Zoning Hearing Board Meeting - April 13th 2026

This is a monthly meeting of the

Harrisburgian Hearing Board.

This is originally scheduled in March

and and basically had be adjusted move

to the date of April 13th.

Um

I normally have a colleague with me and

when he shows up he'll be

do the introduction. From the left is

our solicitor.

Okay. And representing the city planning

organization is

>> and I need to get your name because I'm

probably get to know you very good, very

well.

>> My name is Stephanie Thompson. I'm the

new deputy director for planning.

>> And to his right is the city business.

I'll do

Okay. Um and also uh this is a uh these

are hearings. So uh testimony will be

taken under oath. Um there is a court

reporter here that is taking everything

down. Um witnesses will be sworn in

before they testify. Uh as Mr. Fips

mentioned, um he is here u by himself.

Uh and which is uh fine. it uh um he

will be acting as the hearing officer

for tonight's hearings. Um ordinarily

there is two and even just with two it

is a quorum but even in that situation

if they would split it would be denied.

So um but tonight it will be just Mr.

Fipps. So if anybody though wants to um

have it decided by two they can request

a continuance tonight and uh um to the

April meeting. we wouldn't have time,

right, to obviously advertise or

anything, right?

>> Probably

>> if I I don't know what the requirements

are for, you know, such a quick

turnaround here, but um I don't think

there'd be any additional preparation on

our behalf for moving it to the 20th.

>> Okay.

>> So, um

but uh so with that though, we'll start

with our first application. It's 2625

uh special exception application for

1100 North 17th Street. Um and I will

read in uh the exhibits uh board

exhibits.

And then

before we begin though, I'll have uh Mr.

Knight uh sworn in. And Mr. Knight, once

you're sworn in, you'll be sworn in for

all the hearings tonight. Okay. All

right. You could swear them in, please.

I do.

>> Yeah. Once I read in the uh um exhibit.

So we have B1 the proof of publication.

Um this was for obviously the March uh

hearing. Then B2 is the letter uh sent

from the planning director to the

applicant notifying of the uh March

hearing. B3 is a hearing notice posted

on the property. B4 is the application

packet with the attached narrative. B5

is a neighborhood petition in support of

the application. B6 or agreements uh for

the sale of the property uh to

applicant. The third page of that uh

exhibit though seems to be the more

recent one which includes um

more than one property that uh is to be

included for the uh parking. Um B7 is

the deed to the properties at 1100 North

17th Street, 1616 Hurst Street, 1625

uh Cumberland Street, identifying the

seller as the current owner of the

property. Uh that uh owner also signed

the application in in addition to the

applicant that is here today. Uh B8 the

planning bureau case report. B9 uh city

of Harrisburg planning commission

resolution. B10 is the uh uh email of

continuance submitted by the applicant

to tonight's meeting since it did not

occur in March. And B11 is the proof of

publication for tonight's meeting. It's

published uh March 29 and April 5.

Um, why don't we swear in the applicant

and then we'll turn it over to Mr.

Knight.

>> I do.

>> My first name is Abdul. Abd Du L. Last

name Larry. L A R R Y.

>> You're welcome.

>> Okay. Mr. Larry, what what is your

position? Is it with uh how do you

pronounce the

>> Mohein?

>> Okay. And

>> I'm the chairman.

>> Chairman.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

Okay. All right. Mr. Knight.

>> Okay. Um so the uh application for case

number 2625. Uh the board may recall

this from late in 2025. Um basically the

exact same application was filed at that

time. Uh the proposal is to convert the

property at 1100 North 17th Street uh to

a place of worship use. Um the uh

accessory parking that's um required for

that use uh can be provided at uh the

associated parcels at 1616 her street

and 1625 Cumberland Street. Uh back in

uh late 2025, um uh there was uh the

applicant was lacking legal standing for

those uh uh latter two properties uh

1616 Her Street and 1625 Cumberland

Street. Uh then there was some

miscommunication regarding the November

meeting. So uh at that time uh the board

did deny the application. Um but uh the

applicant after coordination with the

applicant uh confirming they still

wanted to move forward, they resubmitted

uh and so that is um the application

that's here before uh the board today.

Basically the exact same um application

is from uh late 2025. Uh the project

itself um involves the uh

reestablishment of a or the

establishment of a place of worship use

at 1100 North 17th Street. Uh it is a

commercial building. Um, it has a

history of uh past commercial uses, the

most recent of which uh was a child care

center use. Um, and I believe that was

operating up until about 2019 or 2020.

Um, and uh, since that time, the

property has been vacant. Uh, so it's

got a long-standing vacancy. Um and uh

the request for relief is a special

exception which is required for place of

worship uses in the RM zoning district

per section 7- uh 305.7 of the zoning

code. Um the planning bureau is largely

supportive of the uh proposal. Um it'd

be uh good to have the building

reactivated uh and become um you know a

useful contributing part of the

neighborhood. Um and uh as previously

noted um the applicant does have the

required off- streetet parking at the

two adjacent lots at 1616 Hurst Street

and 1625 CL Street. Based on the

information in their application, the

applicants uh would require uh 19

parking spaces and they do have 20

parking spaces across those two lots. Uh

so with all that being said, the

planning commission has recommended that

the zoning hearing board approve the

request with the following conditions. A

new wall signage as proposed to the

applicant will be limited to four square

feet and must otherwise be in

conformance with the applicable zoning

regulations or a separate zoning relief

application will need to be approved by

the zoning hearing board. Uh the

planning commission recommends the

zoning hearing board approved the

request for the following reasons. The

property has experienced an extended

period of vacancy over seven years and

previously accommodated a different

non-conforming use, a child care center

on site. As such, there is support for

the allowance of non-conforming use so

that the building can be actively

occupied. Uh the the project the

proposed use is a fairly low inensity

use which should be compatible with the

surrounding residential neighborhood and

should not create adverse impacts for

the residents. And finally, the

applicant is committed to building and

site improvements that will improve the

aesthetics of the properties, ensure

their compatibility with the surrounding

neighborhood, and increase their

conformance with the zoning code.

>> Okay. Well, we've had uh Mr. Hobs show

up, so Mr. Larry, if you want him to

also consider your application instead

of just

uh Mr. Fipps, is that okay with you?

This was it was an application that had

been presented uh previously to the

board and Mr. Hobbs was here you know

for that and

I think the board also recalls it just

the only thing that was missing was

right that the the parking that uh

wasn't included in the agreement of sale

that that type of thing. So if if if

it's fine with you they can both

consider it um or if you just want Mr.

Fipp since he was here from the

beginning. Okay. All right. Um

Okay. Well, now we'll move to Go ahead.

You can ask applicant to

>> only question I had again.

>> Well, yeah. Ask applicant if you want to

say anything in in support of the

application. Now, uh testify in support

of that before any questions by the

board members.

All I have to say is that you know it's

a marathon for us because it's been more

than a year where we we're trying to you

know attend the property but because of

some glitches

you know we're not able to meet you know

the requirement on time as we supposed

to buy. I think now is the time that we

hope that we finalize everything today

and we keep on moving. Thank you.

So, um I only have one question because

I heard a year ago and again it was a

paperwork, but in the recap of this case

I I see a phrase uh for the two other

two properties 1616

and 1625 and we and by those we're using

those properties to basically meet the

requirement for parking. There's a set

about contingent upon the

do you own those properties? Yes or no?

It's binary question.

>> Yes, we do.

>> Because if you don't know or if it's

still in contingency.

>> No. No, we do.

Thank you.

>> You're welcome.

>> Good evening. So I guess just following

up and then I guess it's safe to say

that with that requirement then they

pass

>> of the the parking concerns that were

the the issue the last time you

presented in front of us.

>> Okay.

>> Yep.

>> And well is is there anybody here from

the public that wishes to speak on this

application?

>> Okay. Um what I would though recommend

as another condition in addition to Mr.

nights is that um that is the agreement,

right? That that that's the um that

one-page agreement that includes the

properties 1100 North North 7th Street,

1616 Hurst Street, 1625 Cumberland

Street, and the agreement also includes

1621 Cumberland Street. That is uh the

agreement that's in effect right now.

Correct.

>> That's correct.

>> Okay. Um, and if it's approved by the

board here tonight, that's when you will

complete though the negotiations for the

price and all that. Is that

>> That's correct.

>> Okay. And that's that does have we've

had plenty of developers come in here

and actually have their agreements

contingent on whether, you know, it's

approved. They're equitable owners of

the property. Okay. So, um, I would

though have as a condition that um, um,

applicant uh complete u the sale of the

properties

um uh the four properties that I just

stated and the property is transferred

to um applicant um as part of the

approval of this board

and you don't have to restate it you can

say that you take what I said as the

second condition and we take what Mr.

Knight said his first condition.

So if somebody wants, you know, make a

motion subject to the two conditions,

that'll work.

>> So I'll make a motion that based off the

condition set by the planning commission

of the wall signage and second by our

solicitor requiring

contingency

sale being completed. Um I make a motion

that for

the request.

>> So moved.

>> Okay. Motion made and seconded. All in

favor?

>> I.

>> Okay. Approve. And you will get uh a

decision within 45 days just you know

describing the decision and the

conditions. Okay.

>> All right. Thank you.

>> All right.

Okay.

And next we have application 2629

which is 514 Emerald Street

Variance and special exception

application.

Uh the applicant is Harrisburg Rents LLC

uh by Robert Sches Jr. Right. Okay.

Uh I will read in uh the exhibits and

then we'll follow the same procedure.

Turn it over to Mr. Knight.

So we have B1 is the proof of

publication for the March meeting. B2

the letter sent from uh the planning

director to applicant notifying of the

March hearing. B3 the hearing notice

posted on the property. B4, notification

letter sent to sent to the neighbors and

certificate of mailing. B5, the

application packet uh with photos of the

exterior of the property and nearby

properties and the floor plans. B6 is

the deed and the uh realy transfer

statement establishing applicant

standing to pursue the uh requested

zoning relief. B7, the durable power of

attorney from the owner of the property,

naming applicant as POA to handle all

affairs with the property. B8, planning

bureau case report. B9, city of

Harrisburg planning commission

resolution. Uh B10, the uh request for

the continuence from the March meeting

to tonight's meeting. And B1 is the

proof of publication for tonight's

meeting published on March 29 and April

5

um in the Patriot News. So with that we

have B1 through B1

and then Mr. Knight

you can provide a background. Go ahead.

>> Yep. Sure. Uh so the case for 2629

um is uh an after the fact application

as will be the following case and then

five on next uh week's uh agenda. Um and

this is due to the uh it essentially uh

traces back to the um revision and

adoption of a new flood plane zoning

certificate application uh which is a

document the city has had for a very

long time. Um but in the past had uh

been reviewed solely by the codes

bureau. Uh and this is a document that

is submitted upon the transfer of

properties. And so it basically informs

a new property owner of um you know what

an allowable use is or uh or a new

property owner conveys to the city what

they're going to be doing. Um and as

noted in the past, it was largely

handled by the codes bureau. Um however

there is information uh managed by and

under the purview of the planning bureau

uh that is often pertinent to a

purchaser um zoning which is kind of why

we're here but also historic district

and flood plane regulations as well. Um

and so uh we adopted um a new document

and a new process in April of last year

and uh as part of that um when this

property and the others uh that uh are

are being brought uh before the board

for similar reasons um were submitted

through that process. Uh I went back and

looked through the city's records and

noted that this had been converted at

some time in the past after the adoption

of the current zoning code. So this is

not something where I'd go back before

the current zoning code um to do. And so

uh in coordination with the applicant um

and to ensure that uh you know the

integrity of the um zoning relief

process and to ensure that we're um

applying our regulations fairly and

consistently across the board uh under

the current zoning regulations. Uh we

did ask the applicant to bring these

cases uh before uh the planning

commission, the zoning hearing board for

review. Um, I do want to make it clear

that in all of these cases, uh, the

applicants did coordinate, uh,

previously, whether it was as far back

as 2014 or 2016, um, with the codes

bureau. Uh, they submitted building

permit applications, they did get for

the most part ongoing, um, rental

inspections on an annual basis. So, the

applicants did work in good faith. they

just had um through a kind of a gap in

the uh permitting review process between

the codes bureau and the planning bureau

uh converted these without the necessary

zoning relief oversight. So I do want to

provide that background because I think

it is relevant to uh how we got here and

why all seven of these cases are being

brought uh by this applicant um at this

month's zoning hearing board meetings.

Um, so and we do we did want to make

sure we're uh reviewing this as we would

if this were brought to us back then um

under this. So this is not trying to

like look back and kind of um you know

find a workaround. It's are the

conditions um uh justifiable. With that

being said, um the applicant has

converted the uh single family dwelling

into a two-unit multif family dwelling

which requires zoning hearing board

approval of special exceptions for the

proposed use and relief from off-

streetet parking requirements per

section 7-305.7

and 7-327.6

of the zoning code respectively and

variances for relief from the density

regulations and specific criteria in

sections 7-307.3

and 7-309.2V

of the zoning code respectively. Um and

uh for this uh application, as for um

most of the others, uh the applicant

purchased these properties uh off of a

repository sale. Um and so they were

generally vacant, uh had issues that

also uh resulted in fairly long uh

histories of condemnations, uh maybe

structural issues. Um and so uh this

long vacancy and this history of um

violations that did necessitate uh more

uh investment in the properties than

would have been required if say they

were just buying a property that

somebody had been living in and flipping

it uh do in our in the planning bureau's

opinion provide justification uh for the

requested addition of one uh unit beyond

what would be permitted by right at this

property. um you know oftent times um

when you're buying off a repository

that's kind of can tend to be a

lastditch effort to uh preserve a

building and to make sure it it stays up

and standing and and a contributing part

of the streetscape. Um and so uh this is

not a situation where again a property

was purchased from a homeowner and then

somebody's looking to flip it into

multiple units um purely for financial

reasons. There is definitely a

justification uh based on the amount of

investment that was necessary to uh

retain this building. Um and with that

being said, the planning commission uh

recommended the zoning hearing board

approved the request with the following

conditions. Uh if granted approval to

move forward with the project as

proposed, the applicant shall allow the

codes bureau to perform a comprehensive

inspection to identify any outstanding

code violations and will receive

approval for all necessary city permits

prior to receiving a certificate of

occupancy. Uh this should include the

detached garage at the rear of the

property if the applicant intends on

using that to provide the required off-

streetet parking which should be done as

eventual redevelopment of the adjacent

vacant lots may make on street parking

more difficult. Uh so a couple of things

to to clarify there. Um, we do feel that

the uh history of rental inspections

conducted by the codes bureau uh do uh

meet the uh spirit of the first part of

that condition that uh to make sure the

building's habitable, that the work has

been done um appropriately. Uh and then

with respect to the detached garage at

the rear of the property, um during my

site visit, it was um unclear whether

that was still being used um due to the

fact there's vacant lots on the street.

the residents may have just been parking

on the street or something. Um, but the

applicants did provide um photographic

evidence that the uh garage can

accommodate two vehicles. Um, so the

applicants can actually uh provide the

two required off- street parking uh

units on site on this property. So, we

consider uh that the uh off- streetet

parking requirements are met for this

property. Uh, the Harrisburg Planning

Commission recommends the zoning hearing

board approve the request for the

following reasons. The property had a

history of unpermitted and uninspected

work and condemnation condemnations for

various building code deficiencies over

the 20 years prior to the applicant's

ownership requiring more investment than

would be viable for rehabilitation as a

single family dwelling. As such, there

is justification for the allowance of an

additional unit than would be permitted

by Wright. Uh the project reconstructed

a blighting influence and attractive

nuisance into units that will contribute

to the housing inventory in the city and

the neighborhood and rehabilitated an

historically and architecturally

significant building. And finally,

existing conditions of the property and

its context within the neighborhood,

specifically the provision of off-

streetet parking at the rear of the lot

and the row of vacant parcels directly

to the west mean the proposed increase

in residential residential density

should have a limited impact on the

surrounding community.

>> Okay.

If you can swear in the applicant,

please.

>> I do.

>> Robert Shooks Jr.

Robert R O B E R T S H O K E S Jr.

Thank you.

>> Okay. And Mr. shows. Uh, what's your

position with Harrisburg Rents?

>> I am the sole member of Harrisburg Rents

LLC.

>> Okay.

>> Okay, Mr. Schultz, uh, your opportunity

then to present

anything in favor of your application

before any questions are asked.

>> I believe that Mr. Knight presented the

case uh, pretty thoroughly. I I will

simply say or to add on to that that

during the

probably the the years 2008

through 2018

we a similar process here with the the

co department on 90 different buildings

that's 90 for a total of 120 units. Now

we've since begun the process of

divesting from that as a result of co

difficulties and that kind of thing.

However, uh, of those 90, um, Mr. Knight

reviewed them and found seven that

didn't meet qualifications that were

required. And so, we felt like that was

a reasonable number that we would go

ahead and tried to maintain the

integrity of this process. And so,

that's that's why we're here. I believe

he he explained it adequately as to how

we got here. It's just a bureaucratic

snafu as it were.

>> Okay. Go ahead.

Good evening, Mr. Schultz. Um, so you

know, we usually, this is the usual

circumstance, this type of uh

application. Um, I just did have one

question or if you could explain or give

some insight to what was mentioned about

um the need for the additional unit, the

one additional unit over what would

usually be allowed based on um the

guidelines. um you know from a financial

perspective if you could just share

insights on what you were facing or what

was part of that analysis or valuation

that you did specifically for this

particular property.

>> Absolutely. Uh the process here is

typically um when we purchase a a

property we're not coming out of pocket

cash to to buy these. I'm actually

borrowing money from someone else who is

a hard money lenders. And this is money

that exists outside of the state where

at least for our each of our cases it

was um then we are also borrowing the

money to renovate this property and we

have to be able to demonstrate to these

folks that that when we renovate it they

will then cash flow to the point that I

can I can then refinance it with

long-term permanent financing which is

local here. In this particular case I

think it's now Jonestown Bank and Trust.

Um, and so that has to without without

the the additional unit, they would it

would never have we would never have

been able to get to the point to where

we could could demonstrate that cash

flow. And so we would find it quite

difficult to be able to do that. And at

90 properties, you might imagine that's

there's a lot of money that's involved

in there. It's not my money, it's

somebody else's money. I just happen to

be good at managing their money. So

that's why we were able to do that many.

Got you. Thank you for that information.

Um, just a couple other things. So, I'm

assuming that uh this is just going to

be traditional uh I guess long-term

leases for these units.

>> Yes. Yes, it's it's been functioning now

for uh eight years. I believe it is

asis. Uh they are typical one-year

leases with with uh

we will turn them over. The the leases

typically convert to a month-to-month

lease after the period of one year,

unless of course we resign, and we

always do because everybody wants to

know that they they what their budget is

like for the following year whenever

they can, and it doesn't make any

difference to us.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> I want to follow up with you your

compliment lease.

>> So, it's initially a one-year lease.

Yes.

>> And is there language in at least that

convert automatically to uh to monthto

month at the end?

>> Correct.

>> It's inside the lease.

>> Correct.

>> Second question. Um

since these are going to be apartments,

what what's your price point on which

>> I don't know that I have those numbers

right in front of me. However, I'm going

to say that they're in the range.

They're one is a twobedroom, one bath.

The other one is a threebedroom, one

bath and and I believe that they are

$1,100 and $1,200 a month currently.

They weren't at that at that time, but

currently in in that range.

>> So fair market value. Yes.

>> Um,

forgive me. I actually went past your

places. I was up there this weekend. No

problem.

>> Tennessee doing it. Um, anything comes

from me, I I won't look at it.

>> When was those buildings last occupied?

>> They're currently occupied. Well, the

the one that we have is currently

occupied. Both.

>> We do we don't own both sides,

unfortunately. The one on the right is

in particularly bad shape. It uh it was

condemned for quite a while. Uh tried to

acquire it a few times from the past

owner. He didn't want to let it go. I'm

not sure why. I assumed that maybe he

had had some money that was placed

against this and this has been kind of a

problem uh for Harrisburg at large. I'll

go ahead and expand on that if you don't

mind. Um so that you know um often times

what happens we'll have people that are

that will invest in Harrisburg or this

type of market from outside say New York

or Baltimore etc. Uh under the lure of

it's it's an easy buy. it's only $1,000

off of the the tax sale or something

along those lines. Uh but then they're

going to go out and put a bunch of money

off off of that and use that to get as a

guarantee for some other funding from

somebody else. And so it might then sit

there and do nothing because it has no

more it's already served its purpose and

its value to them. Uh, and so it it

might it might be there for a while

until such time as the city comes back

and says or the county does and says pay

your taxes or or fix the place or lose

it.

>> Next question is you have a garage in

the back.

>> Yes.

>> That you would that use that to satisfy

any type of parking requirements

>> or is it conditional?

uh that the garage does does satisfy

parking requirements in its current

condition. That said, its current

condition as I went out there this about

two weeks ago was less than satisfactory

to me just physically. It's it's it's

not attractive. There are there there

are two windows that are missing and the

person door has been removed. uh for a

while there when we had some tenants

there that didn't have cars, it got used

for a dumping ground for anybody else

who, you know, in the neighborhood

needed something they had to get rid of.

And so we found that to be a problem.

It's vandalism has been a problem there.

>> And with those two houses there, there's

a previous size lot there, four houses

that burnt down about 14 14 15 years

ago.

That's not going to you you would not

use those slots because it was said in

one of the pres

here that you could use that to satisfy

any type of

>> uh I I wouldn't I wouldn't presume to be

parking on someone else's property. I

wouldn't allow that.

>> That's all we have. Thank you.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Okay. Uh anybody here from the public uh

with regard to this application? Um you

can go up to the uh microphone and offer

any comments.

Okay. Anything from the city, Miss

Cameron?

Okay. You guys want to take a break or

or

Okay.

Yeah,

>> there were conditions.

>> Yeah, he went through the the

conditions. So, you can just say

whatever the planning commission right

there conditions. Yep.

>> Right. I make a motion uh to approve

application 2629 with conditions set

forth by the planning commission.

Okay.

>> I second.

>> Okay. Motion made and seconded. Uh, all

in favor?

>> I.

>> Okay. So, it's approved.

>> So, Mr. Shes, I know you're here for the

next one, but that one is approved and

within 45 days, we'll get the decision

to you. Um, and then we'll move on. Uh,

also, Mr. Shokes, you were sworn in for

2629. And is it okay that we use that

that you're still sworn in for

application 2630? Yes sir.

>> Okay.

>> 2630 is 1923 State Street. Um it is uh

for variance in special exception.

Um

I would take it probably similar to this

past application that we had. Um I will

read in the exhibits and then we will uh

turn it over to Mr. Knight. So we have

B1 proof of publication for the March

meeting. B2 letter sent from uh the

planning director uh to the applicant

notifying of uh the March meeting. B3

hearing notice posted on the property.

B4 notification letter sent to the

neighbors uh and certificate of mailing.

B5

application packet with photos of the

exterior of the property and nearby

property properties and the floor plans.

B6 is the deed and realy transfer

statement establishing applicants

standing to pursue the requested zoning

relief. B7 planning bureau case report.

B8 city of Harrisburg planning

commission resolution. B9 request for

continuence to tonight's meeting. And

B10 the proof of publication for

tonight's meeting uh published March 29

and April 5 uh in the Patriot news. So

we have B1 through B10 and then with

that Mr. Knight.

>> Yep. Uh so yeah the um uh background of

2630 here uh again the same kind of

caveats apply uh in this case uh

regarding the applicant's purchase uh

when the work happened and uh the um

length of tenency of the existing

residents or the existing units on site

and uh the record of uh building permits

having been filed and rental inspections

uh having been uh uh achieved at a uh

consistent basis uh since that time. Um

in this case, the uh property itself has

um some different characteristics than

the last property. Uh the city's records

are a little bit unclear uh but it

appears that there was either one or two

units operating uh uh residential units

uh on site uh at one point in the past

and the first floor uh was a commercial

space uh Hidilia's uh place I believe.

uh not quite sure what the nature of

that business was, but if you look far

enough back in Google Streets view, you

can see uh the sign painted in the

storefront window on the first floor um

there. So, uh the property um is was not

a single family dwelling and therefore

did not require variance from that

aspect of the specific criteria in the

zoning code. Um however it does still

require the um because uh the uh

business use was v abandoned and not uh

restarted and again due to the ambiguity

regarding the exact number of units on

site uh we did treat this as though the

property had reverted back to the um

allowances of the underlying zoning

district and therefore uh the property

required uh two special exceptions. one

for the establishment of a multif family

dwelling and one for relief from the

off- street parking requirements per

section 7-305.7

and 7-327.6

the zoning code respectively and a

variance for relief from the density

regulations in section 7-307.3

of the zoning code. Um so again this uh

property was you know functioning not as

a single family dwelling of uh maybe a

mixeduse maybe multif family dwelling uh

at some point in the past but uh again

the applicants uh took over the property

um made investments uh into the building

and converted that uh former commercial

space into a residential uh unit. um and

has been renting it uh seemingly fairly

consistently uh since the initial

purchase and conversion uh and the work

that was done on site. Um the one area

where I think this uh deviates uh more

so than the uh previous application is

that the uh three units require four

off- streetet parking spaces and not uh

just two uh as in the last case with two

units. Um and so in evaluating the

context of the property within the

neighborhood against uh that regulation

of the zoning code, we do not know the

property is a corner lot uh and

therefore has uh frontage along uh both

State Street and Lind Street to the

side. Um I believe there's uh we confirm

that there is space for at least two

spaces uh maybe three along the uh Lind

Street side of the property. Um and then

we also note that the property is a uh

block north of um Reservoir Park. Uh and

if you've been to that area, of

Reservoir Park, um there are properties

just on one side, then there's the park

on the other side. And while the parking

situation is kind of a bit fluid up

there in that area, um people do park

along the Park Street side of the

street. Uh and there is definitely

sufficient uh parking along that uh

frontage of Park Street. So there is

nearby parking uh if indeed there uh is

a requirement um based on the demands of

the tenants of the building and uh any

of their guests. Um and so while that is

a more intensive relief uh request than

the last uh case, we do believe uh that

uh there is sufficient uh parking on

site or sufficient public parking in the

surrounding uh blocks uh to meet the

needs uh of tenants of the to meet the

needs of the zoning code. Um so and

again uh the property itself is a bit

different than the last one. Not a

single family conversion. It's just a uh

conversion of we'll just say a not

single family dwelling uh into uh the

three units. So uh the specific criteria

does not uh apply to this property. Uh

with that being said, the planning

commission recommends the zoning hearing

board approve uh the request with the

following condition. if granted zoning

approval to move forward with the

project as proposed, the applicant shall

allow the codes bureau to perform a

comprehensive inspection to identify any

outstanding code violations. Uh I do

note that when we did a site visit on

February 23rd, there was an eviction

notice posted to the front door. Um and

I'm I was unsure of what that eviction

was based on. Um and we'll receive

approval for all necessary city permits

prior to receiving a certificate of

occupancy. Um and as with the last case,

um we do consider uh the uh regular

rental inspections to be meeting the

spirit of that condition. Um the

planning commission recommends the

zoning hearing board approved the

request for the following reasons. While

the circumstances surrounding the

conversion indicate a significant

disconnect between the existing

conditions and presumed reuse

allowances, it appears that property the

property may have been functioning as a

two-unit multif family dwelling with a

former owner occupying one of the units

and that's proposal for expansion to

three units may have only required three

special exceptions as opposed to a

variance and two special exceptions. In

contrast to other such conversions, the

structure itself is large enough for a

buyight conversion to three units, thus

reducing the amount and intensity of

zoning relief and providing some

justification for the current request.

And finally, as a corner lot, the

property has enough frontage along both

State and Lind Streets to reasonably

accommodate the four off- streetet

parking spaces required for the use.

There is also significant on street

parking located along Reservoir Park, a

block to the south.

>> Before we go to applicant, I know Mr.

you mentioned with the

it

qualifies for a buy right to three units

>> and that and that in the specific

criteria right it mentions the size if

it was a dwelling single family dwelling

>> correct

>> it would meet that anyway yes 2500 it's

bigger than 2500 the structure

>> uh yes correct

>> all right uh Mr. Shokes,

your turn.

>> When we first acquired the property,

when I first required the property, I

like saying we, um,

my recollection is that the the first

floor was being had been used as a um a

hair salon. I I seem to recall uh

removing some hair salon sinks that that

kind of thing. uh which had a

passageway. It had uh a front front half

of it was being used for hair salon and

then the back half had a passageway that

was primarily to to another room in the

rear, another large large area in the

rear that was being used primarily for

storage and that kind of thing. It

lended itself easily for partition wall

between the front and rear uh fire

blocking, that type of thing. uh in

order to convert the front half into a a

one-bedroom, one bath apartment and the

rear into a one-bedroom, one bath

apartment. Now, the second and third

floor configuration remained unchanged

from from our standpoint. It remains

exactly the same the way we found it

with the exception of replacing all

plumbing fixtures, plumbing drainage

lines, electrical, and and that kind of

thing, and adding uh gas furnaces uh

into each unit. So with with the

exception that it it was obvious to us

that someone was operating a business

there and they were living on the second

and third floor. Uh and so we converted

the first floor to two two units instead

of just the one. Um I don't know that

that there's anything else that I can

can add to it other than um the eviction

notice you uh you mentioned was uh

simply a standard eviction notice for

non-payment and has since been leased up

again.

>> Okay. board members.

>> So,

I should have asked this the last time

since you you're the owner of both.

>> You're you want to convert this to four

units instead of three. If if you leave

it at three,

>> it's been converted to three.

>> It's an effect case like the last one

where it's already been in this

configuration for for about 10 years.

>> Okay. So, you don't have there's no

special exception for density.

>> Uh there there's a varian

and I would note that again the there's

a bit of an ambiguity about the number

of residential units that were on site

in the past and were there two units in

the past and they're placing three. uh

that might be considered a special

exception because it would be an

expansion or an increase of an existing

non-conforming aspect of the uh

property. So if there were two units, it

would be a special exception instead of

a variance for that aspect.

>> And the parking requirement, you would

use Lynch Street to satisfy that instead

street

parking is a premium. I have found I

have found that our tenants typically

will park on State Street if there's a

space available. Uh if someone's not

already there because that's the premium

get in and get out and go uh kind of

kind of spot and everyone else is right

down there down Lind Street and if it

happens to be street parking then

everyone's out either on street uh state

street or as uh Mr. Knight stated uh

down by the reservoir park.

My last myical financial question I say

why convert but um you know price over

anything else you for what you put into

it this is how you're going to recoup

your recouping your investment bank

making this a multi-unit

>> Yes sir our our intent was to acquire

basically the worst of the worst

buildings that we could find uh and

bring them back to life and then operate

that as rental properties for an

extended period of time. And so we

we approached almost every building that

way. Now we didn't we didn't get

approval from the codes department to

conver on the vast majority to convert

to uh multi-unit. In this particular

case, we did and so that's what we did.

>> Your rent your rent structure is going

to be the same fair market value.

>> Yes, sir. Absolutely.

That's all I have. Thank you.

>> I think you pretty much covered my

questions. Um, but I just want to ask so

like with the last one is just

traditional or sorry, long-term leases

um for this property.

>> Yes, sir. The same. They're all uh

Pennsylvania Association of Realtors

leases.

>> Got produced by them, not by me.

>> That's all I have. I've got one more

question

for the um

their oneyear leases with the automatic

conversion. Have you looked at not

putting conversion clause in because

again one year and if they don't they're

still there it'll be extended another

year not one month.

It's the way the Pennsylvania

Association of Realtors

presented it and we have it. We've made

no changes to it or at least minimal as

as we can. Uh I don't I don't know why

that that was a thing at some point in

time in the past. Um I have found as a

practicality

that it doesn't matter whether it's a

one-year lease or it's monthtomonth or

it's 15 months into into it. If someone

doesn't want to be there, I don't really

want to try to force them to be there.

They're not going to treat the property

properly. That it's nothing is going to

be to work out well for anyone involved

in that situation. So, any tenant that's

ever come to me and said, "I need to

go." I said, "Leave it the way you found

it. We're all good."

>> Exactly.

>> Thank you.

And how long have

uh how long has it operated as a

three-unit property? Like when did you

do the conversion? How how long ago was

that?

>> My recollection is 2015 to 2016. I

believe it started uh leasing in 2016.

So it's it's approximately 10 years,

nine years.

>> And when you purchased it, was it a

vacant property?

>> Yes, sir.

>> And had violations like that? Okay.

>> All right. Anything more for applicant?

Okay. Anybody from the public?

Feel free to come on up and introduce

yourself in and just state your name.

>> Big one.

>> The big one. Make sure that it is on.

>> I can talk loud enough.

My name is

>> Okay. Just state your name and then

we'll swear you in.

>> Okay. My name is Kathy Carmen.

Okay. And what's your address?

>> 1931 State Street and I own 401 403 Lind

Street.

>> Okay. Where you in?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. Keith, go ahead.

>> Okay. First, I wanted to know this place

has not been vacant for any time that

I've been living on State Street for

50ome years.

>> Okay.

>> And I think maybe before you purchased

it, the man snuck in four apartments

until he got caught.

So now I see you want to put in three

apartments or two?

>> What? What is it? Three?

>> No, I'm asking. Oh, the apartment the

apartment it's it's a three-unit

building has been since we renovated it.

>> I purchased it vacant.

>> Cuz the man that previously owned it

lived at 1925 State Street.

>> So he was one of the owners. So that's

how I know

I don't agree with putting in three

three floors of apartments. I worry

about fires.

people getting out of the third floor.

What do you do? Jump out a window

because I've seen these places get

converted and there's no fire escapes

until something happens to somebody.

>> That would be something that would be

part of the coach requirement if it's a

multi-unit

multiflo apartment. I don't

>> Well, I I don't want to speak for the

codes bureau. I'm not um entirely

familiar, but I do believe outside of a

um exterior fire escape, you can have

two uh stairways interior, and I'm not

sure if the property has that off the

top of my head, but you can also

sprinkler a property. That's a way uh to

provide the required uh fire safety and

meet fire code.

>> I I can address that directly. Uh two of

the units are on the first floor.

The front unit has two entrances and or

two entrance exit. The rear unit has one

in and one out. The upstairs apartment,

which is the apartment C, the third

that's uh there and was there

pre-existing, has two entrances, exits,

and it is no different than any other

three-story building. Whether you want

to call it a second and third floor

apartment or

you want to call it a single family

residence. If you're on the second

floor, you're going to go out the rear

deck and you're going to walk down the

deck stairs. Unless that's on fire, in

which case you're going to come down the

main stairs, which you come out the side

of the building. And if not, then you're

going to jump out of the window on the

second floor. You're certainly not going

to go climb up to the third floor to

jump out there any more than you would

any other residence.

>> You because the first floor used to be

just one apartment. There was a

storefront.

The gentleman from years ago, it was a

storefront. He lived in the back of

that. There was not two apartments

on the first floor.

>> Right. Okay.

>> As previously stated.

>> Okay.

>> And

then when you most renters have more

than one vehicle.

>> Most tenants.

>> Yes. Most tenants have more than one

vehicle. And State Street is a premium

to place to park. You know, if you can

get it, if you get home at a decent

hour,

they keep saying there's plenty of

parking in these spaces, but that's cuz

people are at work during the day.

It's at night when I come home and I got

to park a block away to get my groceries

in.

And then we have to deal with, okay,

Lynn Street,

there's a bar on that corner.

Yes, there's a park right there for

parking, but you've got to walk down

Lynn Street to get to State.

I don't want to be walking 10 11:00 at

night

from Reservoir Park.

So, not only do we have Jazz Land, we

have the other bar up the street.

There's two auto mechanic places

on each side, Walnut and State. They

park their vehicles out there.

So that's why I don't agree with always

saying there's plenty of parking because

there's not.

>> Okay. All right. Thank you.

>> Yeah, I think that's it.

>> Okay. Thank you. Anything from the city?

>> Okay. Um, anything else, Mr. Knight?

Response to that or

>> uh No. Um, you know, I've been out on

the weekends and there's parking. I

can't speak to week nights. I guess I

haven't been up there um at the subject

property to review that, but um, you

know, I think there are one at least it

sounds like the first floor units are

both one-bedroom. Um, so I think it's

likely that any tenant would have one

vehicle and not multiple vehicles. I

don't know about like the second and

third floor unit. Um but uh you know we

would think that they would have at most

one vehicle for a one-bedroom unit.

>> Okay, Mr. Shokes, anything else before

they uh board considers?

>> No, thank you. I think that's all. Thank

you. I appreciate your time.

>> Great. You guys want to take a short

break?

>> Yeah,

>> we will recess for a bit. We will be

right back.

She doesn't

motion with regard to application 2630.

>> Yes. Uh but before making a motion, I

just just want to make a a statement um

just for I guess transparency and um you

know, it's definitely appreciated for

any concerns that are bought from the

public when we uh go through these

hearings, but I just wanted to address a

couple of things for understanding. Uh

number one, um when it comes to

decisions that we make, there are a

number of factors that we have to

consider. And one of them is sometimes

based on consistency, right? So if we

get applications like the one we're

hearing now, which is very similar to

numerous ones that we've uh that have

been heard since I've been part of this

board is that you know unless there I

guess extenduating circumstances, we

usually will follow the same kind of

logic in terms of our decision-m um and

as I mentioned this is a very common

request um you know within this

application for the the special

exception and uh dimensional variance

that's being requested. So, it's not

anything that's out of the norm,

especially in that State Street

corridor, which we've seen numerous uh

properties go through this type of

conversion. And then the second thing I

just wanted to mention in terms of the

concern that came up about safety as

mentioned that is a specifically a uh

codes bureau type of issue where um and

this Mr. and I kind of addressed about

addressed about getting permits and that

thing that things of that nature where

there's safety requirements and other

requirements that will come up as part

of uh codes inspections and just uh

requirements for getting certain types

of permits for work. And there are

processes that if there's ever uh a

thought or a feeling that there is a

safety concern uh where that can be

addressed with the codes bureau if you

know that ever were to come up. So, just

wanted to mention that and then from

that for I want to make a motion to

approve application 2630

um with conditions set forth by the

planning bureau.

>> Okay,

>> I second.

>> Okay, we have a motion and a second. All

in favor?

>> I

>> Okay, so with that we the decision will

be then mailed within 45 days. Okay.

All right. Thank you.

Now we have

application 2632

1923

State Street, right?

>> Oh, that's

did sound odd that I said that.

that I was on. Okay.

>> That was actually 26.

>> 2630. Yeah.

>> 2632. Oh, right. 1637 and 1637 and a

half North 3rd Street.

>> I figured there was something wrong when

the applicant stopped when I mentioned

that like it's not our turn, but yes, it

is your turn. 2632 variance and special

exception application.

Um I will read in the exhibits and then

we'll turn it over um

turn it over to Mr. Knight and then

we'll have uh after Mr. Knight we'll

have the applicants uh sworn in. So

start uh B1 proof of publication. B2 uh

letter sent from the planning director

to the applicant notifying of the March

hearing. B3 hearing notice posted on the

property. Uh B4 notification letters.

B5, application packet with attached

narrative and floor plans. B6, deed

establishing applicant standing to

pursue the requested zoning relief. B7,

planning bureau case report. B8, uh,

city of Harrisburg planning commission

resolution.

Uh, B9 is the proof of publication for

tonight's meeting. Uh, it was published

uh, March 29 and April 5 in the Patriot

News. And B10 is the request uh, for the

continuence from the March application

to tonight's

uh meeting

March uh meeting to to tonight's

meeting. With that, we got B1 through

B10.

And with that, I'll turn it over to Mr.

Knight.

>> Uh yes. So uh the application for case

number 2632 involves a variance and

special exception uh for a proposal to

consolidate the existing properties into

a mixeduse building with three

apartments at top retail bakery and

crafts or artisan studio spaces which

requires zoning hearing board approval

of special exceptions for the proposed

multif family dwelling use and relief

from the off- streetet parking

requirements per section 7-305.7

and 7-327.6 six of the zoning code

respectively and variances for relief

from the specific from the density

regulations

um in section and specific criteria in

sections 7-307.3

and 7-309.2V

of the zoning code respectively. Uh so

the subject properties are a bit unique

in that um you have the main property at

1637 North Thirdrd Street and you have

uh one of those half properties uh which

tend to have been smaller units that uh

were fit in in between regularly

numbered uh properties in the past. Um

the property itself, the primary

property uh did once accommodate a

laundromat I believe on the first floor

of the property and uh at least one uh

residential unit above at uh and that

was at 1637

um uh North Third Street. Uh the

laundromat has been uh out of use for I

think uh eight seven or eight or eight

or nine years or so. Um and then around

uh 2000 or 19 or 2019 uh a a owner of

the property began work uh the codes

bureau identified the work and issued a

stop work order because they did not

have a building permit. So they came in

did the got the building permit uh and

started doing some exterior work and

then uh COVID happened and it kind of uh

all work ceased. Uh, and if you've been

by the property, you know they have like

no windows in the property. So, it the

windows had been taken out. Um, I think

some of the roofing uh was under

construction when everything stopped.

Uh, and so it's been in this condition

for about 6 years now. Um, with just

open to the elements uh and uh in a kind

of unfinished state due to a uh former

owner of the property. Um and so the

applicant is uh basically looking to uh

reestablish that mixeduse um identity,

but also uh again to uh add in the uh

unit at 1637 and a half uh North Third

Street for a total of three units on

site. Uh and those will be on the upper

floors uh of the uh property. Uh and

then on the first floors, they'll have

uh the uh crafts and arts studio and

bakery use. uh and the applicant can

provide a little bit more information

about those uh specific uh commercial

spaces. Um you know with respect uh to

the use uh the uses uh I would say it's

not out of character for the corridor.

Uh the board may remember maybe four

year three or four years ago uh the the

approval of a retail store across the

street at 1644 North Thirdrd Street. Um,

and if you uh been to the site, you'll

notice across the street at the corner

lot. There was definitely a commercial

use at some point in the past. Um, and

then just uh to the south of the subject

properties is the Harrisburg Improv

Theater. Uh, and then further south from

there, you get to the um, Steam Academy.

Uh, so the property so the property is

located in a mixeduse corridor. It's

kind of at the northern end of what I

would call that mixeduse corridor

extending from uh, kind of downtown

Midtown. Um and uh the id would say the

biggest issue is uh the request for

relief from off street parking. Um and

in considering uh what uh was a

reasonable um you know approach to this

because I believe the uh three different

units on site um required a total of I

want to say 14 uh off street parking

spaces. Uh I did think back to the um uh

proposal for the community garden that's

just to the south which was going to be

a community center and then uh 12 units

on the upper floors. Uh and as part of

that review uh the board required the

applicants to uh secure 10 spaces in the

lot at 1601 North Thirdrd Street uh a

long vac uh standing um surface parking

lot there. Uh and so uh you know we you

know in looking at what viable reuses

could there be for this? Again it was a

mixed use building in the past but it's

located in a fairly uh dense uh corridor

there and there's no way to provide off-

streetet parking on site. The rear of

the lots are um landlocked. Uh there's

no way to access those without driving

through other properties. So, we kind of

have to ask ourselves, how can we turn

this former mixeduse property, you know,

back into a productive and activated uh

property for the corridor uh and the

community. And again, the biggest issue,

which we presumed would probably be off

street parking. And so, we felt that uh

the approach taken for the development

just to the south would be appropriate

for uh the applicant's current proposal.

Um,

with that all being said, the planning

commission recommends that the zoning

hearing board uh approve the request

with the following conditions. Uh, if

granted approval, the applicant must

consolidate the two lots via submitt and

approval of a formal lot consolidation

application. uh granted zoning approval

to move forward with the project as

proposed. The applicant shall allow the

codes bureau to perform a comprehensive

inspection to identify any outstanding

code violations and will receive

approval for all necessary city permits

prior to receiving a certificate of

occupancy. Uh if any proposed signage

will not be in conformance with the

applicable zoning regulations, the

applicant must submit and secure

approval of the requisite zoning relief

requests. Uh, the applicant must submit

a certificate of appropriateness

application and receive approval from

HARB for the proposed exterior

alterations indicated on the floor

plans, including the construction of a

new rear balcony and potential changes

to the front elevation. And finally, the

applicant should engage the owners of

the surface parking lot at 1601 North

Third Street to ascertain whether they

are able to secure annual leases on site

for either residential tenants or

commercial employees.

Uh the Harrisburg Planning Commission

recommends the zoning hearing board

approve the request for the following

reasons. The properties have extended

have experienced extended vacancy over

the past five plus years with prior work

originally approved in November 2020

left unfinished creating openings in the

building envelope that have contributed

to interior deterioration. As such, the

properties require substantially more

investment than a comp comparable

conversion of an occupied structure. Uh

the project will reduce will reconstruct

a blighting influence and attractive

nuisance into new units that will

contribute to the housing inventory in

the city and neighborhood will add

community focused commercial businesses

and will rehabilitate historically

significant buildings. And finally, the

project advances the purpose of the RM

district zoning district provided in

chapter 7-305.4C 4C of the zoning code

as it proposes a medium-density

residential development along with

compatible neighborhood focused

businesses and will implement goals of

the comprehensive plan related to

mixeduse development along North Third

Street and the preservation of historic

resources.

>> Okay. Um and who was here for the

applicant?

>> Carla Harrison. Okay.

And you're with CAS Group LLC,

>> correct?

>> Okay. And what's your position there?

>> Uh, managing director.

I do.

>> Carla Harrison. C A R L A H A R R I S O

N.

>> Okay, Miss Harrison.

>> Yes. So, um, our project is an adaptive

reuse of, um, an existing mixeduse

structure, um, on a commercial corridor.

Our goal is to reactivate the building.

As Mr. Knight stated, it's been vacant

for, um, a number of years. Um, and to

serve the neighborhood with the

commercial use on the first floor and

modest uh, residential units on the

second and third floors. Um the ground

floor consists of the bakery and the

studio. Um and then the uh there there's

no expansion of the existing footprint.

All of our work is within um the

existing envelope. Uh

limiting it to two units um would

underutilize an entire floor. Um so I I

know that we did submit some building

plans. Hopefully you had time to review

them. Um but the way that the building

is currently structured um

the the third floor um is

a portion of it is is almost like an

attic. Um and so

not being able we and so we've made

apartment to a duplex um so that we're

able to maximize that that space. Um, so

there are three units. Uh, two of them

are one-bedroom apartments and then the

duplex is a two-bedroom apartment. Um,

and that we feel is the best way to

utilize that third floor. Um,

as far as the traffic and ingress and

egress, um, North Third Street is a

pedestrian or oriented corridor with

proximity to public transit routes. Um,

there's existing sidewalk access. We

won't be creating any new driveways um

or additional curb cuts. Um, and of

course, emergency access remains

unchanged there. Um, so Uh also, um as a

part of our plans, we have a fully

sprinkler code compliant um building.

So, that's a great upgrade there. Um

North Third Street is already a mixeduse

corridor as he mentioned. Um and we're

able to add modest housing there and and

activate a previously underutilized

building uh which will serve the

neighborhood. Um

there is a plan for all of our trash. So

with the commercial space, we have um a

plan to put all of the trash in the back

that will be fenced in and screened in

um and as well as the historic

character. So the historic character

will be maintained.

Um,

in addition to submitting the formal

application, we uh reached out to all of

our neighboring businesses and residents

to explain the project and to gather

their feedback. Um, we did receive a a

lot of positive support there. We were

able to explain um describe the bakery

and the studio as well as the

residential renovation and several of

the Midtown business owners as well as

the residents um signed a petition.

supporting the project. I did include

that in our application as well.

Um

there we are in a historic district so

there will not be any demolition of any

historically significant facade

elements. Um all of our exterior

exterior improvements and plans are

restorative. Um,

so our plan for parking relief, I'd like

to address that since that's the biggest

issue here. Uh, we as a part of our

conditions, we do have a plan to contact

the, uh, owner of the neighboring, I

believe it's a block away, the parking

lot there to secure long-term um, leases

to offer spaces for our residential

tenants. Um and so we do have plans to

do that. Uh

our operations plans for the bakery and

the studio include limited employees. Um

obviously daytime and early hours. um

there are no late night operations and

so we won't have the effect from the

commercial spaces with parking hopefully

in the evening when the other

neighboring um residents are coming home

uh because our our commercial spaces

will be closed. Um we plan for long-term

tenency in our residential units. So

there's no shortterm um tenency there,

no short-term rentals.

Um, and again, I'd like to just

highlight that we are our our main goal

here is to revitalize the the structure

um, knowing that it's been underutilized

for a long time um, and enhance the the

commercial corridor as well. uh also

supporting small business development

um which we believe aligns with the

city's comprehensive plan uh for

adaptive reuse and housing diversity as

well as small business activation.

So that's everything. Thank you for your

time.

>> Any questions?

Good evening. Thank you for coming out.

your presentation there basically

covered 90% of my class questions and

that's a that's a rarity always a

question but um but I've got one your

your baker you're proposing

um I see their planning I mean the

planning

board basically said that um

whatever sign you put has to conform

How do you how do you go about

advertise?

>> Um

we will I so

we have a plan for a tenant there. Um

and that will be discussed with them. Uh

signage

I believe we would just have to conform

and use uh social media is a great

marketing tool these days. Um, and there

are just other ways I believe that we'll

have to to get that job done. I don't I

don't think that the sign would would

hinder um our business activity there.

>> One of the conditions or

>> the planning commission bought up they

assign wouldn't be for that area. Yeah.

And and one of the things the planning

bureau usually does in uh the case of

you know small businesses looking to

establish themselves in our existing

spaces and especially when they're in a

historic district is to use window signs

uh because you do have all that

especially for a project like this you

have those big storefront windows um and

that is not subject to harbor view. So,

it allows uh applicants to quickly and

easily identify themselves without

having to go through um the additional

review of the historic uh board. And if

later on the applicants choose to put up

a wall sign or a projecting sign,

they're certainly welcome to do that.

But uh we want to help them, you know,

get on get up and get started on their

feet as soon as possible. So, we usually

advise them to use window signage to

start.

>> Second concern was parking.

I'm always parker. I've actually been at

your place a few times. Okay. Um

the park your parking work out some

arrangement with there. I think was

you're right off Hamilton going between

Hamilton and uh Harris Street. I'm just

trying to think behind what's right

behind that little street back there.

There some whoever that whoever owns

that area work some type of agreement

out for

Okay. For for parking,

>> correct? Yep.

>> It'll be all street parking because it's

behind it will be actually behind the

building behind where the uh dumpsters

are going to be.

So when people as they park back they're

going to have to go around Hamilton

Street and down Third Street to come

back into the building or you're going

to build some type of

egress or entry type of point from the

rear.

>> So I apologize. It's not the uh it's not

in the rear the the lot. It's the lot.

Um I don't have the street here.

>> Yeah. So, we we did reach out to the

owner of that lot and he mentioned that

um it's not zoned as a parking lot. Um

so, the lot that I'm referring to, it

was uh owned by Hack. Um yeah. So, I

parking in the rear is not an option. I

don't I don't think I don't know, Mr. N.

I don't think it's zoned as a parking

lot. That's what I was told.

>> No, there's that little lot on the back

is not technically a legal parking lot.

>> Yeah, people park there, but it's not.

It's just one of those things that, you

know, it's there and everybody asks how

it got there, but uh and I don't know

the answer to that, but

>> I guess I'll drive my car

over. Okay. But okay. Um

that's all questions I have. But you

said there's a little lot a little there

used to be a little house in an empty

lot on Third Street. Um you said that's

an empty lot, but you tried to reach out

to the owner.

want to do with that or

>> um Yeah, I'm not sure. He he did mention

he was looking to uh to Yeah, correct.

>> Well, thank you. Thank you very much.

>> Yes. Thank you.

>> Right. Um first, Mr. Knight, can you

confirm? You said it's technically 14

parking spaces that are required for

this.

>> Uh yeah, hold on. Let me let me check

here.

>> Okay.

Um,

>> oh, sorry. Uh, nine. Yeah, nine off

street. Sorry, it was nine off street.

>> I was uh miscalculating. Yeah, nine.

>> Okay,

>> so nine. Um, yeah, just to kind of

reiterate, um, it would have been great

actually if there was already some type

of agreement that we could reference as

part of the application at this point.

Um, but I did hear that you are planning

to reach out to um, that property owner

to using that space. Um the other thing

that I did have a question about

um Miss Harrison is so for this

specifically looking at the part of the

dimensional variance um we talked about

having I guess instead of two

residential units having a third, right?

It sounded like it was more so of

just how you would like to use the

property as opposed to there actually

being in need. Um, you know, that would

require

um that variance or that you know makes

it I guess that provides the foundation

in terms of a hardship for that

particular variance. So I just wanted to

see do you have any other I guess

insights or explanation regarding that

request or that desire you know for

there to be three units as opposed to

just two.

>> Absolutely. So similar to Mr. uh Shoks I

believe his name was uh when we go in to

develop these uh poorly conditioned

properties that like as he mentioned

it's been exposed to the elements for a

number of years um we've brought in

structural engineers and then once you

realize the actual cost of the

renovation and renovating the building

um maximizing the potential for income

is the only way to make it make sense.

Um, obviously we will be spending

hundreds of thousands of dollars to to

to get this property co-compliant. Um,

just the sprinkler system alone uh is a

a huge cost. And so um that's the

financial aspect is one of the biggest

hardships. Um,

and I I personally believe that just

adding one additional unit um is not

such a big ask uh here in this

particular property. Um

because so he mentioned that there was

one apartment but when we went there

there were two. So, there are actually

uh four existing electrical panels,

which is how we can tell there were four

meters there at the property already.

Um, and so we're just requesting the the

one additional unit there. But financial

hardship is is the biggest one.

>> Okay. Thank you for that explanation.

Um, and uh, no, it it definitely is good

to see that there's interest in doing

something with that building because I

kind of cringe every time I pass it with

those missing windows.

Um yeah so no it's that's good to hear

that there is some interest um in that

particular location.

>> Yes. Um but I think those are the only

questions I have

>> for you

and your part will be for market value

or

>> yes

>> how would you basically recoup your your

your revenue or

>> um I can't give you an exact number but

um absolutely fair market value nothing

nothing um above that Um,

personally, we always like to work with

uh programs. So, I'm a programming type

of person. Um, you know, section 8 fair

housing is is all open um and up for

for discussion there. But, um, and and

it would allow us even those rates that

that they offer would allow us to recoup

our costs. Yes. So,

And you currently own it, but you

aren't.

>> Correct.

>> Okay. Thank you.

>> Um, the apartments, how are they?

Because I know there's a 1637 and a 1637

and a half. So, where are the units as

compared to those structures and all

that?

>> So, um, at the front of the building

there are three entrances. So, the two

entrances on the outside lead to the

commercial spaces. Uh the door in the

middle would lead to a set of stairs

that go up to the uh three separate

entrances to three different apartments.

Uh and so all of the apartments are

located on the second uh and third

floor. So uh the one-bedroom apartments

are on the second floor and the

two-bedroom apartment is a two-level

apartment. So, it is the kitchen and

living area is on the second floor and

then all of the bedroom um and bathrooms

are on the third floor.

>> Okay. And that one that's 1637 and a

half that smaller

unit or whatever structure there. Um

does that have not quite a whole unit

over that one like

>> but is that right? It's not like quite

one unit over that one. The other two

are over 1637. Right. It's kind of like

part of one unit.

>> Starts over 1637 and a half and then it

goes into 1637 where the other two units

are.

>> Correct. So technically the half side

only consists of the studio on the

bottom floor. Um and then there's uh

just the bathroom or one of the bedrooms

of the second unit. So it's it's very

small. Um but yeah, you're correct.

>> Okay. And and Mr. Knight, just trying to

then also confirm because we got the

variance uh uh requests and the one is

for the uh specific criteria kind of

handling I know how you right looked at

just kind of handling them separately to

just to be I don't know safer just to be

>> you know thorough you know. Yeah, it was

it was I mean it's neither is was really

a existing single family. So I I don't

even know that the specific the

revariance for relief from the specific

criteria was required and I may have

been there may have been like a

difference in how I was reviewing at the

beginning when I started writing the

agenda and the case report and once I

got through all the documentation I

realized it was something different and

I didn't remove that because as I was

reading uh the case report here I was

kind of wondering why I had had that uh

variance in there. I think it's just the

variance for the density and not for the

specific criteria.

>> Okay.

>> Because the because again those were not

um uh single family dwelling,

>> right? They weren't before they weren't

and and that's what I was just wondering

is even though I knew the upper ones

were it's not the same right with

conversion. So okay. So then it'll just

be the density. Okay. We'll just uh

write the density the parking

>> and all the 10 spaces. Uh yeah, the

density parking

>> nine nine.

>> Yeah. And then and then the multif

family dwelling too. So that's the other

special exception. Yep.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. Anybody here uh wants to provide

comment on this application?

City. Anything from the city?

>> I just had more of a question just

because your question kind of confused

me and I haven't been over there. So the

address of the apartments is 1637 like

A, B and C and then the business is 1637

and a half or how do the addresses break

down?

>> Well, I think that a part of our

conditions since it includes the lot

consolidation, would that mean that we

would just have one address then at that

point?

>> I forgot about So you're going to

>> are you going to use one of the current

addresses for all three or

>> correct? So I think that it would just

be apartment like you said a

>> like a B and C.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

to secure a parking agreement to satisfy

the off streetet parking requirements.

Um that is suitable by the city

solicitor.

You or me?

>> No, you.

>> Well, as long as she's in agreeance,

>> right? That's what I say.

>> Yes.

>> That's what I Yeah.

>> Yes. I agree.

>> Okay.

Is there a second?

>> I second.

>> Okay. We have a motion and a second. All

in favor?

>> I

>> Okay.

It's approved. So, we will send a

decision to you. Okay. Okay.

>> Uh within 45 days um

the approval with the conditions. Okay.

>> All right. Thank you.

>> Great.

Yeah.

>> Are you guys going to be taking action

on the continuences?

We had those.

>> Yes. Oh, the well the

continuences to tonight. All All the

because the other ones wait.

>> I think there were continuences to the

April meetings. Uh oh, the mar the wait

a second though. Wait, wait, wait.

>> Those one

several of them right though requested

directly a continuence of the March

meeting to the April meeting, right?

>> Yes. Yes.

>> The ones for tonight requested a

continuence to tonight.

>> Yes. The the other ones for 40 North

17th Street, uh 1840 to 1860.

>> I get it.

>> Uh 923 North 18th Street and 1301 Berry

Hill Street. just requested from the

March planning commission to the April,

>> but we would have voted on those.

>> Last one's meeting, which we didn't get

to do. Yeah.

>> Let Hold on. Let me make sure I got

to do it. Okay, hold on. So, first of

all, we're going to have continuence

requests for applications 2625,

2629, 2630, and 2632.

uh the continuence request uh from the

March meeting till tonight's meeting. Is

there a motion to approve those

requests?

>> I made a motion.

>> Okay. Seconded.

>> So move.

>> Okay. All in favor?

>> I

>> Okay. Now the uh applications

uh 26 26 26 27 26 28 2631

and 2633.

um that filed um requests

uh of the March meeting to the regularly

scheduled meeting of April 20, 2026. Are

those requests for continuences uh

approved? Is there a motion for that?

>> Motion.

>> Second.

>> Second.

>> Okay. All in favor?

>> I

>> Okay, motion's passed. Thank you. wanted

to make sure he got both though that to

to cover

>> uh cover that. So,

>> so the April 13.

>> Well, one more. I just want to uh I just

want to uh take the opportunity uh to

formally introduce uh Steph uh Thompson,

a new deputy director, started last

Monday. Uh so, uh throwing it right into

the mix here with two back-to-back

zoning hearing board meetings. Um, but I

promise her it's not like this every

month. Um, but uh, you know, I think

I'll still be handling things for the

next couple months here. Um, but I think

she'll be taking over fully everything

in July. So, she's just kind of getting

her feet away here.

>> Welcome.

>> She'll be I

come up, I'll come to I'll ask

you.

So the next one is

>> next week is

five from

>> Yeah. And then

>> four although one requested.

>> Yeah. One requested uh actually two. So

the Walnut Street one and the um the two

Wall Street ones, the 1854 and 1860 and

the 1257 and 1259 both requested till

May. So we'll still have

Yeah.

better.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Motion

meeting

>> second

one.

>> Thank you.

Thank you.