0:02
Well, there is an interesting dichotomy
0:04
that is emerging all across the globe as
0:07
it appears more and more that the
0:09
conflicts in Iran and Ukraine are a
0:12
microcosm of an entirely new reality in
0:15
warfare. And in this we need to pose the
0:18
serious questions. Is the future of
0:20
statecraft simply to threaten from afar
0:24
and hope to coers nations into
0:26
capitulation? And more importantly, have
0:29
we for all intents and purposes seen the
0:32
end of war on a major scale?
0:36
>> Yeah, this might seem to people to be
0:38
pie in the sky and because, you know,
0:40
we've always had wars, therefore we'll
0:42
have wars in the future. And it's rather
0:44
like, you know, I I often get people
0:47
saying to me, well, you know, we look
0:49
historically, we had uh wars all over
0:53
Europe. We had World War I and World War
0:55
II, but as I said to them, there's a big
0:57
difference. We now have nations with
0:59
nuclear weapons. That changed warfare in
1:03
some ways in a extremely significant
1:06
manner, particularly preventing
1:08
conflicts between nations like the
1:12
Russians and the Americans and obviously
1:15
by extension China and the United States
1:18
as well. But with regards to recent
1:20
wars, it's worth noting if you look at
1:24
how the Ukraine war started and here we
1:26
are four years, four months later and
1:29
our warfare has changed out of all
1:31
recognition. It's no longer about tanks
1:36
or armored personnel vehicles or
1:39
standing armies or anything like that.
1:41
It's to do with drones and drone. Drone
1:44
warfare has changed the whole emphasis
1:46
of the battlefield and therefore the
1:48
most important people now are drone
1:51
operators effectively. Yes, you still
1:54
have armies, but as has been proved,
1:57
they're largely totally ineffective
2:00
to to amass them on a huge scale when
2:03
they can easily be killed quite frankly
2:07
with drones. It's as simple as that. And
2:09
that's why tanks and armored personnel,
2:12
vehicles, etc. have become irrelevant
2:16
to a large extent. Then we go to the
2:19
issue of the Iran war where the United
2:22
States in their infinite stupidity once
2:24
again said, "Well, we'll just go and
2:27
bomb uh seven shades out of Iran and
2:30
that will end the war." Well, of course
2:32
it didn't and it never will do because
2:34
bombing countries like that doesn't work
2:38
and and also the United States of course
2:41
now realized that having any sort of
2:44
ground force invasion was not possible
2:47
either. Okay, the terrain's one thing
2:49
but fundamentally it comes down to the
2:51
point that with drones they would have
2:55
all been killed pretty much 90% of them
2:59
before they got anywhere near landing
3:02
even on the Iranian coast as mountainous
3:05
and awkward terrain as it is. So we have
3:08
and also of course we've seen that by
3:12
Iran controlling the straight of Amuse
3:15
which the United States for all its uh
3:18
prowess or what it claimed to have
3:20
prowess with regards to its naval
3:22
capabilities and that Iran didn't have a
3:25
navy which it doesn't Iran's able to
3:28
still be in control of the straight of
3:31
there's nothing the United States can do
3:33
and not least as we also and I made this
3:36
point for years that aircraft craft
3:38
carriers are useless now and they're
3:39
sitting ducks because of course we had
3:42
the advent of hypersonic missiles which
3:45
the west doesn't have which the Chinese
3:48
has the Iranians have the Russians have
3:51
etc and they rendered aircraft carriers
3:54
useless which is why the United States
3:57
moved them hundreds of miles out into
3:59
the Indian oceans so they were out of
4:01
the range of hypersonic missiles that
4:04
Iran could have caused massive damage or
4:07
destruction to their naval fleet. And
4:11
and also of course having all these
4:13
military bases are now largely pointless
4:15
because Iran struck practically all of
4:18
them and cause massive devastation to US
4:21
bases in the entirety of West Asia,
4:25
struck the Middle East. So that alone
4:28
demonstrates how modern warfare is is
4:32
changed out of all recognition. And it's
4:34
why when people keep saying or keep
4:37
being told Europe wants to go to war
4:40
with Russia or Russia wants to go to war
4:42
with Europe. Well, how's Europe going to
4:44
fight a war with Russia? What? With a
4:47
huge standing army that will be
4:49
massacred almost immediately? What? With
4:51
tanks? With armored personnel vehicles?
4:54
With they they have no capability to
4:57
fight a war in the next 5 years, 10
5:00
years, or ever. Never mind that Russia's
5:03
has the most advanced nuclear arsenal in
5:05
the world. And equally, what's Russia
5:08
going to do? Invade Europe with a
5:10
standing army that will equally be
5:14
with with drones. And this is why people
5:17
keep believing, well, Russia should just
5:20
send in half a million military
5:22
personnel and end the war that way in
5:24
Ukraine. Well, they could try and do it,
5:26
but how many how many of those 500,000
5:29
will probably end up dead? I'd say at
5:33
That is not good optics for for Russia
5:36
to sit there and go, "Well, I'll tell
5:38
you what, we'll we'll just sacrifice
5:42
uh military personnel to end a war." And
5:45
that that alone is is a huge shift that
5:49
has happened in the last 5 years. If you
5:52
went back 5 years ago before the Ukraine
5:54
war started and said, "This is how
5:57
modern warfare works, people would have
5:59
looked at you and gone, I can't believe
6:01
this." But that's because new
6:02
technologies being developed on the fly
6:06
quite literally. Something happens, they
6:08
one side or the other starts developing
6:10
new technology. This has been
6:12
irrefutably the case for at least the
6:15
last 2 or 3 years. So that alone changes
6:19
the whole emphasis. And I'll give way to
6:21
Ken and then we have to get on to the
6:23
issue of other things that have
6:25
demonstrated why modern warfare is
6:28
completely different.
6:31
>> Yeah, I want to give just a quick
6:33
historical thing going back to World War
6:34
I. You know, World War I killed tens of
6:37
millions, but that still wasn't enough
6:39
to scare uh Europe or, you know, in many
6:43
portions of the world away from war. So,
6:46
it was just a 20-year ceasefire until
6:49
the next war came about. And then we had
6:52
the advent of nuclear weapons. And
6:53
nuclear weapons changed the game the
6:55
same way drones change the game uh
6:58
today. And asymmetrical warfare, which I
7:00
know we're going to get into here in a
7:02
in a bit, but take a look at what
7:05
happened. There was the the US mindset
7:09
of of bombing campaigns. While we had
7:11
linebacker two and linebacker one in
7:14
Vietnam, that didn't make them
7:16
capitulate. Where they had bombing
7:18
campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan, they
7:21
didn't capitulate. They were there 20
7:23
years and accomplished nothing. Now with
7:25
Iran, they thought they had air
7:28
superiority in bombing campaigns and it
7:30
they ended up really losing in the long
7:33
run. So, the old way of fighting, you're
7:36
not going to see um and this is
7:39
something else that came out of World
7:40
War II is superpowers were never going
7:43
to face each other. And Europe as a
7:45
whole is considered a superpower. It's
7:48
always going to be through proxies. It's
7:49
always going to be through skirmishes.
7:52
It's going to be where the superpowers
7:54
go after the smaller countries that
7:56
really can't uh can't work. But over
7:59
time that warfare in itself changed and
8:03
Europe and and I you see this I think
8:05
especially both with Europe and
8:07
especially the United States whether
8:09
their state department, their president,
8:12
Congress etc. Statecraft is done through
8:15
rhetoric. Statecraft is done less
8:17
through actual military uh uh
8:24
>> Yeah, absolutely. And then we so we come
8:26
on to the fact that now having a massive
8:29
standing army having huge amounts of
8:31
tanks, fighter jets, whatever is rather
8:34
meaningless. And also
8:36
standard ballistic missiles are useless
8:39
as well. The the question now is as the
8:42
United States is finding out by China
8:44
putting in restrictions on on refined
8:48
rare earths by putting restrictions on
8:51
gallium and geranium the United States
8:53
militarily can't manufacture any weapons
8:56
anyway because they lack the essential
9:00
resources. It's also why if if you don't
9:03
have access to semiconductors, you don't
9:05
have access to lithium, for example,
9:07
your military is now completely useless.
9:11
So people keep framing things and
9:14
continuing to do so as though
9:16
traditional warfare still has any
9:18
relevance. It absolutely doesn't. We
9:21
don't live in the days of the Roman
9:22
Empire that conquered lands with these
9:24
huge legions, etc. And the I mean the
9:27
world's changed and it's changed so
9:30
radically in in a very short space of
9:32
time. And you're not going to conquer
9:35
nations anymore by occupying their
9:37
territory. You control them by stopping
9:40
them having access to what they need.
9:42
Cuz here's the other thing. Without a
9:44
modern economy now, given all the
9:47
technological advancement, it's one
9:49
thing not having access to energy, but
9:52
if you don't have access to to lithium,
9:54
you don't have access to rare earths,
9:56
you you don't have access to to
10:00
then your your whole economy will
10:03
capitulate. you won't be able to fight a
10:05
war on on technologically because you
10:07
won't have the raw materials to
10:10
manufacture even drones
10:13
and and and yes, so whilst energy has
10:16
always been part of that and you do need
10:19
energy uh to to fight wars, it isn't
10:23
anymore just about energy. Yeah, wars
10:26
were fought over energy and empires
10:29
collapsed because they didn't have it.
10:30
We know this. and glo the the global
10:33
economy does function around energy but
10:36
the 21st century now and particularly I
10:40
would say in the last five years there's
10:42
a whole list of strategic resources now
10:45
if you don't have them you're in big
10:47
trouble including and it's worth
10:49
reiterating lithium cobalt nickel
10:52
uranium rare earths semiconductors you
10:56
even need access to data you even need
10:59
access to fresh water now because
11:01
without that you can't manufacture data
11:04
centers for example and modern warfare
11:07
will use uh information and information
11:12
is being processed now in real time to
11:16
make decisions as to what you need to do
11:18
tomorrow or next week. This is why
11:21
countries are racing to secure supply
11:24
chains, mines, manufacturing
11:27
capabilities. This is not a coincidence.
11:32
And therefore on on that basis, we have
11:36
that warfare in the future is going to
11:39
have anything to do with standing armies
11:41
and blowing each other up with with with
11:44
weapons. That isn't how wars will be
11:46
fought. China has demonstrated that it
11:49
can cause absolute mayhem to unfriendly
11:52
nations on the planet by not giving them
11:55
access to things like rare earth which
12:00
let's face it everything uses them
12:02
nearly. Even phones, wind turbines,
12:07
military equipment, missile guidance
12:09
systems, even fighter jets for goodness
12:12
sake utilize them. without that mon
12:15
technology stops grinds to a halt also
12:19
hence why the United States was trying
12:20
to put restrictions on China with
12:22
regards to semiconductors
12:25
why because everything needs
12:27
semiconductors more than ever including
12:30
military system including AI I mean yes
12:33
it has done it's not a recent thing in
12:35
that regard but it's accelerating and
12:38
expanding enormously
12:42
and and therefore for the whole
12:44
principle of warfare is changing and
12:46
there is an argument now to say we are
12:48
not going to see traditional warfare
12:51
ever again. That's a bit of a bold
12:54
statement and okay there's you can
12:57
always argue about the risk of nuclear
13:00
war. I've always made the point as far
13:01
as I'm concerned it will never happen.
13:03
But the argument that anyone's going to
13:05
fight a traditional war like people
13:07
think Europe and Russia will do is
13:09
nonsense. This is never going to happen
13:14
No. And I think we have uh when we take
13:16
a look at uh the US's incursion into
13:18
Iraq, whether it's Desert Shield, Desert
13:20
Storm, and then later the Iraq war,
13:23
Afghanistan, yeah, that was probably the
13:26
last uh traditional style war we were
13:30
going to we were going to see uh going
13:32
forward. Drones were uh something in in
13:35
mind's eyes. satellite uh technology and
13:37
the ability to um utilize uh
13:46
um armaments certainly has expanded and
13:50
exploded and we don't even know what's
13:52
going to happen with AI getting involved
13:53
here in the next 5 10 20 years. But I
13:57
think uh another key point that has to
14:00
be put out is something that Iran did
14:03
that carries over for what you were
14:08
The world is changing not from
14:11
traditional warfare but to asymmetrical
14:13
warfare hitting them where they hurt. If
14:16
you can't face them with their ar arms
14:19
or their personnel then you hit them
14:21
economically. The US has been using the
14:23
dollar, has been using sanctions, has
14:26
been using uh freezing assets to their
14:29
benefit to try to make nations
14:31
capitulate to their will.
14:34
Well, China now has reversed that and is
14:36
doing the same thing. Uh, one of the
14:38
reasons that Japan got into World War II
14:42
was the fact that the United States cut
14:44
off their access to oil and rubber and
14:47
other necessary things. So they had to
14:48
go looking into China and get an
14:51
expansionary uh mindset. We're seeing
14:55
we're seeing that around the world is if
14:57
Iran can cut off and they finally did
15:00
access to the Straits of Hormuz, it will
15:02
shut down the entire global economy.
15:06
And the United States is not in any
15:08
position anymore, nor is Europe, nor is
15:11
any other nation within the Middle East
15:14
to stop Iran from doing this. So
15:17
there's a term in warfare known as force
15:23
where an unknown factor has entered that
15:26
is untenable and it can't be stopped and
15:30
this is what happens. Drones are a form
15:33
of force majour. Uh cutting off oil and
15:36
energy is a form of force majour. Uh
15:39
ddollarization is a form of force
15:41
majour. It's all under the umbrella of
15:44
asymmetrical warfare. So, you're going
15:46
to see more and more of this type of
15:49
warfare take place, nation against
15:52
nation uh rather than uh tanks and men
15:56
and aircraft on a battlefield.
15:59
>> Yeah, absolutely. And I think another
16:01
point worth making and there is an
16:03
obvious statement about that water is
16:06
the essence of life. Of course, it is.
16:09
But and it's not just agriculture that
16:11
depends on water. Industry does. Power
16:17
You could see future conflicts would
16:20
revolve around accessibility to to
16:22
rivers, reservoirs, fresh water supply.
16:25
I mean, the Middle East is a great
16:28
example of this, although an extreme
16:29
one. If as Iran does carry out its
16:33
threat and we have to absolutely hope it
16:35
doesn't to destroy desalination plants,
16:38
those regions are uninhabitable for for
16:42
who knows how long and then you would
16:44
have the biggest refugee crisis in human
16:47
history. Again, that is how warfare
16:51
would change in the future. It is not as
16:53
I say and that those kind of things can
16:57
be targeted from afar with precision
17:00
missile capabilities with missile
17:02
technology the west or middle eastern
17:05
countries can't challenge in in any way
17:09
shape or form. The other thing of course
17:11
is you know there's you it instead of
17:14
actually going to war and having
17:18
economic leverage if you have dominating
17:21
mining sector you control refining you
17:24
control manufacturing transportation
17:28
power how it's distributed across
17:30
networks the list goes on and on. then
17:34
then you know and you have access to
17:39
then you're in a position to be able to
17:41
survive future warfare which isn't about
17:45
standing armies and and what we've said
17:48
we're not saying there isn't the risk of
17:50
warfare in the future we're saying it
17:52
bears no resemblance to traditional
17:55
warfare and this is why China has spent
17:58
the last two decades signing agreements
18:02
with countries ries all over the world
18:04
for accessibility to resources. Why?
18:07
Because they understood the future were
18:10
and to protect your nation was to do
18:14
with having accessibility to resources
18:18
and having supply chains and having
18:20
robust relations with countries where
18:23
you can work together because then that
18:26
stops you being vulnerable. One of the
18:28
reasons why Russia, you can't defeat
18:31
is because they have the biggest
18:32
resource base in the world and their
18:35
energy secure and food secure. How can
18:37
you defeat a nation on that basis? You
18:44
Indeed. And I think one final uh point I
18:47
want to make is if you really take a
18:50
look at uh warfare as a whole throughout
18:52
history, the repercussions and
18:55
consequences of it are longerlasting
18:58
than just making a nation capitulate and
19:01
that's that. Uh after World War II, we
19:04
had a an iron curtain separate uh west
19:08
from east in Europe. And we had of
19:10
course uh the United States and and the
19:12
Soviet Union facing off creating pro uh
19:16
mayhem with proxy wars all throughout
19:18
for about 60 70 well no about 45 years
19:23
until 1991. Then of course what we have
19:26
uh going in Korea. Well, the Korean War
19:29
ended in 1952 or 1953 and we pretty much
19:34
have had it divided ever since. The same
19:36
way across the board, the Yugoslavia is
19:39
still separated into four regions where
19:42
anything could break out. So um most
19:45
conflicts are never something that ends
19:48
and that's it. Ukraine and thei and
19:51
Russia when they finally come to some
19:53
sort of end are still going to have the
19:56
animosities that they had before and who
19:59
long knows how long that's going to last
20:01
at a at a scale. Uh the Middle East now
20:04
is going to have to shift and change
20:06
over. So there's always wide ranging
20:10
uh consequences for every single
20:12
conflict that most nations never take uh
20:17
and they themselves can change the
20:20
entire geopolitical landscape
20:24
>> Yeah, absolutely. So where what can we
20:26
conclude from this? The contest to to to
20:30
win a war in inverted commas in 2026 and
20:35
going into the future is access access
20:38
to resources, energy, minerals,
20:46
you know, technology,
20:50
materials. The country that has secures
20:53
those resources is going to shape the
20:56
future because and you don't have to
20:58
shape the future blowing things up.
20:59
They'll shape the global economy.
21:01
They're going to influence and change
21:03
international politics or geopolitics.
21:06
You're going to define technological
21:08
process. And it and you don't need to
21:11
invade countries anymore to weaken them
21:13
or destroy them. You just simply control
21:17
what it can't manage to live with
21:19
without. Sorry. That's the big huge
21:22
shift and that's come about really in
21:25
the last 5 years. The wars of the future
21:28
won't really be fought on battle fields
21:30
the way they were. They're going to be
21:32
fought by by those who own and have
21:36
access to mine mines to resources in
21:42
in supply chains in shipping routes. are
21:46
you know big play and big changes
21:49
happening in the northern sea route with
21:51
the Russians and the Chinese
21:54
and ultimately all of this is over
21:56
accessibility to resources
21:59
that effectively will power
22:02
civilization itself way way into the
22:05
future. That's the big change. I don't
22:08
know whether the United States realizes
22:11
this yet. The Chinese and the Russians
22:13
have realized this. And I would say the
22:16
Chinese more than even the Russians in
22:19
recent years, but in China's case, it's
22:20
been very obvious to them for 20 years
22:24
And with that, we end today's podcast.
22:27
Thank you very much for listening, for
22:28
all your ongoing support, which we
22:30
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22:43
that, I'll say goodbye.