Harrisburg City Planning Commission Meeting - 02/04/2026

Uh, commissioners, do you receive the

January 7th meeting minutes? Are there

any changes, deletions, additions?

>> Is there a second?

>> Is there a second?

>> I'll second.

>> It's been moved and second to approve

the minutes as they are. All those in

favor state by saying I. I.

>> Opposed?

Motion carries.

Under old business, there's none.

Under new business, this is a land

development plan application for 1171

South Cameron Street. It's zone

industrial filed by Chris Can

>> Katania.

>> Can diffult.

>> All right. Sorry about that. With

storage 5 Harrisburg LLC.

This is to convert the existing office

building to a self storage facility and

construct additional storage unit

buildings on site. Jeff,

>> uh so yeah, as uh as you noted, the

applicant is proposing to convert the

existing office building into a self-

storage facility and to construct

additional storage unit buildings on

site. Uh the property at 1171 South

Cameron Street is a 3.72 acre lot

featuring a three-story 118,422

ft structure which was constructed 1989.

Property is bounded by the property at

1119 South Cameron Street to the north.

The property at 1100 South 13th Street

to the east. The properties at 1100

South 13th Street and 1201 South Cameron

Street to the south and South Cameron

Street to the west. This detached

structure features elements of a modern

architectural style. Character defining

features include the varied facade

treatments including a base of split

base CMU block with vertical metal

siding above the horizontal design

elements, the large metal awning over

the main entrance and the stair elevator

towers on the northern and southern

elevations. Although there is an access

point on the front elevation, the main

entrance is on the southern elevation

and features full view metal double

doors set within a simple masonry

surround and sheltered by a red standing

seam metal awning with ice stops. There

are other entrances around the building

with most with most featuring solid

metal doors and one and double door

configurations. Administration features

plate glass ribbon windows encircling

each floor of the building. The building

is topped by a flat roof of

indeterminate materiality. The building

is surrounded by a large surface parking

lot with a small gazebo at the base of

the ridge to the east of the property.

The Cameron Street corridor primarily

features industrial and commercial

buildings with few distinctive features

with little in the way of design

creating a connective architectural

character. As such, while the building

does exhibit aspects of modern office

building design that are reflected

elsewhere in the corridor, the property

contributes little to the character of

the streetscape and neighborhood.

The planning bureau staff recommends

the request be approved with the

following conditions. Uh because this

the property is located in the AE

100-year flood plane, any proposed

development is subject to conformance

with the regulations in chapter 7315 of

the zoning code, specifically with

respect to investment into the existing

structure and the construction of new

storage buildings on site. Uh, and the

applicant should construct a separate

stairway on the north side of the center

driveway connecting to the proposed curb

bumpout in front of the main entrance to

provide dedicated pedestrian access and

ensure safer circulation for all

potential customers. Planning Bureau of

Staff recommends the request be approved

for the following reasons. The adaptive

reuse of a large commercial building as

a self- storage facility will ensure

rehabilitation and occupancy occupancy

of a long vacant structure. Proposed

site improvements such as access gates,

oneway traffic flow, lighting, and new c

and new sidewalks and pedestrian

infrastructure will improve visibility

and enhance the safety [clears throat]

of customer circulation to and through

the property. And finally, the location

of the proposed storage facility on a

major mixeduse corridor near adjacent

municipalities, Steel and Switara

Township, and the new Interstate 83

access ramps and proximate to a dense

apartment complex to the east

established conditions that should

ensure the viability of the proposed

use. Okay.

>> Thank you, Jeff. Could you state your

name, um, address and relationship to

the project?

>> My name is Stephen Taylor. I work for

Civil and Environmental Consultants. So,

I'm representing um, Storage 5 LLC and

Chris Katania. Um, we're located at uh,

4350 Northern Pike in Monroeville,

Pennsylvania.

Um,

yeah, as Mr. I laid out.

>> You are you acceptable of the

conditions?

>> Oh yeah. Um

we did have one question um

for the stairs. Um,

are you talking about right here where

this curb is to just provide a couple

steps into this striped area

>> and you'd be crossing right across a

stop into like this thing so that people

could walk in

driveway.

>> Okay. Um, and then the bicycle racks. I

didn't see anything in the code that

specified a number per use or

um you know obviously we're not

anticipating anybody coming to a storage

site on a bicycle. Uh that'd be a heck

of a trailer in some serious lake power.

Um so I mean there could be people that

use it to store valuables or something

or something like that. I think it's not

unreasonable to anticipate that somebody

show up there, but having a rack or two

is only necessary. We're not talking

like 10 racks or anything like that.

>> Okay. Yeah. I just I was just looking

for clarification. Um like, you know,

right in this area is probably

>> I was thinking right

>> the ballards.

>> Okay.

>> Just like one or two.

>> That's fine. All right.

Um, and then the final was the city

arborist uh was supposed to provide

comments as an attachment. We didn't

receive those. Um, so I'm not exactly

>> Yeah, that was on the digital version

that's on the website. Uh, so you go on

there, you'll be able to find that.

>> Okay.

>> It was a relatively short

pages

and

So I think I think basically he's

basically saying just maintain the

property

on site like he's not expecting trees or

anything.

>> Okay.

>> Very good. Okay. Yeah. Because we just

have this, you know, the landscape strip

out front. Um

>> so maybe we can provide a a variety of

plants there. Um versus I think it's

just one type of shrub right now.

>> Yeah, we will. Once you once you read

through the formal review that he had

again that's on the website

>> you'll be able to see if there's

anything questions.

>> Very good.

>> Okay. Um yeah I am

>> good with the conditions of approval.

>> Okay.

>> Um with that commissioners I have no

questions at this time but if you have

questions or concerns I'll start with

commissioner.

Okay. Jeffrey, is the property vacant

right now? [clears throat]

>> Uh, yeah, it's been vacant for about

five years.

>> Oh, really?

>> I'm curious who used to be in there. Was

it like one company in there or was it

at least the various

>> Uh, it was I think

>> Okay. That's just one boat you drive by,

you never think much about. I just

curious.

>> All right. Uh, Steve, you're from

Monroeville. Do you have other locations

here in Harrisburg, other storage

facilities or

>> not currently? Um, they are looking at a

couple of sites in the area. Um, I'm not

sure if exactly in Harrisburg, but in

talks with that, but

>> I take it they have locations in

Pittsburgh. Is that

>> Yeah, they have they have locations

nation Well, I'm not sure if nationwide

is correct, but they're they're out of

Texas, so on the eastern seabboard, they

have several locations.

>> All right. Yeah. Nothing further. pretty

pretty cut and dry.

>> Uh, Commissioner Reed,

[clears throat]

>> I noticed you're doing five 950 units.

About what size are those units?

>> Um, they vary. Uh, I think the smallest

one is about a 15 by 10. Um, and then 20

by 30 might be the largest. I'm not sure

of the interior. I'm not uh apprised to

what exactly they're doing as far as the

size. So, how many will you be building

versus what's existing?

>> Yeah. So, there's none existing right

now. Um, so they're going to

>> New buildings.

>> Yeah, the new buildings. Um,

I don't know if you would consider them

individual probably one, two, three,

four, five, six structures which will

each house several storage unit

>> within each building.

>> Okay. Thank you.

Um just a quick question. Um I guess is

there a demand for I guess the

facilities?

>> As far as I've heard uh yeah they're

they're looking at multiple sites to

build to continually you know build um

self storage are facilities. Um I know

out by my way but near Pittsburgh

they're getting built everywhere. So

>> seems to be like the Dollar General

boom. They're just like popping up left

and right. So I assume there's a demand.

Um

this quite a bit postco

um so [clears throat] this this is

actually the first project I've worked

with storage 5. Um so I haven't

personally seen a ton of those. But

yeah, I mean I know that's a hot ticket

is the reuse of the old office building

spaces that are just sitting vacant like

this one has been. Um

>> um Commissioner

Okay, Commissioner,

>> thanks. Um

I think this is a pretty good use

actually, uh converting this office

space. Um it's a good set of plans. The

the only question I had because it

didn't jump out at me on the plans.

Signage for the property on the site.

Are you doing any sort of significant

signage?

I didn't see anything noted.

>> Uh, you know, that hasn't been discussed

with us. Um,

Storage 5 does have an architect working

on their building layout and whatnot,

and I believe he would be coordinating

with them. Um, as far as you mean like a

building mounted sign for the storage or

like traffic signs or all of the above?

>> Um, particularly

uh building name company, right? Like at

sort of

>> signage for the business for the use of

storage. Um, I'm not as concerned about

parking signs. We do have this is

probably front of mind because we do

have something in the zoning code around

signage. Um, so we'd want to make sure

that it adheres to our to our code

requirements.

>> Sure. Um, yeah, I do not have any

knowledge on that. I I can find out

exactly where and what size signs they

are planning to place, if any.

>> So perhaps we can add a condition um for

any site new site signage to conform to

our our zoning code requirements.

request a Yeah. Okay.

>> That's it.

>> No. Um, you know, clever adaptive reuse.

I think that fits our overall goals into

development. So, glad to see looking

forward to see what type of others,

you know, the space works out.

>> Uh Jeff, where I'm trying to figure out

where this I should know where this

location is exactly. Is this where the

traffic light on Cameron Street was

going to pend or

>> Yeah, it's basically just south of

Cameron Street.

>> Okay. No, no. Okay. Couldn't picture it.

Uh saying that, is there any Anyone from

the public for against this project? If

you are, state your name and address.

No.

To my right. No. To my left. No.

Commissioner, I got to get a motion.

>> Is there a second?

>> Second.

>> Okay. Tie goes to the young lady.

[laughter]

All those in favor state by saying I.

>> I.

>> I.

>> Oppos.

Good luck.

>> Thank you for your time.

>> I thought it was the one street.

I don't know what they're doing. I think

it's a right off.

Yeah. Yeah.

The president comes there. Maybe that's

his he's building for himself.

U item number two. This is the zoning

code amendment for signage regulations

outlined in chapter 7-325

for the zoning code. This is filed by

the Harrisburg Planning Bureau. This is

to revise and streamline the ordinance

to support city businesses and

organizations, accommodate modern

signage best practices, and ensure new

signage designs are compatible with

surrounding neighborhoods.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh so yeah, so this uh application was

uh filed by, you know, submitted to

ourselves, I guess, filed by the the

planning bureau. Uh but it's in you know

it's subsequent to discussion with this

uh uh body uh with the the mayor's

office um and you know basically

incorporating comments we've heard over

the years from uh various people

including applicants uh that come before

uh the planning commission zoning

hearing board. um and

um seeks to streamline uh the the

chapter a bit by um kind of removing

some unnecessary

uh language stuff that's never been

addressed. Like again the Christmas tree

signs thing like I I don't think that

not only have we never used it, I can't

imagine the scenario where we would I

don't think I've ever even seen a

Christmas tree sale, you know, here. So

I think there's some definitely you

know, antiquated aspects of of the

zoning code with respect to our signage.

Um, but I also wanted to kind of

reorganize the chapter a little to put

stuff of like higher um importance

further up the chapter like uh the

location of signs and illumination of

signs. It was kind of buried after some

other weirder sections. Um, and so kind

of wanted to get that right after the uh

main chart uh there. Uh also wanted to

make just some minor um grammatical

formatting uh changes. Uh but really the

um uh the driver for this was figuring

out how to

um

make our regulations a bit more flexible

without kind of increasing the impacts

on the neighborhoods in which these

places are located. Uh and you know that

included both making signage a little

bit larger um so that we're not having a

parade of people coming in for you know

I need a square foot, you know,

deviation from the zoning code to be

able to get my business advertised. Um,

even in the best of circumstances,

that's a six week wait uh for potential

business. And of course, every day is

important, you know, when you're trying

to start a new business. uh seeking to

like clarify

um the signage regulations for corner

properties because I know in the past we

had somebody who it was for the I think

um Harrisburg University building where

they wanted to do three signs three

large wall signs uh on it but um the

regulations were a bit unclear so it

kind sought to you know clarify but

confirm for the public what they're

allowed uh to do as a byite option. Um,

and we also increased it a little bit to

say for corner properties you could do

uh two projecting signs instead of just

one, which makes sense. You're going to

have two frontages on streets. Um and uh

also to make sure that um you know we

expanded uh the window signage allowance

and you know that's more along the lines

of um I think when you see in office

buildings they'll put up these you know

I think a lot of the home health care

they like fill in all the windows with

like their you know these images or

graphics and sometimes their name. Um,

and you know, that's kind of a little

bit of a gray area of if somebody's

putting up a decal on the window, you

know,

how exactly should we be measuring that

and is it important to, you know, call

that a sign and regulate that? And, um,

I think it is so that we're not just

covering windows, you know, that helps

to advance um, public safety by, you

know, having that natural surveillance

out on the street so people are seen out

of buildings and and so people on the

street can feel seen um, when you're out

there. Um, but also because we usually

um make a recommendation to uh new

businesses that if you're unsure of what

your signage should be, instead of just

going and ordering a sign and putting up

there, put up some window decal signs.

Um and so we want to make that and

that's relatively low impact signage. So

we want to make that as um accessible uh

for businesses as possible while again

not allowing people to just fill up

their windows with all kinds of stuff.

Um, and one last thing I think was uh to

address some of the violations that we

see with respect to um exterior signage

like the kind you see on the outside of

convenience stores where people just put

up, you know, the cigars for sale or

whatever um different types of products

they might have like Pepsi or something

um that they just kind of screw into the

outside of a building. And also those

feather flag signs that you see a lot of

times around auto repair shops. um they

aren't they weren't technically

permitted under the old zoning code

either, but I think there was enough

ambiguity that um I felt it was

important to really call that out so

that uh so that people could easily

reference that in the zoning code. So

overall that was kind of the impetus uh

behind a lot of the changes. Um, but you

know, at the end of the day, I'm really

interested in hearing what the planning

commissioners think with respect to um

whether the increases in the signage

size or maybe the types of signage or

number of signs uh that are proposed

under this new amendment um are in

keeping with line with what you guys

were thinking is appropriate uh based on

your experience here.

[snorts]

[clears throat]

>> Um yeah, I have no questions, but I

think it's It's a good I think it's good

project that you're doing. Um, anything

to update any of our regulations and you

know requirements

u keeping them up to date is is

definitely a good thing to do. So, I'll

turn it over to the commissioners and

commission to

[clears throat] the new ordinance bec.

>> Yeah, I think for the most part I didn't

really shrink any of the signage sizes.

Uh,

>> right. What's that?

>> That doesn't mean you increase it,

>> right? I mean, it was it was generally

minor like 20 25% increases. I'm not

really looking to say you're allowed to

do 150 square foot instead of 75 in the

commercial general district for example.

Um I think the one major change we did

make was to the size of the byite

allowance for billboard sizes and I did

that by looking um at the standard size

of billboards which is 672 square feet

and ours was 350 so it's about half. So

almost anybody that comes in and wants

to do a billboard is going to have to go

uh go through that process. I think

there will be a little I imagine there

will be some change as the industry

transitions over to electronic signage.

I think you're probably not going to

have those standard plates of 672 feet.

It'll be it'll be tall vertical signs,

wider signs. Um so I wanted to make that

maybe a little bit uh more reflective of

what the industry standard is. But at

the same time, um, I increased the

distance that they had to be from each

other and that they had to be from

residential lot lines so that it wasn't

like we were going to allow our highway

corridors, which we really only have,

uh, two here in the city. We have 81 in

the north and 83 here in the south. Um,

that you weren't just going to see this

proliferation of these large expanses of

billboards um, along the highways, but

it it seeks to, you know, again,

recognize where the industry is and

where it might be going. Um but also to

reduce the potential impact on the

neighborhoods in which this is you know

which these may be located.

>> So you streamline the process. I mean

somebody coming in wanting relief from

us.

>> Yeah. This doesn't change I mean it

doesn't change any of the um review

requirements or process if they want

something not in conformance with this.

But it just seeks to make it so if

somebody is looking you know to uh start

a new business in the CN district or

something like that. Um, and instead of

well, I'm only limited to 25 square

feet, which is a 5x5 square foot sign.

Like, I can see how that would not be

sufficient to properly identify and

advertise your business. At the same

time, we don't want a 75 foot sign

because a lot of these CN prop owned

properties are in, you know, mixeduse

kind of neighborhood commercial corridor

with residents around. we don't want

these big gaudy signs that are

internally illuminated and like blaring,

you know, out at the properties across

the street. So, sought to make them a

little bigger while I think actually

putting a bit of I'd say I probably made

the lighting regulations uh for the

signage overall a bit more restrictive

so that again there's not that uh glare

that illumination um but it still has

the appropriate size to advertise you

know to allow businesses to advertise

themselves correctly.

>> This started to be

Yeah, I think so. Um, I'd like to do a,

you know, a chapter by chapter kind of

approach to this. I think some of the

chapters will be easier to do than

others. Um, I think, you know, dipping

your toe into the off street parking

chapter might be uh uh pretty a big

lift. Um but um you know I think this

was a good place to start because again

it's something that I think

[clears throat] you know I know you've

been very uh vocal about like hey we've

got these signs coming in like we need

to kind of modify our ordinances. Um but

it's you know I think something that

again helps the business community too.

So, I wouldn't imagine, and again, I

tried not to make any of the changes too

extreme where people would say, "Well,

this is going to be a major change from

maybe what that property across the

street from me could be." Um, while at

the same time, again, giving a little

bit more latitude and flexibility to

businesses.

>> Yeah, [laughter]

Commissioner Reed.

>> Uh, I I have no um issues with the

changes at all. I think they were they

were pretty good. But I do have one

little minor thing since you're making

uh minor grammatical changes and those

kinds of things. Would you change the

state of Pennsylvania to Commonwealth of

Pennsylvania? [laughter]

>> Okay.

>> Absolutely.

>> I didn't catch that one. Yeah.

>> It's on there twice.

>> [laughter]

>> Commissioner Martin,

>> um I am really glad that you chose to

update this section. So, thank you. Um I

like that you updated the chart, you

know, and up like broke out the

different um zoning, you know, um

districts better. That was

>> I definitely think like I always find it

weird that CG and DC were so were in

combined because CG is very auto

oriented and you know usually setbacks

with buildings and freestanding signs,

but you're not going to have that in the

DC district.

>> Right. Okay. All right. So that was what

was driving some of

some of your square footage like for the

CG was taking into account the um

>> yeah like the setbacks from I mean

you're going to you largely see that on

you know Paxton Street for example

>> South 29 street but you do have tend to

have these larger setbacks with

buildings fronted by parking lots and so

having [snorts] larger signage you know

to advert that. And you know, one of the

other things I was thinking is having

larger signage will hopefully prevent um

businesses from wanting to just slap

signage all over the place. I think a

lot of times they're like, I need to be

seen. And if they feel that our

permitted signage is not allowing them

to do that, they might try and, you

know, put up again these kind of cheap

poster board kind of things that they

put on on the outside. Yeah, but you add

there's language in the in the code too

about like construction of signs and you

know just the durability of materials

and things like that too. So, so that's

good.

>> I think my only question and I'm really

I mean I'm certainly not an expert on

this is around the billboards and like

you said I mean we are seeing some more

electronic billboards versus your

traditional

stationary ones we'll call them. I don't

know what you call them but um I mean

500 number what was the basis for that

if the industry standard is 672

>> obviously I agree 375 is too small but

why 500 and I was trying to remember

Lamar advertising was in here not too

long ago right with applications

[clears throat]

and I think they were submitting some

electronic billboards and I I don't

remember what the sizing of those were.

>> I think the one was uh 550.

>> Okay.

>> Um and I can't remember off the top of

my head what the other was. The one was

just north of 81 along Sixth Street and

the other one was uh on the Pensy Supply

property here um on off 83.

>> Um but from what I recall of that

conversation, it seemed like there was

not like there were different sizes for

those two billboards. So it's not

necessar So while the industry standard

might be 672 square feet. Um and again

I'm guessing that's based on you know

well these are the panels that we use to

make uh billboards and so they only come

in regular sizes that's why they tend to

be certain sizes. Um I think uh

you know just giving that that seemed

like a lot when I was like right now I

was like 672 square feet is like huge

and if we just allow that um then maybe

we'll see a lot more of these and you

know that's not necessarily what we

want. We still want to have some um uh

measure of control uh when something

like that comes through because a

billboard is a fairly significant piece

of signage. could be illuminated, which

means there's glare. Uh there's

certainly, you know, the visual um uh

impact of those things. So, it I I'm

hoping that,

you know, in they'll see that, okay,

there's a larger allowance like we're

not we can't there's no way we can make

it 350, so we're going to have to come

through, but maybe we can make it 500

instead of maybe what we wanted, which

was 550 or 672 or whatever. and that

will hopefully limit uh limit um the

size of the billboards that come through

here.

>> Okay.

>> And I think I think you're striking a

you're striking a balance there and I

certainly you know wouldn't

wouldn't be averse to either increasing

that decreasing that as the planning

commission felt. Um I don't think it was

necessarily it was a little bit of art

and a little bit of science into how

that number was determined. I was hoping

Burn would be here to weigh in on the

billboard things. I I just feel like he

deals with those design standards more.

I don't at all. Um I I mean 500 550 to

me to me I'm like what's the difference?

If it's 550,

why not make it? So I it seems sort of

arbitrary. I'm just trying to get like a

basis for rationale behind it.

>> Um

I don't know if anybody else has

thoughts about billboard.

Um,

and then the I guess sort of related I

mean these aren't billboards. They're

still illuminated signs that we

sometimes see in convenience stores.

Where do those fall into category? Like

>> so I tried to make So you mean like an

open sign or something that you might

see?

>> Uh I mean some of these convenience

stores in the city I've seen have like

flat you know they have like illuminated

um lot you know maybe it's like several

lines lottery tickets or there's like a

ticker. It's a moving sort of miniature

little billboard on their store.

>> Where do those fall into the signage

language and the code? Right. It's not a

billboard, is it? Or is it a regular

sign?

>> So, so the the I think what best defines

a billboard is, and it's kind of laid

out there in the language is an off-

premise sign. So, it's like a sign

advertising for something that's not on

the same property.

>> Um, that's probably a very broad

definition, but with respect to the um

ones that you're talking about, those

were not permitted under uh the are not

permitted under the existing

regulations. And I tried to make it more

um evident that they are not permitted

under the new ones. Um because yeah,

they've got yeah, like you said, the

lotto, there's things spinning around,

you know, because they're trying to

attract people. You also have the big um

a lot of times the awnings over top.

They just cover the whole awnings in

like pictures of I don't know the food

they sell or or something like that, you

know. So, you see a lot of different

ones, but you know, that's something I

wanted to tackle. And you know, it's

it's frankly a real um a real challenge

to there are so many of them and just so

many of these things pop up and I'll

when I'm reviewing a mercantile permit

for a new convenience store, I'll put

down on the application uh comments

like, you know, must be in conformance

with the signage regulations and then

they go and do that anyway. Like even if

they agreed to it, they'd go and do that

and just say, well, I'll take it down

when somebody tells me to take it down.

Um but what I'm hoping is that we have

like an uh a section of the zoning code

now where I can just say you're in

violation of this section instead of

like you're in violation of the spirit

of the of the code maybe.

>> Okay. So that's basically captured under

like prohibited signs and then even in

the chart of the zoning districts where

it says illumination, you know, not like

a Okay. All right. Okay. I got you. All

right. That's it. Thanks,

>> Commissioner Vincent.

>> Yeah. for for projects like this, do you

have like a more organized change log

that we can kind of compare and

contrast? So like you know, hey,

increased off- premises from 250 to 500.

That way it's clear because like you

said it there and I'm looking at the

description, but to me this from a

change management standpoint, it's very,

you know, there there's certain language

like off- premises billboards now I see

prevent visual pollution in the city. Is

that a typical term or that seems kind

of that seems like almost to open up for

certain things? I'm just I see a couple

of items through comparing and

contrasting.

>> Yeah, I mean what you guys have at least

in the hard copy packets are basically

like the existing and the proposed and

it's the clean version. So it's kind of

like hard to like draw that connection

between each of those. Um I did put the

you know markup version on the website

and that's just a whole page of red you

know times. Yeah.

>> Um, and what I what I wanted to do, it

was just kind of a matter of like uh

time was to leave up all the track

changes but take down like the minor

changes I did to like formatting or like

oh I underlined this word and I just

didn't have time to go through and like

click and like release like remove all

those. So you just saw like oh he moved

this section from here to here or this

number changed from this to this. So,

um, and again, I think I had, uh, said

in the in an email I sent out that, you

know, a decision doesn't need to be made

tonight on these, and, um, if we want to

hear from the, uh, commissioners who

aren't here, um, I think that makes

sense, too. So, uh, ahead of the March

meeting, um, I can certainly do a

cleanup edit version of the document. I

mean to me like a a major changes minor

change is something that makes it a lot

easier than just two documents side by

side especially since some of the

chapters are now you know slightly off

it's you know you're comparing a little

bit of

>> different things so that way it's a you

know hey this changed to this change and

why right and I heard you say it a lot

of times so that's why I was able to

underline and capture that but that's

documented to me that makes it easier to

make that approval.

>> Sure.

Since we lost our last person,

I guess there's no questions, concerns

from the audience.

>> I just wanted to say um whatever is

decided at some point it's the beginning

of a larger picture. For instance, what

you talked about how it looks when it

goes

to different because

legal department

through so you see more in front of you

what exactly is different but also then

even when you agree to commission what

the changes are then starts like a

public comment the public would have to

be involved I would imagine that

different resists

have different ideas about what

residential as opposed to

>> so then it could change again which

would require more signage and Jeff

talked about maybe posting it

digitally or in the paper as opposed to

trying to figure out where citywide we

post it because it does affect every

single district. So there's a lot of

other components, but I think the main

part in the conversation here is for you

guys to come up with a recommendation

that you're comfortable with whether

it's what Jeff has right now or right

when the other commissioners are here

and that at least you have a good

starting place, you know, we agree with

this and whether it changes or not

throughout the public process.

That's why I think what Jeff has done is

good because he's done a lot of the

changes and

if and when you agree on them it's a

good starting off place for us to then

go forward and take to the public

>> and you have reasons for why he's done

certain things whether it's to keep up

with what everybody else is doing you

know stuff like that so I think it is a

good start and a good place and that way

maybe even a good test run so then when

we do go chapter

you guys get away with how you're doing

that to be included

that kind of

however but it becomes a good test

inevitably changes that you guys talk

about that hopefully

you know

>> we will work with I'll work with Jeff as

much as possible to get it somewhere in

the NPC

that there's supposed to be a solicitor.

I don't know if that means I have to

help [laughter]

or you know and maybe at some point it

would be good to have like a text

>> just outline of what the basic changes

are section by section so

>> people are looking back and forth from

the chart to this.

>> So I think you know will all help inform

what the process going forward and what

works best for you.

>> And and I think this um you know this is

kind of a dry run if you will uh for

maybe other changes because you know I

>> going through something like this I kind

of looked back for okay when's the last

time we did something like this that

that was you know broaden citywide and

it was the density changes for to allow

to accommodate the affordable housing

program of the city. Um and so you know

using that and just basically copying

those documents and then updating them

for uh the uh the current proposals. Um

but yeah to to's point I mean there may

be things we you know need to expand on

when we do this one and then so

hopefully we get a clean uh process

figured out and then we can move through

the other chapters um more quickly. I

think there's some that won't be changed

like the airport zoning overlay district

that was like something handed down from

uh the FAA like so I don't foresee stuff

changing that to the flood plane overlay

ordinance. Um but uh you know I could

see changing the specific criteria that

being something we could do. I mean

there's you know not specific criteria

for some uses that I think there should

be. So you know adding those changing

those um I think maybe the next chapter.

I don't know for sure though.

Well, it appears the commissioners as

well as the staff is

sort of we might not want you vote on

this tonight, but we might want to call

for continuation.

So, I could get a motion on that.

>> Can a motion to halt for continuation?

>> Is there a second on the motion?

All those in favor state by saying I

>> I

>> oppose. Thank you.

>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you for your

input.

[laughter]

>> Yeah. I think [clears throat] before

that density one Neil said I don't know

when the last administration managed to

get one through but um so

>> there's one for bed and breakfast we did

when but those those came from outside.

Those came from private parties that

they were like hey we think this helps.

So I mean that gives you a different

perspective of why that change is being

made um as opposed to like where the

government not the government responding

to the private sector of like hey how do

we do things better when we're

generating it from inside I think um you

know it probably deserves a little extra

scrutinies from other parties

>> Jeff you have anything under other

business

>> I do um I have a draft uh annual report

here so uh

I was looking through

[laughter]

during my tenure but almost during

something

I looked through this last one's like it

really isn't they really aren't too

robust or anything. There really it was

just like here are the prop here are the

commissioners and it actually had all of

their um uh addresses and names and

phone numbers on it. So, I'm sure you

guys don't want me to put that into

um but it it kind of talked about, you

know, it basically just listed here are

all the variances we did uh this year.

Here are all the blight certifications

we did, which is something we did during

my tenure here when we still had the

vacant property reinvestment board that

we haven't done in like the last six

years. Um and then it talked a little

bit about like city-led projects like

the new Fox Ridge project and stuff that

was going on at that time. Um, so this

is, so obviously things are changed a

little bit because now all of that

information is still up online to be

accessed by the public on our web pages.

So we don't really need to call it out.

So I tried to have this be a little bit

more maybe quantitative, more of a

general overview with like quantitative

numbers than what was in uh past ones.

So, um you know, you kind of see in the

first chart here on the second page, uh

the various um applications that you

guys received or that the zoning hearing

board receives, uh what the zoning

hearing board's decisions were on your

uh resolutions in the uh for the past

year, but then going back further and uh

saying, you know, here are the number of

subdivisions we had um in the past five

years. And obviously there's

circumstances why there would be you

know the numbers that there are like 16

land development plans in 2021. We were

just coming out of COVID so there was a

lot more activity. Um but then there's

kind of a downtick there. So I think

it's just interesting to look at the to

look at the figures and kind of you you

get that um you know that pulse of uh

the development activity here in the

city. Um when you look at when you look

through that uh the other work section

there is the chart I hadn't finished

just because it's a kind of labor time

and labor intensive uh but it's using my

work log uh which is not everything we

do in the planning bureau uh my staff

have their own individual work logs but

anything that's an outside permit a

mercantile permit a building permit

flood plane development permit uh will

come across my desk so I do have a

record of it and and that and you see

the numbers there for 2025 so um you

know we're averaging

210

or so, 220 uh entries a a month and

that's you know that's a significant

amount. Um and uh then after that you

can look down to some of the major

accomplishments and uh you know one of

the big things that comes up that

impacts those numbers in the chart above

are the um new processes we um started

this last year in coordination with the

tax enforcement office and the codes

bureau.

um we updated and um kind of expanded

the flood plane zoning certificate

process and that's a document that uh is

filed when there's uh property transfer

here in the city and uh previously I

think it was just basically handled by

the codes administrator but there was

information that you know the zoning

office needed to provide the zoning

allowance whether there's a historic

district whether you're in a flood plane

so adding that into the process it

lengthens the process uh and there were

definitely growing pains as got it up

off the ground. Um, but now we're

processing them much faster and we're

able to identify before a property

changes hands if somebody's going to do

something like a conversion where I can

then notify them and say, you know, you

have on here it's proposed one unit is

supposed to be two units just to let you

know that this is a, you know, zoning

relief process that you're going to have

to go through and given the condition or

the circumstances of the property, uh,

it might not be something that is going

to get approved and maybe that changes

the calculus for that. Maybe they decide

not to buy it. So, but it's better for

them to know up front and frankly for us

to know because it's more less work on

after the fact um if we're able to get

that information to them. So, uh you

know, we've um I think bringing those on

board that was initially

um conveyed to me that that would might

be five to 10 a week of those. Uh more

like uh five a day. So, that tends to be

a bit of a um uh time commitment uh to

get those figured out. But um you know

we've been doing a lot of stuff I think

organizationally and administratively in

the planning bureau this last year with

regard to that with regard to um the

merkantile permits are now all digital.

It used to just be a hard copy document

that was passed from uh department to

department as you um as one department

finished their review and got it to the

next. So that was you know cumulative

time was tended to be longer on that.

Now with the new digital one, an email

goes out to every department that gets a

particular review, whether it's a

restaurant or um you know, an office

building or something. And so everybody

knows up front so they can all do the

kind of work on their own. Uh which

definitely shortens the time. And also

when one department is finished

reviewing it, the applicant gets an

email that says like the pla bureau has

finalized your review and here's some

comments they provided. So, you know, to

my earlier comment about the uh the

signage for like convenience stores that

we would put on the hard copy document,

it's like I don't even know whether that

information was necessarily conveyed to

uh the the business owner um because

they would just get like this mercantile

form. Um but now that we have the that

integrated the email uh into it, now

they get that update and it's like, oh,

I got denied for this reason, so now I

know what I have to address. or oh, I

see that uh I'm in a historic district,

so that's a concern I'll have to have if

I'm planning on any new signage or

something. So, um you know, and and uh

what else? You know, otherwise um our

historic preservation specialist who

started in June of [snorts] last year

has been a great addition. Um in fact,

she's uh beginning work with our GIS

administrator um to uh do uh a historic

preservation map. So that'll be um

hopefully reflective of the information

that's in that st preservation uh

comprehensive plan chapter. That'll kind

of be the first one of those and then we

can build off of that. Um and uh yeah,

otherwise we I think we've done a lot of

internal reorganization um that has

hopefully made uh the the information

we're providing out there to the public

um we're getting it out there faster.

It's more comprehensive um and it allows

the uh public to uh you know I think

better understand

what all our role is in the various

review things and um you know what their

expectation is as a business owner or

property buyer or something.

>> But yeah, I I I'm hope hopefully we'll

finish this up and get you a uh

completed one here uh sometime in the

next week or so. I'd say it's about 90%

done. So

>> if this is open, can we provide

suggestions on things we might want to

see or this is more of a question for

me?

>> Sure. We're again we're we're basically

rebuilding these annual reports for the

first time in a long in a generation. Uh

so if there's things you'd like to see

um and I can provide that information.

>> So so what I would really strongly

request or you know let me know. I know

there's the series of action items

within the comprehensive plan. basically

anything with that label of plans. Um

because I see you put it in a lot of

your items like what's in there, but I

think that would also I think generate

some flow in terms of what people might

expect. So, you know, there's

>> that spreadsheets in there. So, just

anything with plans having that and

like, hey, maybe where we're at with it.

>> Yeah.

right?

>> Yeah.

>> I mean,

>> I think

>> I I would imagine it's a section within

this document. um like what what steps

do we take to implement the comp plan?

Like you said, how many housing

>> housing units got approved? Um I mean,

as Sean has uh noted during our reviews,

that doesn't always mean they get built.

Uh but it's but I mean, it's our job not

to build them. It's our job to get them

through the process. So, you know, I

think we can definitely add that. That

tends to be, you know, stuff like that's

going to be a bit more time and labor

intensive. Um so uh you know but I will

definitely uh you know add that section

to the report.

>> Okay. Good suggestions but be careful

what you're asking for. [laughter]

You know it be more and more but but

this is very good. Uh, with that, could

I get a motion for a