Harrisburg City Council - Work Session 4/15/25

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Mr. Trudeale, could you please call the

role?

Miss Daniels.

Miss Davis, present.

Miss Green, present. Mr. Jones, here.

Miss Rolls,

present. Mr. Rodriguez, present. Miss

Bowers, present. Thank

you. Uh, we are going to go a little bit

of out of order. As you heard,

Councilwoman Daniels hasn't joined us

yet. Uh so we are going to begin with

the business of the public safety

committee. I will defer to our public

safety committee chair, Councilman

Jones. Thank you, President Bowers. Um

so we have Mr.

Luff, our legal here, uh representing

the administration,

the right. Yes, Jonathan Love.

Okay, go ahead. My apologies. Assistant

city solicitor.

So, what we have here

is resolution 20 of

2025. This is the

resolution approving the submission of

the petition for the Pennsylvania Liquor

Control Board. There was a map that

was already

uh in place. This ordinance had ran out

as of January of this year and so we are

um continuing it for another five years.

Open it up for any questions.

So explain that part again. So you're

saying the one that you have now as it

stands as resolution 20 they're looking

to extend that for another five years.

Correct. So the actual noise ordinance

was from 2020 until 2025 and it ran out

January of 2025 and so we are looking to

extend that from 25 until 30 for another

5 years.

Good. Good. Um, so for me, um, you know,

the last work session that we had, I'm

going to just again say that I'm going

to be looking to make an amendment to

revert this map back to um, resolution

85 of 2017 for that same extension. And

with

that, Yep.

Yeah, that's what they're so correct.

What Jared is handing out right now is

the map of 2017.

along with the description of the

boundary of what it was in 2017, which

is what I believe uh Councilman Jones

what you had asked for. Yes.

So, I'll let my colleagues take a look

at the map

first. And if you guys can um I don't

know if you had a chance or if you

looked over what the what they were

proposing for resolution 20 of 2025

where the map was cut off at Forester

Street and I'm looking to Yes, sir.

doing our legislative um to bring this

back

to 85

2017.

So, you guys pretty familiar?

Councilwoman Davis, Vice President

Green. All right. So, what I'll do right

now is um I don't have any questions. Uh

it's pretty clear what what I'm asking

and I'll open up the floor to my

colleagues to see if they have any

questions and I'll start to my immediate

right. Uh Councilman Rodriguez. Thank

you, Chair Jones.

Um, do you feel from a legal perspective

there'll be any challenges or

discrepancies from any local businesses

or residential areas uh outside of the

map or directly outside of the map? Like

has there been any contention thus far?

None that I know. It would be kind of

hard to hard to guess or speculate, you

know, who would outside of this map have

issues, but nobody reached out. No, not

as far as I am aware. I believe

Councilman Jones um the reason why he

wanted to extend it to this map is to

encompass those businesses who have

reached out specifically to him. Yep.

Okay. No further questions for me. Thank

you, Councilwoman Ross. Uh thank you, um

Councilman Jones, and good evening.

Thank you for being here today to

present this um for us, Mr. Love. Um, I

just want to know uh the residents who

are online to know the process of what

will happen um with the amendment that

Mr. Jones is making with the public um

comment just so they know what's what's

coming up um when it comes to um their

voices being heard about what they think

about the map um being amended.

Absolutely. So there will be actually

two times to where the public can uh

come and make comment. You guys have to

vote on this. Uh so they would be

allowed to come to that legislative

session and make comment on this as well

as once it gets passed by city council.

Then it goes uh the liquor control board

will have their own uh public meeting

and it will be held right here. So

they'll have two chances right here in

this building to come and make comment

and they can let the liquor control

board know specifically the same way

they can come to you guys.

Thank you for telling us about the

liquor control board being here. I did

not know they would be a part of the

meeting as well. Um so that's that's

helpful to us and to the public. So um I

just want to clarify they actually have

their own P. So it won't be you guys

have one and then then they have one

separately. We're there just Okay.

Gotcha. Okay. So they would need to go

to both meetings to express their if

they need to I should say. So, when the

um liquor control board has their

meeting, will that be posted on our

website? Like, how will residents know?

Okay, the liquor control board is having

a meeting that deals with um businesses

that are in my area about this map being

amended back to what it was. How will

they know? Do you know how they So, it's

going to be publicly

um yes, the same sunshine act. Okay. So,

we would have to put that out there.

Okay. Thank you. That's all the

questions I have. I mean, I know that um

previously, and correct me if I'm wrong,

these businesses uh were a part of the

noise control ordinance and then they

were cut out of the noise control

ordinance and that's when it got amended

to um so first it was what it was in

2017. They were a part of it. Then there

was some type of change where they were

cut out. So now we're basically just

restoring to what it was in 2017. Would

that be correct? That's correct. Okay.

Thank you. I just want to make sure that

nothing happened that

um that they were cut out that can't

answer why it changed in 2017. I don't

know, but I can tell you that this is

what it was in 2017. It did in fact

change and now it is going back to what

it originally was, which I think is

important to know, right? I don't know.

I don't remember anything happening, but

um I don't think a lot of people knew it

changed either, except the businesses

that were affected. So, that's all my

questions, concerns, and um knowledge

for the public. So, that's it for me.

Thank you. Uh President Bowers, thank

you. Um I just have two questions. I

wanted to

um know if we could please review the

the new boundaries or the former

boundaries. I guess that would be um

included in the amendment just so

everybody's aware

where it was cut off at Foster and where

it's going to go back to in 2017 if I'm

correct. Yes. You want me to put it like

on I have it exactly where it was before

as far as the description. I have the

description as to what it's changing

to. See if I have the written

description as to what it was. Okay.

Just want to be clear so everybody knows

the And do you want me to read it onto

the record as to what it was? Yes,

please. Just so everybody can hear

because everyone can't see um what we

have. Not a problem. Okay. So it

was beginning at a point being the

center of the intersection of Forester

and North Street. Then s southerntherly

along the center line of Northfront

Street to midpoint of the former

Cumberland Valley Railroad tracks. Then

easterly along the center line of the

former Cumberland Valley Railroad tracks

to the Harrisburg Transportation Center.

Then northerly along the eastern

boundary of the Harrisburg

Transportation Center to the center of

Market Street. Then westernly to the

eastern lot boundary of Tax Parcel

092

031 known as Fifth Five North Fifth

Street. Then northernly and

westernly following the lot boundary of

five North Fifth Street to the center of

North Fifth Street. Then northerly along

the center line of North Fifth Street to

the center of the intersection with

Walnut Street. Then east easterly along

the center line of Walnut Street to the

center of the intersection with North

Seventh Street. Then northerly along the

center line of North 7th Street to the

center of the intersection with Forester

Street. Then westerly along the center

line of Forester Street to the center of

the intersection with North Front Street

being the place of end.

Thank you. And then my second question

is I know um in previous discussion

uh we weren't clear on the number of

businesses that would be impacted. So I

just wanted to know if there were any

updates there as far as the I just want

to make sure I understand your question.

Are you asking how like how many

businesses are impacted by it changing?

Yes.

I do not have that answer off the top of

my head. Okay. So, so what it was, what

they did show is a um we looked at a map

of all of the licensed um businesses

that had liquor licenses in the area and

it's quite a few. It's it's a pretty

large number. I'm sure there are more

than there were in 2017 because other

businesses have emerged since then.

Absolutely. But if again from looking at

the map that you so graciously put

together um it was uh other businesses

that have liquor license but will not

weren't included in the original map and

will not affect them either way. Okay.

Okay. Thank you. And I can say that

there we did actually start with

everybody who has a liquor license in

within the city of Harrisburg and I can

and I can show this to you as well. This

is where we started from. Okay.

Thanks.

Okay. Thank you. I don't have any other

questions.

Vice President Green. Thank you,

Councilman Jones. Uh, thank you for

being here tonight. I don't have many

questions. Um, just the first question I

have is how many complaints did we get

or did we get any complaints um of

establishments that were part of the old

map that we were looking to originally

extend? And I would my answer to that

would be back at the last session I

believe I can't remember exactly how

many he said but he uh

officer you weren't here can't remember

his name off the top of my head right

now but he had a number of complaints

but he he said that he didn't have them

broken down as to uh noise complaints

specifically for the liquor. It was just

general noise complaints. Right. So, I

wasn't sure if we had gotten that

information and if not, can we get that

information so that we can, you know,

just I mean, general noise complaints

doesn't really do us any any good.

That's just like noise complaints in the

city of Harrisburg and I can probably

name a hundred of them that never got

responded to, so they probably aren't

documented. So, um the ones that are

specific to the establishments with

liquor control licenses, I think, um

will be pertinent. And then um even if

we can get a list of what those

establishments were so we can see which

ones would be affected um by the new map

were not affected. I think that would be

helpful for me. Um just you know just

for knowledge purposes. Um and this went

into place in 2019. Correct. This map

that 2017

no the old map the one that we're

currently looking to extend went into

place in 2019 was voted on in 2019 and

went into effect by the liquor control

board in 2020. 2020. Yes. Yeah. It ran

out in 17, right? And then 18 it was

redone. No, you're talking about the one

that you're trying to tell about the new

one. Okay, I got So, technically, we're

talking about this map, but the

residents don't have a copy of this map.

The residents don't know anything about

this map. The legislation that we're

talking about is I got you. So, I just

want to I'm asking questions about the

legislation that is before us so that we

can then talk about the amendment at the

legislative session. Um, which, you

know, I understand what we're looking to

change it to. I just want to have the

information on what it is now. Um,

because then it can help inform our

decision on why it might be good to

change it to that. Um, also, I know

that, um, Solicitor Grover did note that

the liquor control board wasn't happy

with the zigzaggy map. Um, is this map

too zigzaggy, do you think, for the

liquor control board with the way that

it's extended up and through the city?

It is the map. I thought so. Um, and are

we looking to make We want anyway. I

know we won it. Um, but did they have

any recommendations?

They

wanted easy more more to the one that

you see on resolution 20. Right. Right.

It's for this

office city.

City

Council and please

don't for Extending these kind of things

into the

neighborhood a whole

different

city up front.

All right. I completely agree with you.

I was just asking as far as when it

moves to the next level um what some of

the obstacles that we might face are. Um

and then I had another one. You said you

do have a copy of the establishments

that we can get a copy of. Mr. Trust. Um

that was my other

question. And I think that pretty much

sums it up. That's it. Thank you,

Councilwoman Davis. Thank you,

Councilman Jones, and thank you for the

updated map. I would like a copy of the

um establishments also. Thank you, Mr.

Trudale. And um in reference to the

residents,

how can they file a noise ordinance

complaint?

Or if an establishment is making too

much noise in the middle of the night,

what do they do?

Well, I mean it if they're within this

area, I would say it would be the same

thing to make any kind of complaint.

You're going to

call you're going to call the help the

police 911 make a complaint and they

will allocate it however they allocate

it at the time depending on what that

person tells them.

Okay. And how can they follow up if the

noise is from an establishment to make

sure that their complaint was addressed?

I would say they should follow up in

their normal course of if depending on

who they're complaining to. If they're,

you know, they want to come down and

speak to city council, they can do that.

If they want to go to the the control

board, they can do that. Um there's it's

really going to be kind of up to them

and how they decide what they're saying

and what they're looking for.

Okay. And do we have a time frame for

when the liquor control board will be

meeting? Do we know any of those dates

or I know nothing will happen until we

actually fill out the application packet

and send it to them. And that won't

happen until we have a resolution passed

from you guys. So, it's just a that

would be step two of the process, the

liquor control board. Once you guys uh

vote and pass it, then we'll get that

ball moving.

Thank you.

And Miss Daniels isn't here, right?

Okay. Well, thank you. Oh, she is. Oh,

apologize. Uh, Councilwoman Daniels.

All right. Thank you. All right. Thank

you. Uh, that concludes the work session

of public safety and I would ask that

this um resolution be moved to our next

legisl legislative session and I would

ask my colleagues to vote in favor.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We will go backwards on our agenda and

move forward with committee business uh

with the community and economic

development committee. I will defer to

our committee chair, Councilwoman

Daniels, to lead discussion.

Thank you.

Resolution 21, 2025, a resolution

approving the preliminary/final lot

consolidation and land development plan

to construct a new city of Harrisburg

parks maintenance facility on site. The

existing nearby facility at 901 North

12th Street will be demolished as part

of a larger project redeveloping SRTA's

operations and maintenance facility at

901 North Cameron Street, which will

include the vacation of public right

ofway and consolidation of lots in the

block to the south and associated site

and access improvements.

as far uh good evening. This is Oh, I'm

sorry. Oh, go ahead. I wasn't aware

anybody else was here.

Uh Bill Schnore with Stantech. We're the

uh consulting engineer uh for the the

overall project. The plan that's before

you uh right now is the new parks

maintenance facility that would is

proposed at the corner of her street and

Cameron Street and

uh Rich Var and SRTA and and the other

members of the team were before council

about a month ago explaining the overall

larger project. This is the first phase

uh to construct a new park maintenance

facility and uh to be able to uh proceed

into the larger SRTA operation and

maintenance facility which would

demolish the existing parks maintenance

facility.

I guess for

me

tonight,

but our rel

That work is done. Our relationship will

be such that we will come to

you at no cost.

Mr.

probably

uh I'm not quite sure where you're going

with that, Rich, but uh

well uh perhaps perhaps I can take over

a little. Uh this is Jeffrey Knight,

playing director. Um so uh the South

Regional Transportation Authority which

is uh is the owner of all of these of

the subject properties involved in this

particular um application. Uh they own

most of the properties in the block

bounded by Hurst Street to State Street

and Cameron Street to the Harrisburg

Cemetery. Uh and in that general area

you have um Sunshine Park, you have the

existing parks maintenance facility

which is just to the south of that. uh

which is behind where the good goodwill

campus is uh right on Cameron Street and

then just to the north of that uh is um

uh Certa's existing uh operations and

maintenance facility. Um and so this is

really kind of a bit of musical chairs

which is why the project is described as

it is. uh the first step of which uh and

is uh the construction of a new parks

maintenance facility at the corner of

her street and Cameron Street on

properties that are owned uh by uh

Serta. Um and so because Serta owns most

of the properties in this um project and

because their larger in this block and

because their larger uh project is

really driving this first phase of the

development, they're kind of operating

as the master developer for this and

therefore they were the applicant on

this particular application. Um once

they're able once the uh new facility is

built at this location, um they will

then be able to demolish our existing

facility just south of Sunshine Park. uh

which will be part of the footprint of

their uh new operations and maintenance

facility that will consolidate uh some

of the some of um the agency's

operations and staff into this site uh

and will replace the the Goodwill campus

right there. And the reason they're

doing it in this uh uh sequencing is

because they need to have uh access to

the existing operations and maintenance

facility uh the cat barn uh you may know

it as uh throughout this whole thing so

they can keep the system running and

keep the system moving. Uh so once

they've developed that new facility then

they'll be able to demolish uh the

existing one. Um so this is really the

first phase in that like multi-sequence

project. Uh and again because cat or

serta owns most of these properties um

they're kind of functioning as the

master developer for this overall

project.

So the city owns you know structure uh

so the city owns sunshine park uh and it

owns this existing the land that it

existing facility is on just to the

south. Um but once this project pardon

me yes uh and uh but once this facility

is complete um as I think um Mr. Schro

was saying the uh SERTA will hand over

this land on which the facility is built

to the city. So they will be selling I

guess the land to us um once this

facility is complete and then we I guess

as part of that transfer and again I

don't know the exact um you know process

by which this will occur but uh we will

then be selling like our land that the

existing facility is on to SERA for them

to do their larger project.

And Rich can correct me if I'm wrong.

This is Neil Grover, but basically

there's a series of entities involved in

this process. It's very long. It's very

detailed. and numbers of uh documents

will come back to the council over time

because any land transfer or land

acceptance is a legislative function. Um

this is being driven by there there's

professionals who are in place who have

been put in place for the overall plan

and the order of events matters for cert

to be able to build this effectively. So

early in this process is getting our

this other building that we're in taken

care of and the land transferred because

of the complexity we have talked

repeatedly about simplifying the legal

process not doing every single piece you

know separately but as the overall plan

there's streets involved here there will

be roads opened roads closed in this

what I consider maybe others disagree

like a twob block square block area so

that so the whole map of it will come

back and the rights of it will come back

in a series the documents to council

just like it'll come back to the board

at Certa. You know, there's a lot of

approvals that have to happen along the

way. There's been a lot of approvals

that have happened to date to get it

this far along, but there but the but to

take every one of them and do them one

at a time would just slow the track

down, you know, from how we're doing it.

So, there's been a lot of back and

forth, but but the finals aren't final,

if that makes any sense yet, until you

really get into some of the the the uh

actual construction and laying of

foundations and those things. That kind

of detail will keep coming. So, it will

keep coming through the city for a

number of years till this gets final.

I've lost track of what the end date is

where they hope to be done all the

construction. Um but but it but this

process that is about $150 million

project all in. So it's got a lot of

moving parts and a lot of regulators to

satisfy along the way. And so there's

been a lot of effort to satisfy those

regulators at different levels. So but

there will be packages that come back to

the council once this moves with

specific meets and bounds and things

like that. But it's it's hard to do it

on the front end, right? The original

plan was rejected, you know, and then it

sort of started over again. So So it has

to get to its final point. So this is

the beginning of a process from I think

a legal point of view.

So any

the city building will be built first.

the new one and with that built for us

to take over then the city building that

exists which is the park and rec

maintenance will come down right so that

they're replacing our building to let

their overall footprint work. So um we

are benefiting on the front end from a

new facility uh and they so they can

keep it moving. It's important to

remember that the city and what CERTA is

it's a it's a regional transportation

authority. The city has appointed voted

seats on that board. So the city is in

this process through its representatives

on, you know, a monthly basis that

they're there as well as the

representatives of the other

municipalities that are

involved.

Sure. Uh, I'll just finish giving the uh

Yeah, I'll just uh finish giving the

planning bureau's um case report uh of

the planning commission's discussion and

resolution and then I'll hand it over to

the applicants to uh fill in many gaps

that they feel is necessary. Uh so again

as I as I noted this is the first step

in a a multi-phase process. Uh the

existing um footprint of where this site

will be is five individual parcels. Um

and it basically includes a canopy of a

former gas station at the corner of her

and Cameron Street. Just behind that is

a restaurant that used was most recently

for Aces. Uh and then behind that

there's a larger industrial building

that has had a variety of autooriented

uses over time. Uh most of this site is

uh paved. Um it's frankly uh in various

states of dilapidation. There's

overgrown weeds. Uh so overall the

project is going to uh have a

significant improvement um to this

really um conspicuous corner uh in the

city here at the corner of her and

Cameron Street. Uh there will be um

on-site storm water management

improvements done as part of this. Uh

there will be two uh different buildings

uh for the parks maintenance facility.

Uh and if and it's going to be it's

going to significantly modernize uh both

the um facilities for parks maintenance

staff uh and also the operations. And if

you've ever been in the existing parks

maintenance building, uh last time I was

there was like you know February and it

was cold inside like it's probably not

weather weatherproofed or climate

controlled. So, uh, this new building,

uh, will, you know, really raise the

standard of, um, of the city's

facilities, uh, with respect to this,

uh, particular department. Um, uh, in

addition to that, uh, there will be some

changes to the right ofway around the

site. Uh, right now there's some curb

cuts onto Hurst Street. Uh and although

there's not a lot of traffic to and from

these sites, um there is some and

because of the uh multiple curb cuts

along her street and their proximity to

the intersection with Cameron, uh it can

get a little hectic with people going in

and out. Um there'll be a fence pretty

much up along the frontages of both her

street and Cameron Street as part of

this new development. Uh and all of the

vehicular access will come in off 12th

Street. Uh so it will really simplify uh

vehicular circulation to the site which

will make things safer for everybody. In

addition um they're going to improve and

widen the sidewalks along her and

Cameron Street. Um and that's not just

important from a general perspective but

uh because um Certa's new facility will

be located just to the south along

Cameron Street. people will be walking

along along Cameron Street uh to that

facility because there will be a

transfer point um at that building um

for certainly the the near-term and

maybe uh into the longer into the

future. Uh so it will be necessary to

have these um pedestrian improvements as

part of the overall project. Uh again,

the um condition of the site, the

appearance of the site will be improved.

And also uh because the site is located

in the um 100red-year flood plane, uh

the applicants are working um with FEMA

to on a letter of map revision uh

document to um essentially revise the

base flood elevation at this site and to

make sure that their new construction uh

is compliant with the city's

regulations. We require uh 18 inches

above the base flood elevation uh which

is called the freeboard uh in our zoning

code. And so the proposed letter of map

provision is going to reduce the base

flood elevation about 3 ft which

significantly you know changes the

construction of the building um the uh

uh financial feasibility of the

building. You have to do a little bit

less in terms of the overall um flood

plan flood flood proofing of the

structure and the site. Um, so with that

all being said, the planning commission

uh has recommended that the city council

approved the request with the following

conditions. Uh, the applicant must

secure approval of a letter of map

provision from FEMA so the development

can proceed as proposed and must

eventually receive approval for both the

structural demolitions on site as well

as the proposed new construction. And

again, the applicants are currently in

the midst of coordination with FEMA on

that. Uh the applicant should coordinate

with the city arborist to increase the

ecological impact and tree canopy on

site by incorporating native tree

species and pollinator plants

particularly on the western edge of the

site around the storm water detention

infrastructure which can also address

localized air pollution created by the

Cameron Street Hurst Street in uh

infrastructure. Uh and the city arburous

actually uh review is actually kind of a

new uh component we are doing with our

land development plans uh because we

have them on staff and we've generally

been including it as a condition of

approval instead of just always adding

that. Uh we've incorporated their review

uh as a formal step in the process just

like we do the codes bureau or the city

engineer. Uh so there are um actual uh

comments from our city arborist on maybe

how to improve the overall site, what

types of uh tree species to use and and

things like of that nature. and I

believe that was included in your

packet. And then finally, if possible,

the planning bureau recommends removing

the southernmost vehicular access point

onto the site from North 12th Street to

clarify vehicular circulation and

eliminate a vehicular pedestrian

conflict point, which is especially

important given the proximity to

Sunshine Park. So, in the initial

proposal, there were two um vehicular

access points. Again, this is across the

street from the park, but I mean, kids

will probably be running up and down

this street. And the more we can clarify

uh where exactly vehicles will be going

on in off the site and in fact reduce

the overall number of those access

points, the uh safer it will be for all

of the people um around this area. And I

believe the applicants at the planning

commission uh uh meeting agreed to that

condition. Uh the planning commission

recommended the city council approved

the request for the following reasons.

project will expand and modernize the

city's parks mainten maintenance

infrastructure, improving the ability of

the parks and recreation department to

provide services to residents and a

facility that creates better working

conditions for staff. The project site

is a conspicuous location at the

intersection of two state routes and the

removal of dilapidated and underutilized

buildings and replacement of large

expanses of impervious surface with

vegetation and a modern city building

will bring aesthetic improvements not

only for passers by but local residents

and workers as well. And finally,

through coordination with FEMA, the

project will result in a site that is

floodplane compliant and more resistant

to future flood events in the Paxton

Creek

corridor. The only thing I'd add is the

the layout of the uh site was

coordinated with the parks department.

Uh so there's a process of uh working

with them to determine the size of the

buildings, the number of buildings, and

there's a uh the main building is a

maintenance building with the admin

attached to to it with garage doors on

both ends of the maintenance buildings

to be able to pull, you know, trucks

with trailers on through the through.

And then uh also is a uh is a storage

building associated with it and you

know, sufficient parking and material

storage.

Once I

do this,

thank you, Councilwoman

Daniels, I don't have any questions. Um,

Neil and Mr. Knight, you pretty much

explained everything that's going to

take place and I understood clearly what

you were saying. I can appreciate that

the city arborists

uh governing the tree species and

everything around the site is going to

be involved with this and also that the

services are going to be increased for

the residents. I don't think there's any

bus services in that area currently.

So, being that it's centralized right

there in the middle of uh Cameron

Street, I'm just hoping that residents

could uh get a bus, go either in the

uptown area or the opposite direction.

That would just be a really nice feature

uh to this service. But thank you uh

everyone for uh being here tonight. And

thank you. That's all I have.

Thank you very much. Um I don't really

have many questions. Um it looks like um

a good opportunity for the city. Uh I've

I've been in that building um many years

ago and it needed to be upgraded then.

So I can only imagine that um the people

working there will be happy with the

upgrades and I can see that uh city

services will improve from it. So um I

don't have any questions about this

particular part of the project. Thank

you.

Thank you. I don't have any questions.

Many that I did have have been asked and

answered. Thank you.

Council Ross. Uh thank you, Councilwoman

Daniels. Um I don't have any questions.

Um I'm just a visual person, so I wish I

could see it in color. I know we saw the

new transit, I believe, the last time,

what that that may look like. So I just

wanted to see what the new parks and

wreck building would look like or what

the finished product would look like

once it was done. And I know it's not

going to be exact, but um but other than

that, no questions. I think it's of

course a good opportunity um for us to

upgrade those um areas in the city,

especially when it comes to

transportation and then the parks and

recreation um building. Plus, it's going

to take the eyes

away right there on Cameron Street cuz

those two buildings, the gas station and

um well, restaurant, but uh it's no

longer being used. So, um, you know, I'm

always there for us to take blight away.

So, that's fine. So, thank you. Thank

you for being here tonight.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, with Cameron

Street being a uh PennDOT own and ran uh

corridor, what role will they play in

this project? There are multiple uh HOPs

that will be required, highway occupancy

permits that'll be required for it. On

this particular one, uh there there will

be two, one for the sidewalk

improvements and the same HOP will close

the existing driveways on her street. Uh

and then there will be a separate one

that uh will be in the name of CRW and

uh we're working with them. They

actually will submit that HOP and that's

just for a simple uh uh storm sewer pipe

connection to an inlet out that charges

from the storm water basin. Okay. And

the Goodwill building that's across the

street, correct?

It's it's on the same same block. Yeah.

Is it on the

uh east side of Cameron Street, but that

would be across over by the gas station?

It it'd be on the opposite side. You

have the U corner that we're talking

about and then the Rabbit Transit or the

CAT facility and then it's right next to

the CAT facility. Yep. Okay. But you you

just you were bringing up Sunshine Park

which is actually across the street or

behind across 12. Yep. Across 12. Yep.

And then um just to echo what uh Chair

Daniels was saying, it would be good to

see some kind ofou because you know just

historically the city's gotten to

similar things throughout time and it's

kind of got messy and murky. You know

they promised this, they promised that.

Some kind of memorandum of understanding

probably would benefit if that is

doable. This way we don't in the long

run get caught in any murky business. Um

that's probably that would benefit the

city a great deal. But um I really have

no other further questions than that.

Thank you all. Thank you. Y

uh thank you Councilwoman Daniels. Um so

I have two two questions. Um on 12

Street that terrain is horrible right

now and you know summer spring is

getting here and you know a lot of our

residents are going to be utilizing

Sunshine Park. Is there any plan to pave

that road back there and if so what's

the timeline on that?

There there currently uh are no plans to

uh make significant improvements as far

as height because of uh the direction

that we received from the mayor's office

not to impact Sunshine Park. So Sunshine

Park is not being impacted if not the

not the park itself, the road on 12th

Street. you coming off of her and you

turn down in there. I'm sure you've been

back there. Yeah, that is horrible back

there. And it's been like that for a

very long time. And I'm just wondering

who's are we responsible for that? Are

you guys going to pave that road? I I

would currently the plans do not call

for resurfacing, but we certainly can

take a look at that. That would be

wonderful. I think it would save some

axle bending uh potholes. Well, and I I

would imagine you probably not want to

resurface it now because that will be

construction access for all the

demolition and construction if you got

you. But I'm saying if I mean knowing

that there's nothing there, but if

that's something that they consider and

again I was just wondering if it now

that we know that it's not there, I hope

you guys can some type of way put that

in your plans. Uh the other question

that I have again um solicitor Grover

mentioned $150 million project. I think

the total was 175 if I'm not correct. if

I'm correct in the end it would come out

to 175 million right the cost estimates

yes I think they're close to 150

uh yeah for the overall project I think

it's 150 all right then I seen 175 for

like total but either way 150 million is

a lot of money um what are we looking at

any um when you put out your RFPs how

are we connecting with some of the local

businesses here in the city of

Harrisburg I uh if you recall last month

when we were for council. Mr. Bar

uh indicated that they were planning on

like a uh a mixer with the uh you know

prime contracts and local contractors to

make that introduction and uh so that

they would plan to do that. Uh yeah,

that I think that would be um a great

idea. Um, again, when we're looking at

this kind of spending in the city, um,

would definitely be able to include, uh,

some of these local businesses and and

and that will help with some jobs here,

even though they're not the prime and

you sub, you definitely can, um, extend,

you know, some of that money right here

in the city. Um, so that's something

that I will be looking for um, moving

forward and then try to stick close to

you guys when it comes to that part. But

other than that, um I think this is a

great facility that's going to be built

and it definitely will turn some uh eyes

into something very nice to look at uh

moving around in that area. So, thank

you. No more questions.

Thank you. Are there any other

just a comment? Uh, Chair Daniels, um,

Dire Knight, you had mentioned the

importance of the sidewalks and making

sure those are not only ADA compliant,

but just, you know, um, appropriate for

the project. Just a side note, while we

have our engineer in the building, we

still have older communities like up on

State Street that don't have any

sidewalks. So, you know, somehow someway

if we can, and this is just like a

sidebar, if we can somehow someway kind

of figure that out, especially up by

reservoir, we have senior citizens

literally walking in the road just to

get to their homes. No sidewalks. I

could even send you uh pictures if you

need, but something we could potentially

look at together. Um, and that's all.

Thank you.

Thank

you. Our last committee business for

this evening lies with the public works

committee. I will defer to our public

works committee chair, Councilman

Rodriguez, to lead discussion. Thank

you, Madame President. Um to begin

public works, we will be discussing

resolution 24 of 2025. Mr. Trudale, do

you mind reading resolution

2425 into the record?

Resolution 24, 2022, a resolution

authorizing the city of Harrisburg to

negotiate and enter into a professional

services agreement with Urban Engineers

Incorporated for the purpose of

providing construction inspection and

construction management services on an

asneeded basis. Thank you for that. And

I do see the city's engineer here as

well as a representative from urban

engineers. if you would like to speak

directly into the mic and state your

name and your role in the city just for

the residents at home and then just kind

of give us an overhaul of resolution

2425.

My name is Joel Sers. I'm the city

engineer. Thank you.

Hello. My name is Brian Pete. I

represent urban engineers out of our

local office here. And thank you both

for being here. Um Joe, if you'd like to

give us just an overhaul of what a

resolution

2425 encompasses. Sure. So the the city

of Harrisburg has a lot of upcoming

construction projects. Uh we have

Sycamore Street, Berry Hill Street,

Chestnut Street, and that's just uh this

year. Uh in the future, we're going to

have much larger corridors such as

Division Street, Walnut Street, uh some

work on on her street. And it's it's

also my intent um similar to Sycamore

and Barry Hill Street to continue that

program throughout the city. Just uh you

know, like you said, everywhere needs

work. So, uh I I do not want to slow

down on any of the construction. And

then on the I call it smaller side, but

still significant is we have a lot of um

utility work being done in the city and

that requires what we call a street cut

permit. And last year alone, we had over

500 of these. And this is where they

they dig up the road and that we kind of

inspect it and make sure they put it

back according to um the city

specifications. And quite frankly, we're

we're just underst staffed to do all

these larger projects, 500 smaller

projects, which is why I went forward

with a an RFP for construction

inspection

services to to help the city on an as

needed basis. So it's not a constant

constant work, but It's as needed as as

we start to get overwhelmed. I can call

on the selector firm to to kind of

assist and

um Brian and Urban Engineers put it

together a fantastic proposal and I I

have no

recommending them for selection. And

when you put the RFP out, how many um

applicants reply to that? So the it was

put out on to pen bid. I know we had at

least 40 different firms documents.

We've only we only received two

proposals. Um, but the uh the team that

Urban put together is just fantastic.

I've worked with some of them in the

past. I know a lot of them have done

work in the city in the past. I see no

issues. And for the selection, was it

you that made the selection or was that

done by It was a committee. Okay. based

on

um it was me and one other um in the

public works department. Yep. I actually

spoke with director West and Mr. Jackson

today. Um just to get a little bit of

background of it so I'm a bit familiar.

Um if our rep from urban engineers would

like to say a few words to council. Yes.

I just like to thank you for this

opportunity. Um you might you might need

to bring it a little closer. No, I just

want to say one thank you for this

opportunity here. One thing I would like

to just share is that u we decide to

assemble a large team of consultants

here. know it's not only urban

engineers. We brought five other

companies onto our firm or on our team

for this work. Uh that way we can you

know share the work with our teaming

partners. We take pride in that you know

sharing you know opportunities with

other companies and get other people

involved with this work. Um you know we

have done work in the city of Harrisburg

since 2017. We're very familiar with the

city uh the processes. We worked on the

third street multimodal project. Uh so

if you're familiar with that quarter

going up through uh the market there and

also did a lot of work uh doing

inspection and construction management

on second street. So like I said we've

done quite a bit of work in the city um

you know and hope our service will

assist. Absolutely. And with the other

entities that you brought on board do

you know the participation at all with

like MBE WBE participation? So we have

two MBE firms on board three in

consulting in the Varight and we have a

WBE firm uh JBC Associates. are located

here in the city limits. Um, and Joel

can second this. In our past agreements,

we really do try to uh increase our MBE

participation. I know in some agreements

we've been over 20%. So, that's amazing.

We take pride in that. That's amazing.

That's amazing.

Um, I have no further questions. I think

like as you said um Joel, we have a lot

of work to do and you know if we can get

great people in that know what they're

doing that can do the work appropriately

and you know really take care of the

city I think the more the better. Um is

is there are there any uh conflicts of

interest that you think may appear

between any of the other entities that

you have with the city? Do you foresee

any by chance? I'll speak first here. So

the reason we put together a large team

should there be a conflict of interest.

Any firm that might be conflicted in

that particular work would just not be

able to be involved with that particular

project. Perfect. Perfect. Awesome.

Well, I have no further questions. Thank

you both for being here. And I'll open

the floor up to council. Uh starting to

my immediate left with Councilman Jones.

Thank you, uh Council Member Rodriguez.

So yeah, my my question is similar to uh

Council Member Rodriguez when you're

looking at these other entities and I

know you say that they're Harrisburg

based. um just because they're in the

city limits. Um you know, again, I'm

always going to be an advocate to make

sure some of uh when I say local, I'm

not talking about Reading York. I'm

talking about people right here in the

city of Harrisburg. Um I'm not sure if

you um do you have a list of any of

those individuals that could potentially

um assist you um as you're moving

forward? Um, are you aware of some of

the local trade schools that some of our

young people I'm saying even down to a

gopher job, man. I'm just saying. So,

this industry has been a huge struggle

for the entire industry. We are open to

anybody that wants to apply for a job

with us. We have always have an open

application for construction inspectors

on site. We've been going to trade

schools just trying to get interest in

this industry. So, if there's an

opportunity, we definitely want to look

into that. Okay. Pay for all their

certifications, get them trained. That's

that's I think that's a great

opportunity. We have to begin to try to

make uh pathways for some of the

individuals here to get into some of

this because I know a lot of these

industries are dying. Carpenters,

electricians, all types of things. So,

um we do have some things set in place

here, not just DC Tech, but we have some

other um organizations that are working

with people right here as residents in

um Harrisburg. And I think that this

again could be another great opportunity

for us to be able to couple those

things. So if you need any assistance,

I'm readily available and try to point

you in some good directions. I would

love any information on that. Be very

helpful. All right. No problem. And for

me, that's it. Thank you, Councilman.

Councilwoman Ross. Thank you very much.

My only question was um I know you said

as a need on a needs to basis. Do you

have u maybe a rough estimate on how

many times you may need to call on urban

engineering um to help out just we like

costwise because I know it's by hourly.

I did see that in the resolution. So

just a rough estimate how much we might

be spending with the percentage.

The the contract would be on an as

needed basis and it would be dictated by

my consulting line item. So I I couldn't

exceed that budget, but I I foresee no

more than 100,000 per year for the three

years. Okay. For a total of 300,000.

Okay. Thank you for that um information.

And it's kind of like like you said

almost um I don't want to say checks and

balance but a little bit because you say

we don't have the manpower at the

moment. Actually checks and balances

would be a great uh great u description

because we have to hold the contractors

to the city standards. Correct. And

that's where urban engineerings would

come in. Okay. I think that's great.

Thank you. Um that's it for me. Awesome.

Thank you councilwoman. Madam President,

I don't think I have any questions. It's

a three-year It would be a three-year

agreement. Um, you mentioned some of the

projects. Okay, maybe one question

related to the uh projects for this

year, I guess, as soon as this is

enacted. Do you envision their

assistance um through the end of the

year at all? Yes, as soon as uh as soon

as we have their assistance, I'm going

to use them wherever we can. Okay. Thank

you. I don't have any other questions.

Thank you, Madam President. Madame Vice

President, uh, thank you for being here

tonight. I don't have any questions. Uh,

thank you for the presentation, a very

detailed proposal, and thank you for the

detailed fee schedule. So, that's it.

Thank you, Councilwoman Davis. Thank

you, Councilman

Rodriguez. Good evening, gentlemen. You

mentioned Okay. You've been working with

the city for many years. Have you ever

offered u any jobs through um MBE or

utilize any of the businesses in the

city and if so who are they?

We haven't used any uh of those entities

in the city that I'm aware of. Um you

we're kind of locked to who we bring

onto our agreement at the beginning of

the the the agreement essentially. But

there are qualified firms and there's

opportunity to bring them on our team.

We would certainly be open to that.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilwoman. Uh,

Councilwoman Daniels.

Awesome. Um, is there anything you

gentlemen would like to add before I

make a motion?

Yep. Councilwoman, yep. I just wanted to

say really quick, Mr. Siders, just thank

you for what you had said earlier about

not wanting to stop. you were saying

that um there's lots of roads in our

city that you know need to be upgraded,

fixed, sidewalks, but just thank you for

just saying that you were determined to

get that done. I think that's great.

You're welcome. There's always work to

do. Yes, there is in Harrisburg, but

we'll keep you busy, but I just

appreciate you seeing our city.

All right. And um uh before I make a

motion to add to our next legislative

session, I'd like to see if council has

any other questions, concerns, comments.

All right. Hearing none, I'd like to

make a motion to add this to our next

legislative session, which I believe

April 22nd, Madam President. Um and that

concludes the business of the public

works committee. Thank you. Thank you.

We will move forward with our meeting

agenda. Next, we have public comment.

Just a few housekeeping notes before we

begin. Please state your name and your

address for the meeting record. If you

don't feel comfortable sharing your

address, please share the vicinity in

which you live within the city. You will

have four minutes to share your

comments. We have a new uh timer that I

hope everyone um is able to see. It is

green and to assist

with being mindful of time. We're not

sure when time is up what it will sound

like, but we're going to test it out

this evening.

Okay, Mr. Truzale will operate our new

timer. I will begin to my right. Is

there anyone that would like to offer

public comment?

Hello.

Hey, I'm Mark Santanis. Run the

clock. It's my goal to not be the one to

uh have the dinger go off here. So, um

I'm Mark Santana. I live at two at 200

block of Liberty Street in downtown

Harrisburg. Um I've lived here for 25

years. I come here as a city resident as

well as the president of capital area

neighbors with our jurisdiction goes

from Fort Street to Walnut Street, Front

Street to uh Third Street. So basically

the first area map is our jurisdiction,

but I'm also here as a resident

supporting the extension into Midtown

because as although this is in the

public safety committee, I believe this

to be also an economic development uh

component. Uh I lived here in 2000 when

they first started the restaurant row. I

think the first liquor control board

exempted area started in 1999. Is that

correct, Neil?

that old. Okay. But anyway, when I moved

into town, Arugas was a boarded up

building. Like, it was dead downtown.

There was nothing going on. And when uh

Mayor Reed had started the liquor

control board exempted area, it opened

it up and allows us to police ourselves

instead of the liquor control board

commenting on policing. So, I think the

key component here is to say Harrisburg

can take care of our own. We can police

ourselves. As explained, there's many uh

citizens still can call 911. They can go

to the LCE. They have many angles to if

someone wants to act out. We don't need

the LCB in Harrisburg policing us. We

can police ourselves. Um so I would like

to support resolution 20 and the

amendment to add Midtown because I

believe Harrisburg is in crisis.

Downtown is in crisis. Anyone that opens

a bar or a restaurant or still is

hanging on with the bar or restaurant

should be commended and has a lot of

courage. We should be trying to help

them as much as we possibly can. Thank

you. Thank you. Is there anyone else to

my right?

Hello. I'm uh at Jurro 1521 North Second

Street, apartment 1. Is my timer

started? Okay. If you go over, there's a

trap door.

go down. Um, anyway, I'm I'm here also

for resolution 2020 2022 to uh approve

the map including Councilman Jones uh

amendment to extend up into Midtown. I

think my tone is basically I want to be

supportive of the businesses, the

entrepreneurs, make Harrisburg a good

place to invest and uh and I think also

the other comment you know in the

unlikely idea if there is a complaint I

do agree the concept of local control,

right? people can come here and you know

if they've got a problem we don't need

five layers of management at the state

and meetings that take whatever all

kinds of time. So for those reasons I

hope you approve it tonight and uh

appreciate your time. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else to my

right that would like to offer public

comment?

Ryan Weatherford 1100 North Third

Street. Um, shalom to my Jewish

brothers. Saw what happened to Josh

Shapiro on the news. We condemn any

anti-semitism. I'm not too sure what

happened with that one. But, uh, I think

violence reduction, gang reduction. All

my brothers over there to the right

about the liquor control board. I think

we can police ourselves. It's a lot of

homelessness out there. You know, I walk

everywhere. My girlfriend has a car cuz

she pregnant. She got a Chevy white

Malibu. Um, so, um, I say all that to

say when you walk around Harrisburg,

like I got like a 100,000 steps this

week. I work at credential as a

financial advisor. It's a lot of

shenanigans going on out there. So, I

would just ask that you know control

with all that stuff. You know, we just

got to keep Harrisburg sovereign. That's

all I would say. Your honor, that's all.

But again, Josh, what up, baby? That's

all I got to say.

Thank

you. Okay. Is there anyone else to my

right? I don't want to miss anyone.

Okay. Seeing and hearing. No one. Anyone

in the middle section?

Good evening, council. My name is John

Trainer. I'm here representing the

Harrisburg Midtown Arts Center project

on Third Street. And it's in resolution

20 is actually critical for the survival

of music venues in the city um both in

Midtown and downtown. Without it, they

wouldn't be able to function. And I

would also draw your attention to the

fact that the 2017 map was actually

continuing resolution from

2014. So in 2014, Midtown was was

included in the noise exemption and then

again and in those days you had

a three-year extension for the LCB and

then the LCB did another extension in 17

to

2019. How the map changed in

2019, we have no idea, right? Because as

somebody that would have been affected

by it. We were giving no notice of it

and we believed as did other businesses

in Midtown that we were part of that

noise exemption. So I think it might

have been an oversight when they put

that map together in 2019. They went

back to prior to

2014 because the it was a continuing

resolution from from 200 well 1999 to

2002 and then 2017 there was an

amendment to that continuing resolution

and then 19 we we have no idea what

happened there. Um so I just wanted to

bring that to your attention. It's not

just the 17 map. actually was affected

in

2014. And thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Is there anyone to my left that would

like to offer public comment?

Good evening, council president and

members of city council and members of

the public. My name is Robert Williams

and I reside in the Capitol Heights

section of Harrisburg. I appear before

you today formally to propose a new

ordinance titled police transparency and

accountability reporting ordinance. I

have brought physical copies of the

proposed ordinance this evening for the

chief of for the chair of public safety,

the president of city council, and the

city solicitor. I respectfully request

your review and consideration of this

adoption. This ordinance is designed to

establish a responsible recurrent

reporting framework of bureau for the

bureau of police regarding the use of

body warn cameras. While many residents,

including myself, recognize the value of

body warn cameras and enhancing public

trust and accountability, the value

depends on more than just having the

equipment. It depends on what we do with

the data. That's why this ordinance

calls for quarterly reports to be

submitted to the mayor, city council,

and cleat. These reports will provide

foundational information such as the

number of officers equipped with body

warn cameras, any technical issue with

the system, and once permitted through

bargaining, additional data that can

help identify trends and improve

department policies. Importantly, this

ordinance does not overstep legal or

contractual boundaries. It was drafted

to be fully compliant with act 22 of

2017, the right to know laws, the

criminal history record information act,

the juvenile act, and act 111 governing

collective bargaining with police

unions. The ordinance acknowledges that

some of the the ordinance acknowledges

that some of the most meaningful data

such as body warrant activation

compliance, non-activation reasons and

footage use and internal investigations

relates directly to officers working

conditions. As such, it does not attempt

to bypass the collective bargaining

process. This is legally cautious and

forwardlooking. It enables the city to

begin building a foundation of

transparency now while respon excuse me

while responsibly planning for deeper

data reporting once labor negotiations

will allow. It helps Harrisburg avoid

litigation or labor disputes by

proactively respecting our legal

obligations. In short, this ordinance

strikes the right balance. It advances

transparency for the community. that

respects the rights and contracts of our

officers and its long-term

accountability policym based on data and

not assumptions. I urge the council to

consider this proposal seriously and to

refer it to the appropriate committee

for further review and possible

introduction. I am happy to provide

digital copies, answers to any questions

and work with any member of this body,

the city solicitor, and to refine any

part of this ordinance. Thank you for

your time and commitment to the people

of Harrisburg. Thank you.

Thank you.

You have time.

Can I pass this off to Mr. Trudale and

he give it to you? Yes, please. Thank

you.

Oh,

I like to know.

Okay.

It looks kind of short. Okay. Is there

anyone else to my left or anyone else

present that would like to offer public

comment? I don't want to miss

anyone. Okay. Okay, seeing and hearing

no one, the time is 6:40 p.m. I will

entertain a motion to adjurnn. So move.

Is there a second? Second. Thank you. We

stand a journ.