion of the existing multif family

dwelling use on site and the project can

adequately address the primary concern

regarding such proposals specific

specifically the provision of off

streetet parking for tenants and their

guests. Uh other conversions of former

commercial spaces elsewhere in the city

have demonstrated such projects do not

adversely impact the neighborhoods in

which they are located and often help

catalyze other improvements in those

communities. And finally, the proposed

redevelopment will add new residents to

the neighborhood to activate the street

on nights and weekends and grow customer

base to support local businesses and

will provide additional units to the

Midtown housing inventory. Uh, and with

that, um, I'll let the applicant

introduce themselves.

>> Council, my name is Michael White, um,

director of acquisitions and development

for Brenamman Group. Happy to be here.

Thank you for hearing our proposal.

Um, I could Would you like me to to

continue with the description of the

project or

>> Yes, please.

>> Okay. Um, so some of the facts, uh, Jeff

already noted, but it's an existing uh,

8,500 square foot building. Um, there is

a 5,000 square foot commercial space.

Um, if I could I could clarify, it's

being it's in light use right now. the

the current operator of the New Meire

Funeral Home is is doing sparse services

there and is is planning to to uh to

cease operations. Um above it there are

five existing apartment units. Um and

then in addition to the building there

is uh 35 parking spaces. So has a really

sizable uh parking lot and a larger lot

um in general almost a half acre. Um,

you know, with the sale, there is an

additional surface parking lot, uh, 122

Calder Street. Um, everything that, um,

you know, Jeff mentioned in terms of,

uh, of proposals for improvements that

we are, we are open to. The one the one

question that we did have in terms of

refu we're open to working with public

works to find, you know, the best

solution to consolidate trash in a way

that that doesn't um, you know, expose

residents or the, you know, the public

in a way that's that's unsettling. Um we

have uh uh we're proposing or we're

approved for eight units in the existing

funeral home space. Um we have uh a

great team. We're working with with CDA

Dawson Architects uh on the project. Uh

we're working with Inen Co. for the

construction uh Midtown Property

Management to to manage once it's

stabilized. Um we have a proposed

loan construction closing date. um

probably the middle of March, but our um

you know our final uh deadline for that

or what our goal would be would be by

the end of March. Um we can commence uh

construction after you know permit

feedback um probably about 35 to 45 days

after that. And uh we hope that we have

a very conservative timeline just given

our prior experience of of an

eight-month uh construction period. Um

and then thereafter a two to to four

month stabilization and lease. Um we're

we're really excited about the project.

Um we think that it's a it's a unique

building. It's a unique site. We hope to

make it a, you know, a wonderful

addition to the community and, you know,

add housing units. Um, and, you know,

looking forward to questions and

prepared to to help fill in any details.

Thank you.

>> Thank you very much, Mr. White. Um,

thank you. You answered one of my

questions was just making sure that you

had the uh the financing in place

because we see many people that come

before us

>> and we approve the the deal and then

things just don't happen. So, love that

you you already have that duck in a row.

Um, one question I would have for you is

uh you're using Inch and Co. as your

your general contractor. Do you have any

say um if you're as if you are able to

work with any of our um uh diverse uh

minority businesses in in the area in

the construction of this this project or

is that completely in the hand of your

general contractor?

>> Uh it's something that I'd be I'd be

happy to talk. We have an upcoming

development meeting here on Thursday. Um

and we're going to learn more about um

the subcontractor base and and the

people that the third parties that I

inch wants to work with. So um if I

could loop in with you, I'd be happy to

to receive a list of referrals. If you

have um contractors in mind, we

definitely um would be open to talking

to an about that and and seeing, you

know, how that can work with their with

their project scope and the workflow. So

absolutely open to that.

>> Okay, great. That's um

one question. One last question I have

and and this is just for my own

information.

>> I'm sorry if I could just add that that

that we do hope to be able to to GC uh

projects in the future and have more

flexibility. That's something that we're

that we're building up to um and we can

have a little bit more autonomy over the

over that process and then that would

you know empower us even more to to

consider um uh contractors independent

from you know GC controller

consideration. So sorry to interrupt.

No, no, that's fine. And and the reason

I bring that up, uh looking for like

more the the minority and womenowned

contractors, it it's basically to help

um improve uh the life of many of our

citizens. Um, basically when we uh are

intentional on on hiring these people,

we're we're getting people that will one

a be able to to move into your your

project because they have a a great

paying job and and then also we're um

hiring we're we're hiring companies that

are going to hire people that um other

companies may not look to hire because

they they don't understand necessarily

that person's background or that

person's um uh lifestyle where you have

of a more diverse um contractor group,

you'll you'll get more people that will

hire uh people that

uh others may look at and and not think

that they're uh appropriate for a job.

So, just keeping a an open mind on on

that when you do uh work as the general

contra um as your as your uh as the

general, that would be that would be

great. Um and and then the the last

question that I have is just is there

any type of environmental mitigation

that has to come when you're um

converting uh a funeral home to a a

residential unit because I'm not certain

of different chemicals that may be

present in in the process. Yeah, that

was a big um when we were assessing the

site and and and working with the the

seller and the funeral, that was a big

question that that I had and and he's

going through

um the appropriate process with I'm not

ex, you know, totally familiar with the

regulatory bodies that would supervise

the the dissolution of the of the

funeral home. Um and that's actually

part of the

>> the um the sale and the escrow and that

what the Mr. Bitner the seller that he's

going through and we're giving him time

to to do that appropriately. So that's

that's his um under his control and his

objective and and we you know we've

talked to him about that a lot just from

the standpoint that we allow a window

for that to happen appropriately. So

that's um but in terms of um the

building itself and the conversion

>> um you know we have already mapped the

sewer system. Um we've had a laser scan

of the building. Um we've had our

subcontractors in and to assess any

environmental hazards in terms of like

the disturbance of you know um demoing

the building and the existing layout as

part of the conversion. So that's

something that that that we have our eye

on and there's been prior renovations to

the building. So we think that it's it's

in it's in great shape to to be to be

converted again, I would say. And um

we're we're satisfied, you know, from a

safety standpoint.

>> Okay, great. Thank you very much. That's

everything that I have as as far as a

question. I'm going to just go to my

immediate left here and um Councilwoman

Green, do you have any questions?

>> Thank you very much. Thank you,

gentlemen, for being here tonight. Uh I

think it was a pretty thorough

presentation, so I don't have any

questions. Thank you,

>> Vice President Jones. Any questions?

>> Yes. Thank you. Thank you, uh for being

here and your presentation and being

willing to do a project in our beautiful

city of Harrisburg.

>> Many more to come. Yeah. Uh, I'll just

reiterate what, uh, Councilman Ross, I

mean, Lawson has said. Um, for me, I

won't go into too many things, but I'll

just ask two questions. And something

that I'm very passionate about is is

ensuring that, um, local people in the

city of Harrisburg, I won't use

diversity, equity, and inclusion. I'll

just say, you know, contractors here in

the city of Harrisburg have an

opportunity. And I know this is a small

project, so I'm not looking to get 50%.

You know, this is just a ask. It's not a

requirement. It's a ask. Um, this is

just something that I'm very passionate

about ensuring that, uh, the locals have

an opportunity to be included in the

economic growth of our city. Um, how

many jobs you think will this create?

>> I think, uh, 15. um in terms of the

primarily just via the the um the

subcontractor

uh skilled labor base.

>> Okay.

>> Um and I also that um we we do have um

projects that that are coming up too

that like I said that so when I say that

you know we we venture to to to GC that

we we do have projects coming up that

we're going to have uh specifically that

we have site control that are you know

very likely to happen. Um, so I I would

hope that this could be a, you know,

continued conversation about absolutely

who we employ and and how thoughtful

that process is. So,

>> well, absolutely. I'm just speaking for

uh the residents again, um, being my my

uh my lifetime here in the city, you

know, I've witnessed a lot of uh

construction and development happening

where um, a lot of us were cut out and

um, I'm just being that voice. Second

thing, um, safety wise, I see in here

that you guys won't be changing any of

the lighting. How efficient is that

lighting in that area to make to ensure

that the residents in that uh area can

have some some good lighting? I see some

of the historical things that you may

have to go through, but do you believe

the lighting is efficient in that area?

>> Um we're we're continuing to assess. I

think that that we want it to be a um a

much improved site in general. Um, and

we're we're still working um with some

of our subcontractors to figure out with

the facade and like what what the best

way for the building to present uh you

know as safe uh and attractive for the

community. So I don't I don't have a

specific answer right now other than to

say that it's for me personally it's

something that I'm I'm very focused on

even from a from a marketing standpoint

you know just uh in terms of the

profitability of the project that you

know we want um the site to be

transformed. Yeah. And we want people to

feel, you know, we want people to feel

good uh and safe about where they live

and we want the neighbors to feel good

and and and safe about what is is put in

their community or how buildings are

changed in their community. So whether

you know uh lighting um to the degree

that that we're allowed to um and then

uh safety in terms of safe access to the

building. Um

>> yeah, I see you have maybe three

different interestes to this property.

>> Yep. So, that's something that we're,

you know, we're working on with our

subcontractors and that we're at a

really critical point right now. We're

going to get a lot more detail here in

our in our coming meetings, but it's

it's a focus of mine. I can say that.

>> I appreciate it and I hope we can get an

update on that on those safety measures.

So, that would be great. And that's all

my questions. Thank you.

>> All right. And, uh, President Hill,

>> thank you. Good evening. My questions

are around affordability.

So, I wanted to know if uh this project

will be participating in the affordable

housing 20% relief.

>> Uh it will not. Um but when I when I

came before about 3:15 North Second I

think we we heard that feedback and and

we did um rework our you know our

performing our project and we were

working with the affordable housing

trust fund to try to take two of those

units um of the 10 and and make them

affordable. So we're it's something that

we're working on. Um we have other

actually our next two projects that we

hope to complete are going to be 100%

affordable um 28 units total um as

proposed right now. So, it's something

that we're, you know, going back to a

prior project to try to institute um and

that in our future projects that um when

and you know, we look at a lot of

different things, but these are very

present and future projects that that

are going to be 100% affordable. So, for

this one, it is not going to be, but

that we it's something that we're

passionate about and focused on and that

we're putting a lot of resources into

now and I think um over the next year

and a half that we're going to be able

to add a lot of affordable housing to

the and these are all projects in the

city. So,

>> Okay, great. Um for this project, it

would have only been approximately three

of the 13 units, but I'm glad to hear

that you are revisiting with the other

project. Um, it's just it's something

that I'm passionate about because it's

great to have um

rehabbed

um properties or even new units

available to our residents, but if

nobody can afford them, they're going to

remain vacant, right? Um, so I think I'm

glad to hear that you heard what I said

and that I'm going to continue to ask

because it's important, right? Um, one

developer once said, "Oh, it's going to

be a beautiful building." I'm like,

"That's nice. It's going to be beautiful

and empty because nobody can afford it."

So I just want to ensure that um I guess

not this project but your future

projects you are um taking the city

proper median income into consideration.

>> Yes.

>> I don't have any other questions. Thank

you.

>> Thank you. Um Councilwoman Ross.

>> Thank you very much um Councilman um

Lawson.

Um I just just to piggyback off of um

President Hill, I was wondering um if

there not going to be any affordable

apartments, how much are how much is the

rent going to be uh for the apartments?

I think it's one bedroom and two

bedrooms.

>> Yes. Yes. Um the the rents range from uh

1,000 per month to 1,800 per month and

the average is uh just over 13.

>> Okay. So, the 10,000 would be for the

one bedroom and

>> that's for a studio actually.

>> Oh, that's a studio. Okay.

>> Oh, wow.

Okay. Um, and then I just had a couple

more questions. Um, one of my questions

and it it actually wasn't until you were

speaking about that there were

apartments currently in the funeral home

and then you're converting um the bottom

level into I think eight more

apartments. There's five at the top. So,

I was thinking, are is there anybody

living currently in the five apartments

at the top? And okay. And so, I was just

thinking about them like, are you going

to be rehabbing their apartments? If so,

how are they going to be displaced? And

if you're not, then how are they going

to be displaced? If you're while you're

doing the bottom level. Um, so I guess

my question is just around like how are

you working with those residents? And is

there going to are they going to be

displaced at all? What kind of

provisions are you putting in place to

make sure that they're okay?

>> We do not have any plans to displace

those residents. Um

>> they are in terms of the current

occupation, I would need to when we went

under contract, it was uh 100% occupied.

So all five of the apartments were

occupied.

>> Okay.

>> Um we do not have any

>> we would like to from a maintenance

standpoint, the units are very nice

right now, but we would like from a

maintenance standpoint to improve them,

but we don't have any plans. It's not in

our budget to totally renovate them and

give the residents notice. So, our plan

is is to is to keep the residents in

place.

>> Okay. And you're and since you're not

going to re be redoing their apartments,

is their rent going to be raised?

>> The we don't have any plans to to to

raise rent on those residents right now.

Um we haven't had any communication with

the residents. Um I uh you know, and I

actually need to get more updates on

exactly the status of the occupancy. Um,

okay.

>> And, uh, but as of right now, we just

want to keep things as they are.

>> Okay. I mean, I know, um, per se it

doesn't really have anything to do with

the a vote on this property. It's not

part of the land development, but they

are a concern for me, the residents that

are in there, and just making sure, you

know, they're okay. The rent's not going

to be raised just because you are

rehabbing the bottom level, but you're

not going to be re renovating their

apartments. But if would would you be

able just to let us know how many um

residents are currently just living

there just for our

>> Yeah, I can get an update from the from

the seller and then as we kind of get

closer to our our actual settlement date

which is related to the construction

loan closing that I can get exact

information.

>> Okay, thank you. I appreciate that. Um

and then I just had um and just correct

me if I'm wrong. I just wanted residents

to know about the parking because

parking is a huge issue in the city. I

just wanted to make sure they knew that

um from the understanding you're going

to be providing 16 spaces for this um

multifamily dwelling that which is the

recommended amount and there could be

more spaces because there's a I think I

think uh you said across the street

there was a possibility or you could use

extra space. the the second street lot

actually has 36 spaces. Um and so

actually the you know separate from the

16 there's an additional 20

>> um that will be

>> um

>> there for flexibility. Okay. Um and so

there's that one of the uniqueness

things about this site is that there's

plenty of parking. So um and that right

now that parking will not be leased to

the public. Um okay because we do not

have permission to do that. Um,

>> so from the current resident standpoint,

um, that there's going to be plenty of

parking.

>> Okay. And will the parking be free for

them and the current residents that are

living in this dwelling?

>> Uh, right now for the the current

residents, it is free and we don't have

a plan to change that, but for the for

the new units, we're we're working on

our proform. There might be a fee for

parking. Um, and that's part of

assistance to to finance the project.

>> Okay. And how much are you looking for

to possibly charge the new residents of

the eight newly constructed apartments

or renovated apartments for parking?

>> My awareness of um the the rates is that

we we're either going to put it into

rent and it'll be part of the rental

consideration. We need to talk to our

property management company about where

that would be, but my awareness of the

market is between um 50 and and $75 per

month. Um but we have to, you know, once

we get um greater clarity on cost, we

have to decide exactly what we're going

to do with that. Um but um right now

it's up in the air. I need more info

from the property management company

about what they think would be the best

thing to do.

>> Okay. Thank you so much for answering my

questions. That's all for me.

>> Thank you, Councilman Rodriguez.

>> Thank you, Chair Lawson. U Thank you

both for joining us this evening and

providing this presentation. I don't

really have questions, just some

sentiments for it. Um, I'm appreciative

that you'll be overhauling the amenities

for the current residents that are

there. Um, just to kind of match up if

there is I I guess if there isn't a

chance to upgrade, um, how would you go

about that or you just work like a

normal maintenance kind of let them

know, give them a heads up, make the

corrections, and kind of keep them in

the apartment?

>> Yeah, I think we take a lot of pride in

in in maintenance and our

responsiveness. Um, so I think that it's

a little bit of a of a balance to not be

disturbing, but wanting to improve the

quality. Um, so I think that our normal

process would be to reach out to all

those residents, you know, uh, how has

maintenance been? Do you have any

problems? What would you like to see

improved? You know, what are your plans

long term, you know, for for residing

here? And then, um, I think the basis

would just be super responsive to

maintenance and immediately take care of

of any problems, especially as they

relate to habitability. So, um I think

it would just be some communication and

kind of understand, you know, many that

they may say, "Hey, my unit's great. I

like my privacy." They may say, "Hey,

this these issues have been ongoing and

we need you to take care of them." And

and we are well resourced to do that and

we take tremendous pride in, you know,

all of our properties um that that's the

case that they're they're well taken

care of.

>> Thank you for that. And um I do

understand there has to be a bottom line

when you're doing any kind of

development so you can make the project

work. But uh 1,300 for a studio and like

upwards to 1,800 I think you mentioned

>> thousand for the studio, 13 average.

Yeah.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. That kind of just

screamed, you know, not so affordable

for the area. Um and just kind of the

question of what kind of tenant are we

looking for? or is it just business

people coming into the city to work

downtown, which we definitely need some

more life pumped into the Midtown

downtown area? But we definitely need

some affordability for maybe, you know,

single parents or, you know, something

something afford along the lines of

that. So, that just kind of screams out

to me right away. Um, but I do

understand there's, you know, a bottom

line that you have to, you know, even to

make the project work, something has to,

you know, give weight. But I am

appreciative of uh the consideration of

your previous you know developments and

going into the affordability with those

units and I just look forward to future

developments and how we can make that

work for the families in the area. But

um the current parking lot you did

mention you would retain that as well

though, right? Um the the one that's

connected to the Okay.

>> Yes, that's part of the

>> And just for my own curiosity, is there

a crematory like in the building right

now like in the facility? Uh yes,

>> there is.

>> There is.

>> Yeah, I believe there's Well, I'm not

totally I don't I don't believe so

actually. I don't think that there is

cremation proceedings.

>> That's what I was I was curious about

that.

>> No, I don't I don't I don't think so. I

have not I have not seen that. It has

not been disclosed and I think that

their process is is different from that

on that on that site.

>> I didn't want to be on Ghost Hunters or

anything.

>> Yeah. No, this is Yeah, this is

>> But people are going to be living here

now.

>> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And what I just

was curious because I know sometimes a

lot of fuel lines would have to be

connected to those furnaces. So that

could just be a lot of more work on your

end, but I was just curious more than

anything. It's not very frequent we get

these kind of developments, you know, um

restructuring old, you know, uh morg or

funeral home or crematory. So I I am

appreciative for you gentlemen being

here this evening. And that's all I

have. Thank you.

>> Thank you. Yep. Thank you. And then

Councilwoman Davis.

>> Thank you, Councilman Lawson. Good

evening, Mr. Knight and Mr. White. Um,

most of my questions were answered, but

I still have a few, well, two and then

one statement. What drives what what is

driving you to consider uh your next

project of 28 units and all of those to

be affordable?

>> Two separate projects um for 14 each.

Um,

I think it's really important. Um, you

know, I, uh, I didn't grow up directly

in the city of Harrisburg, but I spent

my entire life in, in the area. Um, and,

uh, I think that I'm very interested in

in learning um, and and participating in

more opportunities for affordable

housing. I think that they're and I just

look as a company, we want to be

balanced. You know, if we're going to do

market rate projects, I want to do

affordable projects, too. So we have

>> um you know two market rate projects

that you've heard about. We've gone back

and and made an adjustment to one and

then we have two affordable projects um

coming up. And then part of that was

actually just a process of you know

we've you know been educated by uh other

people on um you know what the

opportunities could be for the city um

and for us. So now

>> that's why you know the next couple you

know we're we're working hard for

affordable projects. So, it's balance.

Um, it's a it's a love for the for the

city of Harrisburg and and and wanting

there to be, I would say, a beautiful

building that is also affordable,

wanting to do great structures that are

accessible to a broader part of the

population in the market. And then from

a just wanting to be balanced and and

and help all the city's residents as

opposed to like a target population that

can afford rent that that might not be

accessible to to others.

>> Thank you. I appreciate that. And are

any of your units um developed for or

will they be developed for uh handicap

persons?

>> Well, on 1332, one of the interesting

things about the building is it has many

ground level access points. So, the

entire all of the units um and

the I think per code actually there's

going to be accessibility all the way

around the building just because of the

nature of the the units being on the

ground floor. So,

>> right.

>> So, I would say that a big part of, you

know, the the work around the building

is making sure that we have the

appropriate ramps and access all all

across the building and that's a big

part of what we're working on right now.

So, for 1332 and then

>> um for 315, yes, um too, we do have um

accessible units and then for our

upcoming projects um they're going to be

a little bit more challenging. um 2100

North Third, it's going to be a little

bit more challenging just because of the

historical nature of the building and

we're going to have to create that

access. Um but yeah, the general answer

would be yes. And sometimes it's

dependent on the site and the project

and we take advantage of that when we

can and sometimes we need to work to to

make sure that's the case.

>> And some of the other handicap features

would include like the bars in the

bathrooms to help persons too

>> that are handicapped.

>> Yep. I think openings, thresholds,

>> right?

>> Um access to the building and then um I

would just say in general just from

humanto human standpoint that um

>> we are open to we want to make units

available to everybody from the leasing

st you know standpoint and if somebody

came to me that needed accommodations um

like you know um accessibility bars and

bathrooms that I would be happy to to to

accommodate that. Um so thank you for

asking.

>> Thank you. And then

would you send out a letter to the

residents in the neighborhood um making

them aware that there's going to be

construction and maybe heavy equipment

there. Um, often times, uh, companies

come into the neighborhoods and they may

start working at 7:00 in the morning,

8:00 in the morning, and they're making

all this noise and nobody in the

neighborhood is aware that this uh, I

just think it's a, you know, nice uh,

touch and shows the respect for the

community as well as your tenants on the

second floor in that property.

>> Yeah. What? Absolutely. Um, and I know

that there's already been notice as part

of the standard process for our our

zoning hearing and and planning

commission. So, we we have had public

circulation of the, you know, of the

project approval process. And then I

think given the gap in time that it

would be appropriate to give an

additional notice when we have a a firm

construction day so everybody's aware.

That's

>> Thank you, Mr. White. That's it for me,

Mr. Councilman Lawson.

>> Thank you. And then, uh, Vice President

Jones said he had a follow-up. Yeah,

just one quick question um that I meant

to ask you. Uh far as the do you have an

estimate of what kind of taxes this

project would bring into the city

>> um

in terms of uh property tax revenue?

>> Yes, sir. Um I apologize. Yes.

>> Is it uh

>> just off the top of my head? I mean the

current um assessment um is around

20,000 uh a year and then

>> the improved at the common level ratio

there would be uh a significant increase

but I wouldn't know exactly until the

the the appraisal and I work with we

work with Van Allen and they're really

helpful on the tax side. So I don't know

exactly but there's definitely going to

be a massive improvement um you know to

the building and um

>> so you have to reassess.

>> Yeah, but we might I want to be that

that we might also pursue abatement

though too. So long term um it's going

to be a much improved building that is

much more valuable and um has a much

higher assessed value.

>> And so when you're looking at abatement

what what time I mean like five 10

>> there's a I think for it was just it was

just um or it's in the process of being

approved or it was just approved again

for 2026 and this would be the the 100%

residential tenure.

>> Okay. Thank you. No further questions.

>> Thank you. And then I had just one

followup just because there were a

question about the uh the rent range. Uh

what is the the unit mix as as far as

like types of bedrooms? Uh what are we

looking at there?

>> Uh primarily one-bedroom units, uh a

two-bedroom unit, and a studio. in terms

of the units created and then the

existing I think that there's there's

two threes

uh two twos and a one or a two and two

once I haven't really we don't um just

with respect to the residents and like

the current owner we haven't had the

most access to the to the occupied units

because that's disturbing and so um but

that's my that some of those units are

actually bigger

>> great thank you very much

um council would anyone have any

follow-up questions

>> not a follow-up question. Just want to

say within the perimeter of that

facility, of course you have Morris

laundry mat, you have Stillies, you have

the Grilled and Juice Bar. So just that

development alone or rejuvenate just

that small corridor right there, Second

Street. So you know, we get into the

habit of creating more developments like

this, we could really pump some more

life into Harrisburg. So

>> yeah, we're very we're very excited. I

appreciate you mentioning that. It's a

really cool corridor and part of the

city and we're hoping to contribute to

that.

>> Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you, Chair

Lawson.

>> Thank you. Thank you gentlemen very

much. Um I would uh like to uh move uh

resol resolution 4 2026 to our next uh

legislative um session. And I'm going to

uh encourage my uh fellow council

members to support this as we do need uh

more development in our in our in our

city and bringing it to that area would

be a great asset to the city. So,

thank you very much.

>> Thank you.

>> And I believe Mr. Knight, you're going

to stay right where you're at. Um,

Mr. Humphre, could you read please uh

resolution 52026 into the record?

>> Yes. Resolution 5 of 2026, a resolution

approving the preliminary/final land

development plan for 2601 North 3rd

Street, building 1, submitted by Gregory

Hawquist of Penmark Harrisburg Holdings

LLC to convert the vacant hospital

building into a mixeduse building and

associated site and access improvements.

>> Thank you. And once again, we have Mr.

Knight. And this time, I'll remember to

ask um who are you sitting with?

>> Sorry. Go ahead. council.

Uh my name is Greg Hulquist and I'm with

Penmark.

>> Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Hulquist.

And uh it looks as if we have a uh

presentation if you could please.

>> Yeah, I'll do a little introduction and

I'll hand it off to Mr. Hawquist to go

through the PowerPoint. Um uh so as

Cedric noted, uh this uh proposal is

actually the um second phase of the uh

poly clinic hospital campus

revitalization.

um council may remember I think last

year uh reviewing uh building number

three which is phase one uh which is at

the northern end of this site um and was

the former nurses quarters uh so that

was a bit more of a I think easy

conversion to apartments this is going

to be a conversion of the main hospital

building uh at the southern end of the

site uh so much bigger um institutional

space um so uh the proposal is um

significantly different in terms of both

the number of units and the types of

uses that will on site. Um they're

proposing to convert the vacant hospital

into a mixeduse building featuring 130

residential units, associated amenity

space for tenants and both space

reserved for retail store uses and space

set aside for future development

proposals. Um so that will allow the

project to I think evolve over time um

as uh some of these units come on board

and as I think they probably further

their engagement with the neighborhood

uh the surrounding neighborhood. They've

been um h having a lot of meetings as

you may recall from the first phase of

this project. Uh the project proposes

units in a variety of configurations and

sizes from studios to three-bedroom

apartments and from 544 ft to 1144 or

sorry 1143 ft. Um again this is uh the

second phase here. Uh the um applicants

have a uh significant amount of parking

associated with that. You can see in the

upper right hand corner of that uh uh of

the um PowerPoint slide there, the

parking garage. I think it's somewhere

in the neighborhood of like 400 parking

spaces, 440 parking spaces in that

garage. And then there's also a

significant amount of on-site surface

parking um to the west of the main

buildings there. Um and uh as noted, uh

there will be it's going to be a

mixeduse building, so there is space um

along the fourth street frontage for um

some outward facing commercial uses and

then some kind of flex space for the

future on all of the floors. Uh so that

would be I think a really unique aspect

of having some sort of a commercial or

community focused space on upper floor.

So it's not necessarily just entrance

right in at the ground level. Um but uh

overall, you know, this uh is a very

unique and challenging um footprint of a

building and floor plan of a building.

Uh so we're excited to have somebody uh

that is um on site and uh working

through the process to hopefully bring

this property uh back into productive

use for the city. Both contributing to

uh the tax base as we've heard before

here and then also providing um new

housing units for um potentially current

residents of the neighborhood as well as

future residents. and then some um

neighborhood focused um commercial and

community uh amenity space. Uh with that

all being said, uh the planning

commission recommend that city council

approved the request with the following

conditions. Uh the applicant must

reconstruct portions of the fourth

street sidewalk to be ADA compliant and

specifically the loading dock in the

middle of the block. Uh the bureau

recommends that other points with

vehicular crossings utilize driveway

designs with consistent raised safe

raised sidewalks across them for safer

uh vehicular pedestrian conflict points.

And uh that first point was if you uh

are familiar with the process, there's

like uh two loading docks off of Fourth

Street that trucks would back into right

off the street. So it kind of cuts up

the sidewalk right there. So, we're just

recommending that that be, you know,

reconstructed and hopefully to have a a

raised crosswalk design across some of

the two vehicular access points um into

the site on Fourth Street. Uh the

applicant must coordinate with the

Department of Public Works regarding the

size, location, and screening of any

required refuge containers. Uh the

planning bureau recommends the applicant

consider eventually consolidating all

refuge storage and access in the

existing vehicular access areas along

the Fourth Street frontage. And again,

there are two kind of little pocket um

parking areas, loading areas off of

Fourth Street uh for the former hospital

there um that would perhaps make a good

location for uh trash trucks to be able

to get into and also to keep uh the

refues uh off of the public rightway uh

frontage. Um the applicant must ensure

that any proposed signage for the

businesses on site is in conformance

with the applicable regulations or they

must secure the necessary zoning relief.

And finally, the planning bureau

recommends that sheltered bike parking

be provided at the main entrances to

both the residential and commercial

components of the property with secured

bike storage potentially located in one

of the proposed amenity areas on the

first floor as shown in the floor plans.

Uh planning commission recommends that

Harrisburg City Council approve the

request for the following reasons. The

adaptive reuse of a large vacant and

underutilized institutional building

into a mixeduse building with lower

level retail store spaces and apartments

above represents a unique and

challenging project in the city and will

support redevelopment of the remaining

buildings that comprise the former

hospital campus. Additionally, the

applicant is retaining flexibility in

the project by reserving portions of the

building for future development

proposals which will help the project

grow more organically to support the

needs of existing residents of the

neighborhood and future residents of the

development. A successful redevelopment

of this institutional site may help

catalyze redevelopment and reactivation

of other institutional sites to the

north, including the former William Penn

High School and the Zebo Shrine. Other

conversions of former commercial or

institutional buildings elsewhere in the

city have generally de demonstrated such

projects do not adversely impact the

neighborhoods in which they are located

and often help generate other

improvements in the in those

communities. And finally, the proposed

redevelopment will add new residents to

the neighborhood to activate the street

on nights and weekends and grow customer

base to support local businesses while

providing a new neighborhood focused

space and will provide additional units

to the uptown housing inventory.

>> Mr. Hus, please.

>> So, I put a little presentation

together. to see everybody again. Uh,

council,

um, is it okay if I give a quick update

on building three, what you guys

approved in November, just to sort of

update you on what's happening?

>> Um, next slide, please.

>> So, this is an overall progress schedule

of building three. Um,

yeah, it started out with city council

approving the zoning. We went in for

land development approval.

Uh, we submitted that in August, so you

all approved it. I think it was July 7th

and then we submitted on August 1st. We

went in front of uh planning commission

on 93

and they recommended it for approval and

then we uh went in front of you on 113

and then 1110 you voted it into

into action there and so we from that

point we went into detail design.

The detailed design is basically at the

point now of going out for bid. Um the

reason I highlight that uh is about the

questions around minority participation,

you know, which is something I'm sorry

I'm a little sick. So, uh something that

I um talked about every time I've been

in front of council is something that's

important to us. And um so

hopefully all those the subcontractors

will be seeing those drawings. Uh we got

our demo permit on 9:30 and we started

demolition as soon as council approved

in November. Um we started demolition

and we actually had to stop because we

ran into some structural questions. This

is an old building. It's 100-y old

building or at least portions of it are.

It's um actually was built over four

different time periods. So all these

different structures and questions came

up. So, we had to stop, pause, get

questions answered, and then we're back

under construction again with the

demolition.

And our construction will really get

started in earnest as soon as that demo

is far enough along. We did get our

building permit. Um,

I guess uh yeah, January 13th. So, we're

ready to start and we'll steam ahead as

soon as our demo is far enough along.

Next slide, please.

I wanted to give a quick update on the

um historic tax credit process. It is

very involved and

um it's important that I talk about it

because we have told the neighbors and

told council that we're going to

preserve the building and I just thought

it would be important to let you guys

know where we are with that. Next slide.

So this is kind of the layout of the

overall program. When you submit for

historic tax credits, you have to go in

with the whole campus all at one shot.

So that's building three, building one,

and building two. Our main focus right

now is building three, but we are

working on the tax credits for buildings

three and building one at the same time.

I circled that building three because

the next slide,

uh, please, next slide.

This is the the schedule for building

three only. And every one of those lines

is a lot of work. So we have a

fourperson team working about halfime

for the last five or six months on

getting the historic tax credit. So it's

just sort of a no one can read any of

that I know but uh

next slide please. Uh a little uh sense

of the progress. We are very fortunate

to have an excellent uh demolition

contractor

who's really doing a great job and um

this is kind of some before uh we really

started on the first first the fourth

floor, excuse me. Uh and are working our

way down. And next slide. And this is

what that looks like after about four

weeks. I mean the I want to say the

hardest part of the fourth floor looks

like this. and you could eat your dinner

off the floor. I mean, it's insane how

clean and and thorough and good a job

that's a local contractor.

There are ample

folks here. We just have to find them.

And um this is an example of that. So,

next slide.

We talked a little bit about

um the last time we got in front of you

guys about site logistics and that was

important and we it is locked down just

like this. Hopefully if any of you have

driven by you see that we really try to

make sure that the site is tight

um that there's not loose anything

anywhere. It's like we've got a really

good construction manager, a really good

demolition contractor,

and we're doing our best to follow the

the rules. We have a couple more um

meetings with the neighbors coming up.

Um those are going to go on the city

website out of the gate this time

instead of the last time. We found out

the hard way that we were getting a poor

showing because we weren't advertising

it the right way. And uh so we'll just

do that right out of the gate. This will

be our sixth and seventh

u meeting with the neighbors and we'll

give them an update uh as well and talk

about building one because right now all

eyes are on building three but building

one's more the same. So we want to make

sure everybody's

u connected with what's going on.

Building one would follow building three

by about two or three months. Three

months say

u so it had to do with financing why we

split it up that way.

couldn't go to a bank and have them

finance 230 units all at one shot.

Um, next slide.

Um, so a little bit uh more about uh

building one which is phase two. So land

development on building three is done.

This is about building one. Next slide.

Uh this is where it sits on the site. I

think most folks are aware of it. You

all have seen I think all of this

before.

um in the zoning uh the resoning

application and again with the land

development application that we just

submitted

and these are just some 3D views of it's

all in a model so I asked the architect

you know sent me some pretty pictures

whatever and that's what he sent me so

next slide

um so this is an aerial from the fourth

street side and the uh reason I wanted

to show that is one. It kind of shows

the mass of this. I get lost every time

I go in this building. It's five

stories, including the lowest level.

It's 205,000 square feet roughly.

We can't use all the square footage with

the zoning uh limit that we have with

230 units. This campus really could

support more like 300 units. Um

we just we can't use it all. Um, next

slide.

And the these are some street views. Um,

the main entrance, that's the

picturesque entrance that everybody

sees, but honestly, the street views on

the right and on the bottom is really

what everybody sees. And that's the old

on the right is the old emergency um

entrance,

which lends itself to a grocery store.

Um,

pardon me.

So, we are talking to someone right now.

It's not Whole Foods.

It's a local

It's a local uh merchant who has two

facilities in the city now. And this

would be about 6,000 square feet. We We

could do like 10 or 12, honestly. And

for a

medium-sized grocery store, you want

like 10 to 12. Uh,

but they want about six. And we think it

would be great uh to be able to have a

local

merchant, you know, provide that kind of

resource for the neighbors. Uh, we will

make no money here. We know that. It's

not for that. It's really to try to

though

we're going to try to work something out

with them. Hopefully we can. Um they

were going to be here tonight but their

daughter is sick. So um so that's

you know a use there. That would be

great. And that's on that corner on the

bottom. But what you see when you go

down four street and I know it's quiet

and we've heard the neighbors loud and

clear. We understand their concerns. We

think now not like we live there and we

don't proclaim to act like we know

exactly but I've had developments come

in my neighborhood and where I lived in

outside of Philadelphia and I'd like to

think I understand that

uh we need to listen to them. But right

now it's a blight like it's an eyesore

and it's getting worse. And one of the

nice things about the historic tax

credits is it gives us some funding to

clean the brick up. Um, and that's a lot

of brick in that building.

Hundreds of thousands of square feet of

brick. It's crazy.

But anyway, so next slide.

This is the first floor. It gives you an

idea of the apartment layout. This was

in your should have been in your packet.

You all you all got a packet right from

Yeah. Okay.

Um and you see on the upper right there

that we left

an area um conveniently for future that

was it would be easy to develop later

because it's vertical. So you can

imagine running sanitary stacks with

apartments up on below you. So we we

kind of left a wing.

Right now, our zoning limits us to

really apartments um in terms of use,

but we're capped out in terms of

capacity. So, we're

whatever we do, we're going to have to

go in for zoning relief

um and get approval and go through

zoning hearing board and go through

planning, go through city council. And

obviously, that's a very heavy neighbor

community concern. So, we'll have to do

our homework and make sure we get the

word out and solicit uh feedback from

the neighbors and make sure we hear

them. So, so that's one possible use.

Another would be a small hotel that

would require zoning use relief.

We're not allowed to do that right now

with CN zoning. So, again, we'd have to

go in front of the neighbors.

Whether or not that's even in the cards

or not is to be determined. you know,

we'd have first have to attract someone

to go in front of zoning, you know, so

we're somewhat limited. It's a big

building. Um, and then the next slide.

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm go back to So, the

building itself is 203,000 square ft.

Uh, it's five stories. We are utilizing

124 of residential and retail is 15,000.

So, it's about 139 of the 203. So that

gives you an idea. There's still 63,000

square feet which in itself is a whole

project.

Um and then building two is another 27.

So it's

90,000 square feet. That

it's a lot. Um next slide. And this is

an important slide because this is the

first floor which is massive. It's all

the back of house for the hospital and

you are somewhat limited to what you can

do down there. I mean there is window on

the four street side.

Um so we could do residential units

there but I mean even we have a lot of

amenity uh carved out here. You still

have a lot of future. So,

um, but the retail along Fourth Street

is really what we're we're excited about

trying to make, um, as much of that

happen as possible. And so, the grocery

would go in the corner right now, and I

just got plans back from

from that merchant, uh, on Saturday, and

we're going to meet on Friday

and start to work the numbers and see if

we can come to a an agreement there. And

then the middle section is what we had

called out as a possible restaurant. It

is also too big for a restaurant.

Um, so it could be two or three

restaurants. Honestly, it's big enough.

Um, if anybody's interested in some old

boiler room steel,

we're we're taking inquiries. I mean,

that thing is loaded with boiler room

steel. But

um and then the the far left is was the

old wash room and we had that pegged as

a gym.

It's too big for a gym,

but I mean certainly a portion of it and

there's a good amount of amenity here

that we could we could make use of and

more retail if if there's an interest.

But the the retail is somewhat

fragmented. It's not like a strip mall

because there's space in between. So,

it's sort of isolated, but it still will

generate some foot traffic. Next slide,

please.

Um

I This is a slide I presented last time.

There's at least $30 million in

construction, about uh 50 full-time

equivalent

conservatively

uh phase three jobs and 70 I think the

last applicant said 15 and this is more

than three times the size. So I think

that's conservative 50 but um

and uh they this building would be 90.

So, it's a lot of jobs. And our our goal

is to try to

we're going to try to split this

building up so that more folks that are

local can participate and get their beak

wet, so to speak. Um there's plenty of

work to go around.

There's really too much for anyone

contractor here in any trade. So,

we expect there will be two or three

drywall and framing contractors. uh two

or three demo contractors,

two or three electricians, you know, or

more, whatever it needs to be. Um but

that it's it's a good opportunity for

that.

Um next slide.

Uh we talked about uh not to beat a dead

horse, but we have meetings six and

seven coming up on 23 and 210,

and we'll go through uh the city website

for that. I talked to Jared today about

who to do that with and he sent me the

information. So, we'll set that up. Uh,

I want to touch on I know the questions

will be asked, so I'm going to touch on

it anyhow. The past neighbor meetings,

the questions were around parking.

We talked about parking last time that

we have more than enough parking and

that a lot of the parking like right now

there's no one in these buildings. like

we're not taking up any parking in the

neighborhood. It's not what it's not us

that's doing it. It's still a concern

that we do not add to that. Um

it's really UPMC is is the issue. We've

offered spaces to residents if we have

the garage and anybody that wants one

and we'll continue to offer that at the

public meetings.

Um traffic was a concern as a an office

building. We So we we hired for building

three, we hired a firm to do a tripgen

letter and that was at the city

engineers request and we met with the

city engineer.

They asked us to do a campuswide letter

or a tripgen letter which we did. We met

with the city engineer. So I'll show you

what that showed in one second. Um

security and safety was a concern. you

know, will this bring crime into the

neighborhood? We explained that studies

would show that it does the opposite. It

brings

population that otherwise it's a it's a

vacant lot. Like we've found squatters,

you know, there's it's hard to keep up

with with that. There's not a fence, you

know, like a barbed wire fence around

this property. So it would bring light

and you know not overly done but it

would bring

attention and focus to the to the area

uh as far as security and safety go.

And then they had the neighbors had

construction related questions. When

would it start? What time would it

start? Things like that. We think we've

hopefully we've ironed that out with

building three. Um, in terms of we

haven't had complaints. Uh, we did have

one call a neighbor explained that there

was a strobing light going off in our

building. So, that's good. It was an

false alarm, but

that was good. I think it was a power

outage or something in the area. Next

slide, please.

We showed you the parking plan last

time, and that's the garage that Jeffrey

was referring to in the upper right

there.

And so it's not nothing's changed as far

as that goes. We have

actually

we have more more than enough parking

because the parking the more than enough

parking was based on a certain maxed out

situation which we're not even going to

exceed with phases one and two. So

next slide.

So there it is. Uh that's the capacity.

Next slide.

Um, this you didn't see. Uh, this was

the trip. This was the, uh, campuswide

tripgen. The most recent use of this was

as office and we went over this with the

city engineer building one, which is the

ones that are circled.

We just lost that lease like a year and

some months ago. Um,

so it'll go from 252 peak in the AM to

66 as an apartment building

at 240 to 266 and on the weekend 179 to

63. So it's a redu a significant

reduction from an office use to a

apartment building use and

multi-residential use

uh mixed use. Next slide.

That's it.

>> All right. Thank you very much. That was

a a great presentation. Um I personally

have uh a stake in this project just

because I live not too terribly far away

and hopefully um the retail is going to

be something that we can enjoy. I love

the idea of bringing a grocery store a

little closer to home that I can walk to

and and and take items back. And also as

a hotel, excuse me, not a hotel. Very

wishful thinking there. But as a uh

as a hospital, this is where I I learned

my grandmother was human. So getting

Yeah. Actually, she she became sick. And

before that, you know, you you just look

at your your your parents, your

grandparents is they're they're super

human. But right there is so it's a it's

a it's a piece of of Harrisburg history

that does mean a lot to me. And I and I

appreciate you um touching base on some

of the questions that I would I would

have had for you is definitely want to

see minority uh and and diverse business

um uh

access to this to this project as well

as a lot of our our local residents

because again we want to keep as much of

that money in the city limits as

possible um so that we're we're

providing good jobs for for our

residents. Um, and it it may have been

in there just of curiosity from uh from

our last discussion. What what is like

the the mix of apartments? Are we

looking at one bedrooms, two bedrooms?

>> So, it's uh studios to two beds. We may

in building three have some three beds.

Um, we're going to continue to look at,

you know, what the market says. It's

really saying studios ones, twos, but we

we have enough room to have some threes.

Um, so we'll I think we'll have some

threes. The rents are

uh they were a tad higher, they're a tad

lower now. Uh we start in the mid 900s

for studio

and uh we're right now we're we're not

at subsidized

you know low-inccome h tax tax credit

housing levels of affordability

but we are at market rate 80% AMI for

many of our units. um the financing that

we have just won't allow for u

the lower level of affordability like

30% AMI.

>> Um but like the last applicant, we're

actually

we're meeting with Brian Hudson, we're

we're exploring

really being able to do affordable with

the right financing.

um Allah

Tar Castile and Leseawn McCoy and Aaron

Donald like those guys got his

low-inccome housing tax credits which is

what you need for that level of

affordability whether you do four or 9%

deter you know it's whether or not

you're at 30 or

50 or 60% we're at 80 but that's what

the private market would require but

that's where our levels are so it's that

mix and about that that uh price around

u 13 to450 for a one bed and uh 1,600

for a two bed.

>> Okay. Thank you very much.

>> Yeah,

>> that's that's everything I had as far as

questions. So, I will uh come to my left

here with uh Councilwoman Green if you

have any questions.

>> Thank you very much. Thank you,

gentlemen, for being here tonight. Um, I

don't really have many questions. We've

discussed this project a few times over.

So, glad to see it it progressing and

moving forward. Also glad to see that

you're using some some local companies

uh in the construction uh which is

something that you discussed, but a lot

of times we never hear the followup

whether people actually use them or not.

Everyone says they're going to, but not

many actually do. So, thank you for

following through with that. So, thank

you.

>> Thank you, Vice President Jones.

>> Thank you. Thank you for uh coming in uh

this evening and giving us an update.

But I will just share that I I have been

to this site several times and um you

are correct, Councilwoman Green, that um

I I've actually seen locals working

there and and and I thank you. Um she's

correct. A lot of people come in and say

that they're going to do these things.

Not that we have any compliance around

that. And hopefully it's okay that I

stop by because I don't want to seem

like I'm the compliance officer.

>> You're all welcome.

I I did go there and I seen it and um

>> just stop telling our contractors what

to do. But

>> no uh but I really appreciate that

because um that that is something that's

very near and dear to my heart. Not that

my uh opinion or you know uh weighs on

this project. But I I really am glad to

see that that that's happening. And um

to hear the future um I agree with

Councilman um Lawson um grocery stores.

We know we're in a food desert. that's

something that's really needed in the

city and I think um again being in that

walkable area it would definitely help

the residents and the last thing that I

would say is um please keep me updated

because I did um come to a few of the

first community meetings that you had um

and just giving that update I just I

would love to hear what some of the

residents in that area have to say about

the potential of the things that you're

looking to do and where they're at with

that. So and I can also share that with

my colleagues. So again, I just want to

thank you uh for bringing this project

to our city and uh keep up the good

work.

>> 700,000

>> taxes.

Well, I'll say thank you, Vice President

Jones, and I'm going to say thank you

for that 700,000 as as well, President

Hill.

>> Thank you. Good evening. Um many I think

many of my questions um were answered

through your presentation, but I'm

excited we're moving to phase two. Um

also excited that the grocery store

you'reing a local merchant, so that's

really exciting. I hope their daughter

feels better. Um a restaurant or

restaurant. Um the gym, maybe downsizing

the gym. Um, and then some of the

concerns of the neighbors. I'm glad to

hear that you're continuing to

communicate. That was going to be one of

my questions. Um, but the two meetings

on February the 3rd and February 10th,

I'm hopeful that you'll have good

attendance there. Um, also happy to hear

that you're re-evaluating the rent

range. Um, I'm sure you knew that was

going to be a question of mine

>> somehow.

>> Not so much. Not so much. um

the low income. I'm trying to capture

the median. So, those that fall in the

middle that sometimes um don't have an

option for affordable housing. So, um

that would be in your discussions

um moving forward. Just remember that

catchall in the middle that sometimes um

is not eligible right for the low income

um

set aides and then

it they don't make enough for the um

higher rent range. So just keeping that

communication open around the rent I

think will be helpful for me. But um I

don't have any other questions. Thank

you for your updates.

Thank you. Um, Councilwoman Green or

Green,

>> don't worry. I I messed yours up

earlier, so you got me. I

>> um No. Um, I was just also going to uh

just the same sentiments as um President

Hill with the median income because

there are those those slight people in

the middle. I always say I've been one

of those who just um I don't get

approved for lower income, but I really

don't make enough for what they want me

to pay. So, just that little middle

person. So, just thank you again for

think rethinking those prices. Um and I

also wanted to say I I applaud you for

trying to find retail businesses, local

ones to come in. Um I think the grocery

store idea is great. We are in a food

desert as um Vice President Jones said.

So having that grocery store right there

helps a lot of um individuals, a lot of

people get to food and people who aren't

living in that building, people around

the neighborhood. So I think that's just

going to pump up our local businesses

and really help our residents. I know

you guys were looking for more ideas. So

I was over here thinking to definitely a

hairdresser. If you find one, just say

it helps. Um, but even with the gym, I

know you said that space was really

huge. So, if you can put an indoor track

within that gym, I think I know a lot of

people say, you know, there's isn't one

really. I mean, there is a talion lake

near there in a way. You can walk on

Front Street, but if you can't go

outside, I feel like an indoor track is

helpful. And then it also helps people

in the neighborhood to come in and use

those facilities, too, as you all let

them. So, I just wanted to throw out

some ideas and say thank you.

>> Can I touch on that?

>> Yeah, sure.

>> So,

regarding the grosser, you know, we also

don't want to be the the developer that

brings a grosser in from outside. That's

going to that's just going to fail

>> because they're not connected with the

community. They're too big. The the the

quality is not there. The prices are too

high. Like so this grosser we're excited

is that they have two locations. One is

about 3,000 square feet, one's about

2,000. So the combined of those two is

5,000. Like

>> this would probably be cheaper rent.

>> Right.

>> Honestly, and we're we're looking to try

to make it work. Like

>> Right. And like you said, they're local,

so people know them. They're connected

to the community. They know those needs.

So um that was really that's really

important. So, I think that's a great

idea.

>> So, I'm glad you all you I can see that.

So, thank you because it's a like you

said, it's a huge vacant building and to

leave it the way it is will bring more

crime. That's a fact. There's statistics

on that. More blighted buildings, more

crime. So, um

>> with the school, middle school,

>> right? The pendant. Yeah.

>> The old um v high school and then a

vocational school. So, I I just think

that um this is needed. So, just thank

you. Um, but that's it for me,

Councilman Lawson.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Ross.

>> All right, Councilman Rodriguez.

>> Thank you, Chair Lawson. Um, it's

refreshing when developers come in front

of us and they listen. I'm not saying we

know all or have the recipe, but uh you

know, if you add up all the years that

you know, we've been residents in

Harrisburg, it's a pretty heavy weight,

you know, on this uh day, and it's just

it's refreshing that you take the ideas

and even if you can't, you try to work

them in. Um everything from the progress

chart to the community outreach update.

It's refreshing. A lot of times we ask

for this feedback. We ask for, you know,

have you done community outreach? You've

came with a whole table, right? And

showed how it goes on. Um, it's very

appreciative and it seems like to me

you're building an ecosystem where

families can work, eat, live, learn,

play all in one setting. Don't have to

travel too far. From the kind of setting

that you're putting together in the

team, you won't even need a car, you

know, really. You you'll be

selfestablished right where you are. And

and and that that's just pie in the sky.

That's amazing. Um, I know we previously

previously spoke about a jazz club. Is

that like out out the window?

I mean, honestly, the the Well,

>> I'm a I'm a huge jazz person myself. Um,

>> but I'm not going to sit here and shine

you on like

>> the neighbors are concerned about noise.

Now, if we can design it in like to a