Harrisburg City Planning Board Meeting - 4/1/2026

Sorry 640

and

receive the February 4th and March 4th

meeting

changes positions.

Motion to approve both months minutes.

>> Is there a second?

>> Second.

>> Second for approval of the February

2016. All those in favor by saying I

abension

carries.

Under old business

amendments

signage regulations accepted 7-325

bureau to revise and streamline or

support

practices

at least assignments designed

compatible.

Yeah, I think maybe uh in the interest

of uh the applicant's time here, we move

this to the end of the meeting and that

way we can uh take care of the um other

business, the zoning relief request.

>> I make a motion that we do that we move

this to the end of business. Second.

>> Second.

by saying I

>> I

application 13.

>> Um, is Missa here? No, I guess she's

not. I guess we'll we can move this to

the end if if uh she shows up during the

meeting.

>> Second

item number.

I

remember

this is done.

Uh so the applicant is proposing to

convert the existing single family

dwelling into a two-unit multif family

dwelling which requires zoning hearing

board approval of special exceptions for

the proposed use and relief from the

off- streetet parking requirements per

section 7-305.7

and 7-327.6

of the zoning code respectively and

variances for relief from the density

regulations and specific criteria in

sections 7-307.3

and 7-309.2V 2V of the zoning code

respectively. The property at 40 North

17th Street is a 03 acre lot featuring a

three-story 264 square foot structure

which was constructed circuit 1900.

Property is bounded by Helen Street to

the north, the uh North 17th Street to

the east, the property at 38 North 17th

Street to the south and a narrow grosser

alley to the west. The semi- detached

structure features elements of the Queen

an architectural style. Character

defining features include the brick

facade, the substantial front porch, the

oral windows on the front and side

elevations, the two-story porch on the

rear elevation, the large wooden

cornises with substantial brackets at

top the porch and second floor of the

front and side elevations, the prominent

dormer on the front elevation featuring

a turd and metal finineal, and the

manered roof clad and real slate

shingles, which features a decorative

brick chimney along the side elevation.

The main entrance features a panel door

with half view pane featuring simulated

divided light mountains set within a

simple frame and topped with a simple

wooden transom. It is accessed by an

elevated porch featuring wooden tongue

and groove floorboards, square spindle

wooden railings, and wooden panled

columns. Although some of these elements

are deteriorated, there is a similar

entryway at the rear at the rear

accessible via a small set a small a set

of small concrete stairs featuring a

panled metal door topped with a simple

wooden transom. It is sheltered by a

deteriorating second floor metal deck.

Fenistration features windows in a

variety of sizes, arrangements, and

conditions. Most windows appear to be

one over one, although all of the first

floor windows and the second floor

window at the rear deck are currently

covered, presumably to prevent

unauthorized access. A two-story oral

window on the front elevation features a

window on each face of each floor. The

window is topped by a hexagonal tur clad

real slate shingles and topped with a

decorative metal final. The oral windows

on the second floor of the side

elevation likewise features a window at

each face and is topped by the prominent

wooden corners featuring dentals that

run along the length of the side

elevation. The third floor dormer on the

side elevation is topped with a

prominent pediment with small brackets

that is clad and real slate shingles.

Structure features flat rubber roofs

above the manser roofs. Although the

property is deteriorated and features

some unsympathetic alterations as a

semi- detached structure, the building

mirrors architectural features of the

attached structures to the south and

generally reflects the massing and

design of other properties in the

surrounding neighborhood. As such, the

building makes a substantial

contribution to the architectural and

historic character of the streetscape

and neighborhood.

The planning bureau staff recommends the

request be approved with the following

conditions. If granted zoning approval

to move forward with the project is

proposed, the applicant shall allow the

codes bureau to perform a comprehensive

inspection to identify any outstanding

code violations and will receive

approval for all necessary city permits

prior to receiving a certificate of

occupancy.

The planning bureau recommends the

applicant retain historic and

architectural features of the property

such as the oral windows, real slate

shingles, and metal final at top the

front turret to ensure the property

enhances its contribution to the

aesthetics of the block. And finally,

because the rear yard cannot accommodate

legal parking spaces, the planning

bureau recommends the applicant enclose

this space with a six foot high fence to

enhance security for tenants and prevent

unauthorized access to the site. Flame

bureau staff recommends the request be

approved for the following reasons. The

property has experienced extended

vacancy over the past decade, resulting

in significant deterioration and a

general lack of basic elements such as

walls and utilities that threatens the

long-term viability of the structure and

potentially the stability of the

attached row home. As such, there is

justification for the allowance of more

units than would be permitted by Wright.

The project will reconstruct a blighting

influence and attractive nuisance into

new units that will contribute to the

housing inventory in the city generally

and the neighborhood specifically and

rehabilitate an historically and

architecturally significant building and

represents a significant improvement

over expected future conditions should

the property continue to remain vacant.

Finally, the applicant advance the

project advances the purpose of the RM

zoning district provided in chapter

7-305.4C 4C of the code as it provides a

development at medium densities that

will not adversely affect the stability

of the area and advances chapter

7-301.27

of the zoning code by protecting the

residential neighborhood and providing

diverse housing opportunities.

>> Thank you Jeff. Is this on the last

agenda?

>> Yes, this was on the March agenda.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh could you state your name, address,

and relationship to the project?

>> Sure. Thanks, Jeeoff. My name is Steve

Albrin. I'm from McNiss and uh I am the

I'm representing the applicant who

wishes he could be here tonight, but

because of the scheduling change, uh

he's on a spring break vacation with his

kids out of the country. So, having a

lot more fun than us.

>> Um

you heard the uh staff report. Are you

acceptable of the conditions?

>> We are. Yeah.

>> Okay. Uh, did you want to add anything

to your report or

>> Well, Jeff does a great job of of kind

of covering everything, so he didn't

miss anything that I was going to bring

up. Um, if you guys have any questions

about the property specifically, I'm

happy to try to answer those.

>> Okay. Yes. I have no questions at this

time. Know you're going to have a look

like a lot of work, a lot of money put

in this. So, good luck on that. Um,

Commissioner.

>> Yeah. Uh, yeah. First of all, yeah, I

don't think it's too dense. Two units

there doesn't offend me. And if we don't

approve this, the house is going to fall

down. So, you got my support.

>> No questions.

>> Yeah, I concur. It's pretty

straightforward here.

>> No questions.

>> Likewise. No questions.

With that, I'll go to the public. You

have any questions or concerns? Please

stand. State your name and address. I'll

start to my left or against the project

metal.

No one on my right. Okay. M. I get a

motion.

>> Motion to approve with conditions.

>> Is there a second?

>> Second.

>> Been moved a second to approve this with

the conditions. All those in favor by

saying I

>> I

>> opposed.

Motion carried.

>> Thank you very much for your time.

Thanks, J.

>> By the way, this is this is your guys.

It was I think left over from I think it

might have been for the North Six Street

thing that we didn't end up doing.

Item number four, this is a variance and

special session application for 1854

through 1861 street zone RM

establish a multi family dwelling used

through consolidation of multiple plots

with indiv residence into a single lot

to construct required off street parking

near yard set. The applicant has

requested a continuence to the May 2020

26

planning commission meeting and building

her hearing board meetings.

Um commissioners, can I get a motion to

continue this?

>> So moved.

>> It's been moved. Is there a second?

>> Second.

moved a second to continue item number

four to the next meeting.

Item number five is the

>> I got to have a vote.

>> All those in favor state by saying I

>> I

>> opposed.

Um item number five, this is a variance

and special exception application for

923 North 18 Street which is on resident

needing density. It's filed by Robert

Jun with Harford Rent LLC

is requesting the relief necessary to

convert the existing single family

dwelling into a six unit multif family

dwelling and to request from the LC

parking.

>> Uh yes. So the applicant has converted

the single family dwelling into a

six-unit multif family dwelling which

requires only hearing board approval of

special exceptions for the proposed use

and relief from the off- streetet

parking requirements per section 7-305.7

and 7-327.6

of the zoning code respectively and

variances for relief from the density

regulations and specific criteria and

section 7-307.3

and 7-309.2V of the zoning code

respectively. This is an after the-act

application. Property at 923 North 18th

Street is a 03 acre lot featuring a

three-story 3639 foot structure which

was constructed in 1920.

The property is bounded by Boa Street to

the north, the property at 1801 Boa

Street to the east, the property at 921

North, 18th Street to the south, and

North 18th Street to the west. The

semi-attached structure features

elements of the Second Empire

architectural style. Character defining

features include the varying facade

treatments including painted brick,

vinyl siding and wooden vertical wooden

siding, the substantial front porch, the

building projections on the first and

second floors of the side elevation

including turrets on the corners and a

metal porch. Prominent corners above the

second floor featuring dentals and

brackets and the manered roof featuring

dormers and brick chimneys. There are

three main entrances on the first floor.

two which provide direct direct access

to the first floor units and one that

provides access to the stairwell on to

the upper floors and each features a

paneled fiberglass door. The entry to

the front unit on the first floor is

accessed by a simple concrete porch.

Administration features windows in a

variety of sizes, pane configurations,

and settings. Most appear to be one over

one. At several locations on the first

floor, it appears that previous windows

may have been infilled with vinyl

siding. The second floor features a

variety of window settings, including

two topped with substantial pediments on

the front elevation, three in a turret,

three arched windows, and three in a

semi-ircular o oral window on the side

elevation, and seven dormers in the

mansion roof featuring pediments of

varying sizes and styles. The man roof

and dormer cheeks along the front

elevation are clad and real slate

shingles, while those along the side

roof and dormer cheeks are clad in

asphalt shingles. The property is

otherwise topped with a flat rubber

roof. Although there have been

unsympathetic alterations over the years

uh as a semi- detached structure, the

building mirrors architectural features

of its pair to the south and generally

reflects the massian design of other

properties in the surrounding

neighborhood. As such, the building does

contribute to the architectural and

historic character of the streetscape

and neighborhood.

The planning bureau staff uh recommends

the request be approved uh with the

following conditions. The applicant must

remove the illegal parking installed

along the side of the building which

replaced the required sidewalk.

Construct a new ADA compliant sidewalk

with tree pits and or planting strip and

construct a new code compliant curb to

prevent sidewalk encroachment. Uh the

applicant should consider the provision

or subsidizing oferta passes to

residents. Given the size and

configuration of the units, it is likely

that not all residents would own

vehicles, and ensuring their access to

the bus network will reduce the need for

personal vehicles and provide tenants

with mobility, affordable mobility

options. Planning bureau staff

recommends the request be approved for

the following reasons. The property

experienced extended vacancy over

approximately 20 years from 1997 to

2016, resulting in significant

deterioration that made the structure an

uninhabitable and dangerous nuisance and

threatened the physical stability of the

attached buildings along North 18th

Street and Boa Street. and necessitated

significant investment to address the

structural and livability concerns of

the property. As such, there is

justification for the allowance of more

units than would be permitted by Wright.

And the project reconstructed a vite a

blading influence at a conspicuously at

a conspicuous corner property into new

units that contribute to the housing

inventory in the city and neighborhood

and represents a significant improvement

over the potential alternatives of

demolition or collapse.

>> Thank you, Jeff. Could you state your

name, address, and relationship to the

project?

>> My name is Robert Schulz Jr. I'm sole

member of HBG Rent LLC. I am the uh the

owner and

contractor, licensed electrician,

plumber, and designer of the uh the

building there. The building was

collapsing when we first purchased it

off of a tax sale formerly owned by

Shephard Mission. And um the the roof

had collapsed down through the uh the

third, second, and first floors down

into the basement. Took us seven

dumpsters and a team of about 20 guys

with buckets to get everything out of

there. And then it was then rebuilt,

reframed from the ground up to be a

six-unit building. All permits were

pulled accordingly. I was required to

get a uh fire safety engineer plan for

uh fire suppression system which was

installed. We had numerous inspections

by the city codes department. Uh the

city codes department was um actually

included in every every step of this

this design including the parking that

that Jeff just discussed. Um I had

numerous inspections. I even had uh the

chief of the inspection uh department,

the codes department, Dave Patton, come

out and conduct a little class out there

to demonstrate to people how service

panels and and plumbing was supposed to

be done. And he was most most gracious

and and his time in doing that. Um I

also had the um uh the head of the fire

department, the fire chief was out there

to uh to certify the uh the the fire

suppression system and the water

pressure. And and my point here is that

we we've followed the the steps every

step of the way. And because this is the

first of five that I will be presenting

here this evening and also we've I was

here a month ago, you may recall um of

the 90 buildings that I have renovated

in the city of Harrisburg from 2010 to

2018 when I stopped stopped renovating.

um

under recent guidelines to to do like a

buyer's notification. I think uh uh Jeff

was brought in in the in the process of

of uh permits being being applied and

and properties being sold so that he

would be able to review what was

happening here in accordance and and

compare that to his records. Uh and in

the process here earlier this year, he

told me that we were having a problem

with at least one of them. I said,

"Well, I'm going to give you a list of

all these others here and let you go

through and tell me which ones we have a

problem with." We wound up with a

problem with seven out of out of those

buildings. We prided ourselves here in

the last

I guess the eight years when I was in

process of doing this with with taking

the worst of the worst. Fired buildings,

you know, HFD written in big bold

letters everywhere to try to try and do

our best, especially up there in the

hill. We renovated 35 properties over

there uh in that area and I think went a

long way toward

keeping that that that area uh improving

through what was a difficult time uh

post economic issues there in 2010. Um

I don't think that um

I don't think that I have any issues uh

with uh Jeff's recommendations here in

in terms of parking. I think that sounds

reasonable. It's something that probably

would have been approved initially at

the time anyway

and and and I'm assuming that that's how

you're viewing this is this is that this

is something that would have been

approved 10 years ago had this been done

in the right way. Um so I I don't think

that that's going to be an issue for me.

I just want the uh I wanted to get all

of that out because this is like I say

the first of five tonight and there's

bound to be a question is how in the

world did we get here because I'm I was

in the same same boat. Uh and so here we

are uh trying to correct the records and

set set everything straight and make it

right.

>> Uh are you acceptable of the conditions?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. my only concerns so far and and

you've touched upon it and Jeff maybe

you can explain the parking a little

more how you satisfy those parking

spaces.

>> Yeah. So, I mean, as you can see from

the photos, like, and I don't know

who might have authorized this, um, but

they basically replace the sidewalk and,

uh, curb and, uh,

at one point in the past, uh, with head

sparking parking spaces that go like

pretty much right up to the building.

Um, which I may I believe may have been

responsible for, um, a car hitting the

building at some point in the past. I

car run into the building. So um and

basically we you can't have a legal

parking space that's you know replacing

sidewalks like that and and then also

occupies the public right of way. Like

from my discussions with former city

engineers I basically say if any part of

a parking space is in u the public

rightway it's public space. It's not

like a dedicated private space for for

individuals. So seeing that uh the

configuration that they had out there um

I just thought well if we remove those

what is that I mean it would certainly

be an improvement for people walking

around and as and as the planning

commissioners may remember there's a

development going on across the street

there uh the Woodward Lost building a 48

unit um uh senior living facility so

there's going to need to be people

having space to like walk around uh the

neighborhood um so to ensure that that

sidewalk is reconstructed um we added

this condition and as I was going back

to look at uh the frontage of the

property along Boa Street um I

determined that you could um basically

this removed three publicly accessible

on street spaces. So it was like a net

benefit of a net gain of three spaces

but um removing those would still

recreate three on street parking spaces

there. Um and again you know one of the

things that we had recommended uh was to

look at the uh subsidation of or

subsidization of uh CAT or SERTA uh

parking passes because that is one of

the um criteria for uh granting of

relief from off streetet parking. Um,

and so that's why we included uh that

condition as well, which is not

something we usually do, but I think in

uh this particular context with the

removal of those spaces um and the

reconstruction of on street parking, um

this would be a way to maybe uh offset

um any uh of the other spaces that any

other parking demand that may be left

over and to hopefully address maybe some

concerns of either the planning

commission or zoning hearing board.

>> Okay. So, he's required initially to

have six spaces or seven?

>> Uh, they'd be required to have seven.

There's only six there currently, I

think, but they'd be required by the

zoning code to have seven.

>> And that satisfy,

>> excuse me,

>> that satisfy your requirements.

>> Uh, this if they had seven off street

parking spaces, it would, but they'll

they'd only basically be creating three

public accessible by removing the

parking that's there now, which is again

not approvable parking. I don't I don't

think the city engineer ever took a look

at that or anything. Um so uh as a way

again in theory you'd be creating three

new spaces of on street parking where

some of the parking could occur from uh

tenants. Uh but uh again I uh uh added

the additional um recommendation that

the applicant consider the provision of

certa passes uh for tenants of the

building so that they still had

mobility. uh when I was out there and in

the times I've been out there to like

the adjacent property um uh where the

Woodward Lofts is being constructed, I

haven't seen all the spaces being in use

at the same time. Now, I don't know if

somebody's at a job or whatever. Um but

it doesn't look like there's a need for

all six of the spaces that are there

now.

>> I'm concerned because

um the building they're putting up now,

neighborhoods, neighbors were concerned

about parking with that building. So,

that's why I'm saying

will his treat parking problems again?

>> So the other the Woodward loss uh

project um does have all of the required

parking uh on site. Uh that was uh I

think they had they were required to

have 48 spaces. Uh so they did have 48

on site which is actually more than they

were required to have because it was

low-income housing. Um so they are

meeting their requirements there uh on

that end. Um and

uh you know I think uh I think we would

anticipate that there would not be any

um spillover parking from the uh senior

housing facility and so there should be

parking for tenants of this building on

the street.

>> So he he can probably use their parking

lot.

>> I mean he could. I mean they he would

have to he would have to engage with

that owner to see whether they'd be

willing to lease spaces to him.

>> Talking about his parking overflow.

Yeah. Right.

>> Okay.

Questions and concerns.

>> Yes. Mr. Sh. Yeah. We're, you know,

familiar with the background here and I

think it's going to be reflected in some

of the decisions we make tonight. Uh,

and you got my support on this one. That

said, this is the strangest application

we've ever had. Converting a single unit

to six.

I never thought we'd ever even make it

this far, but and then we're asking to

remove parking. I mean, it's those are

two things we never do. So, no, you got

you got my vote, nevertheless. So,

>> and and I would just note that it was

probably multiple units prior to the its

current deterior or its former

deterioration. Um but when you when a

non-conforming use has been vacated for

a year, uh the property reverts to the

underlying um allowances of the zoning

code. So that's kind of why I consider

it a single family.

>> Yeah. I I don't think anybody actually

did. I think there were there were

probably multiple units, but there's

nothing in the record that I could find

that would specify how many units might

have been there before. There might have

also been I mean with those larger

windows especially on the side there

might have been a commercial use on the

first floor too. So it's a little tough

to tell and the um history record was

not very substantial.

Commission,

>> I have nothing.

>> Commissioner,

>> no, I don't have any questions.

>> Commissioner Jordan,

>> no questions.

>> Vincent, um, I mean, maybe maybe for

Jeffrey, the only thing

do we know like kind of root cause of

how that that this lapse happens and are

we doing anything on our side to prevent

that from happening? Yeah, I mean it's I

I don't know that we'll ever really know

because um all of many of the staff who

were here when this stuff was being

approved, the former director and co and

deputy director are no longer here. Um

and they've been retired for several

years now. Uh both of them. So uh you

know, it might have just been

that was kind of the way things were

done back then. uh where it was more

handled by the codes bureau instead of

the planning bureau. I know before I

started there there was about eight

months where there was nobody in the

planning bureau. Um so it might have

been what the staff was doing at that

time to just manage and kind of move

stuff forward so stuff didn't get backed

up. Uh so uh but as to whether we're

addressing it, you know, as uh Mr. Sches

uh referenced, um the new flood plane

zoning certificate is kind of what

brought this to light. Um because as I

looked at this and he said, you know,

we're transferring this from one uh uh

entity to another. Uh we're going, you

know, this is six units. I look back in

the history and if I see that that

change occurs after the adoption of the

current zoning code and I know that the

zoning relief was not received, that's

when I'm bringing them before the boards

uh so that they can uh formalize that.

And in some cases uh like in this case,

there may be justification for it. In

other cases there may be less. So

>> with that I'll go to the public

for against this project.

I'll start to my left.

Could I get a motion?

>> Motion to approve conditions.

>> Is there a second?

>> Second.

All those in favor say by saying I

>> I

>> oppose.

Okay. Item number six. This is a special

application.

exception of application for 1301 varian

street which is an RM

here

to request the zoning relief necessary

to construct a mixed use building on

site featuring a threeminut multi

glowing a topic coffee shop cafe and

personal services space and to request

relief from the off street parking

department.

>> Uh thank you. And I should note that

this is actually a variance and special

exception. There is a variance component

to this uh for uh the encroachment um of

the uh parking into the rear yard set

back there. Um, so the applicant is

proposing to construct a two-story

mixeduse building on site featuring a

three-unit multif family dwelling at top

a coffee shop, cafe, and personal

services space and to request relief

from the off- streetet parking

requirements which require zoning

hearing board approval of special

exceptions for the proposed multif

family dwelling and personal services

uses and relief from the off street

parking requirements per section 7-305.7

and 7327.6 six of the zoning code

respectively and a variance for relief

from the prohibition of prohibition

regarding parking in setbacks per

section 7-327.9A4

of the zoning code. Property at 1301

Berry Hill Street is a.16 acre vacant

lot which previously accommodated a

large residence that had been converted

into multiple units but was demolished

in early 2007. Property still features

elements of this use, including a low

retaining wall along Berry Hill Street

and concrete access stairs along Barry

Hill Street, South 13th Street, and at

the intersection, as well as a six foot

high chain link fence along Albert

Street. The property is bounded by Barry

Hill Street to the north, the property

at 1305 Berry Hill Street to the east,

Albert Street to the south, and South

13th Street to the west. The planning

bureau staff recommends the request be

approved with the following conditions.

If granted zoning approval to move

forward with the project as proposed,

the applicant shall submit a land

development plan and receive approval

from the planning commission and city

council. Uh the applicant will be

limited to the proposed non-residential

uses outlined in the application and

cannot establish or propose other

unpermitted uses without receiving

zoning hearing board approval of the

requisite zoning relief related to both

the use and potentially relief from the

off- streetet parking requirements. Uh

the applicant must provide landscape

screening around the proposed parking

area. And finally, the applicant should

retain the large tree in the

northeastern corner of the property

unless the city arborist deems it a

danger to existing or future development

or otherwise authorizes its removal.

Plan B staff recommends the request be

approved for the following reasons. The

property has been vacant for 19 years

since the demolition of the former

residential building on site in 2007

through various economic cycles

demonstrating the need for a financially

viable proposal that may require relief

from the current zoning regulations. The

proposed development minimizes the

amount of zoning relief by proposing

uses that only require special exception

approvals and a reasonable variance

request that provides off- streetet

parking while allowing development of

the site for more beneficial uses. Uh

the property is a conspicuous gateway

into the Allison Hill neighborhood but

has remained vacant for almost two

decades, severely underutilizing a

prominent location. Proposed development

will add new housing to the neighborhood

in one, two, and threebedroom

configurations while creating spaces for

small businesses that will cater to the

needs of existing local residents. And

finally, the project will improve the

pedestrian experience for neighborhood

residents by replacing a vacant

unmaintained lot with a mixeduse

building that will be activated 24 hours

a day and customers of the businesses

who will populate the building frontages

along building Berry Hill Street and

South 13th Street.

>> Thank you, Jeff. Could you state your

name?

address and relationship to the project.

>> My name?

>> Yes.

>> Oh, and make sure you're pressing the

button there so the light turns green.

There you go.

>> This you hear me?

>> My name is Juan Silva. I'm the

consultant and designer. I'm helping

here uh my friend in the development of

this project.

>> Can you speak English? Can

>> him?

>> Yeah.

I just need your name.

>> Spanish.

>> Okay. You can say his name.

>> Uh yes. Um I know the the pretty well.

If you need any clarification,

you need to answer something.

You gentlemen heard the staff report the

conditions. Are you acceptable of those

conditions?

>> Yes, those are

>> commissioners. I have no questions

except I'm still

um

concerned about parking. You see, I

guess you said they have enough spaces.

Are you

>> So, they're required to have uh 15

parking spaces uh for all of the

proposed uses that'll be uh on site. Um

they do have uh they are proposing four

on street parking spaces or sorry, off-

streetet parking spaces including the

188 space that would be required. Um

there's also um parking along the

frontage of the property on Berry Hill

Street. Uh there are two spaces there.

Uh so they'll have uh six in that

regard. And with respect to the um

different criteria for uh allowing

consideration of relief from off

streetet parking, uh when you have

complimentary uses like a residential

and business uses, uh the zoning code

allows those spaces to kind of be double

counted. Um because the presumption is

you know when the residents leave in the

uh in the morning and then staff and

customers of the businesses come and use

the spaces and then they leave and the

residents come back and will take those

spaces. It may also be the case that

residents of um of the building itself

will either be employees of the

businesses that are on the first floor

or uh patrons of the business. So they

would be kind of replacing either some

of the parking necessary for uh

customers or staff. Um, and then

additionally, uh, there are two bus

routes that run along South 13th Street,

um, right adjacent to the property. Uh,

so there are, um, options for, uh,

getting to the property other than for,

uh, other than driving. Um, and one

final note, I know the applicants

included this in their uh, case report.

They noted that there is on street

parking on either side of Berry Hill or

South 13th Street. So, it's not just the

frontage uh with the property, but uh

there are homes which front those areas,

and I didn't want to include those in

the count as it's likely that residents

of those buildings would be using those.

Um, but there is on street parking uh on

both of those uh both sides of Berry

Hill Street and on the western side of

South 13th Street um for potential

customers of the businesses to use as a

temporary measure.

>> Okay. you know, going driving down 13th

Street. You know, that's they're always

packed with parked cars because they

said residents probably have two people

>> in a house. So, that's, you know, it's

going to have problems again. So, I'll

come back to that necessarily. Uh,

commissioners, uh, your concerns

any other question to

>> Yeah, it looks like a great project. I

love seeing new construction in this

neighborhood.

>> Uh Jeffrey, what anything can be done

with that joining property in the

junkyard?

>> I mean, looks like there's plenty of

parking there.

>> We we actually uh did were we're trying

to deal with that almost maybe a decade

ago, eight years ago to 10 years ago. Um

and uh I don't know I don't want to say

too much. I don't know how much we could

say about it, but uh that did end up I

think either going to the court of

common please or potentially the PUC

based on the claimed use of the

property. Um and so I think ultimately

it was kind of taken out of the city's

hands. Um it would be a good place to

provide parking for residents or for uh

the uh this uh particular project. Um

but uh I don't I think we've we've

attempted to try and address it and uh I

think been stymied by the legal process

I believe.

>> Yeah. No further

commission.

>> I agree. It looks like a good project. I

have no comments or questions.

>> Commissioner,

>> uh yes, I also agree. It's nice to see a

vacant lot being filled in. you know,

mixed use. The coffee shop on the first

floor and apartments is great. Um,

I think the parking makes sense given

that Well, let me ask, are are you

anticipating the four or three parking

spaces for the tenants in the apartment

spaces?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, then the coffee

shop would kind of be more fluid on

street parking.

That makes sense. My only other question

is

with the

with the apartments,

it'd be the second floor. Um there's

three and then is one apartment less

than 300 square feet

>> um in in the second floor? You mean

>> the the the apartment in the middle?

>> Uh, no. No. It's a little bit over and

I'm not sure if I if we not right there.

Um, but it's it's over 300 ft.

>> I was trying to just I was just doing

some math. I wasn't It wasn't It would

be a really small apartment if it's less

than 300 square feet. I don't know if

that would,

>> you know, really make sense or be

I mean, if if they're proposing a uh a

unit that's not large enough to meet the

minimum standard by the codes bureau,

they they would not get approval and

they'd either have to reconfigure the

interior arrangement of those of that

space or potentially combine two, which

would, you know, reduce the amount of

>> deviation from the zoning code.

>> Okay. I always noted in the application

about all this going through codes

anyway. So, okay. All right. Thank you.

That answers my question.

Commissioner Jordan.

>> Um just a comment. Um I'm in favor of

the project. I think it's a good idea to

have businesses um throughout the

community so you know to go elsewhere to

have their needs met. So looks like a

good project to me.

>> Thank you.

>> Commissioner.

>> Yeah. Likewise. I think the the mix

building

for that area.

We'll go to the public again once again.

Anyone with concerns or questions,

please stand, state your name and

address. Go to my left

middle

right.

I get a motion.

>> Motion to approve conditions.

>> Is there a second?

>> Second.

>> It's been moved and second for approval

of project with conditions. All those in

favor state by saying I

>> opposed.

Objection. Motion carried.

to the end of all the business.

>> Okay.

This is special

application for 1644 Market Street RM

with Keystone Property Service. He's

requesting design relief necessary to

convert the existing single family

building to a three unit multi- dwelling

request.

>> Yep. So, uh the applicant has converted

a single family dwelling into a

three-unit multif family dwelling which

requires zoning hearing board approval

of special exceptions for the proposed

use and relief from the off street

parking requirements for section 7-305.7

and 7-327.6 six of the zoning code

respectively and variances for a relief

from the density and specific criteria

regulations in section 7-307.3

and 7-309.2V

of the zoning code respectively. This is

an after the-act application. Property

at 1644 Market Street is a 04 acre lot

featuring a three-story 2188

structure which was constructed circa

1900. Property is bounded by Ethel

Street to the north, the property at

1646 Market Street to the east, Market

Street to the south, and the property at

1642 Market Street to the west. This

detached structure features elements of

the Italian 8 architectural style.

Character defining features include the

varied facade treatments including

painted brick on the front elevation and

vertical aluminum siding and vertical

aluminum on the side elevation, the

elevated entryway, the decorative window

headers on the front elevation, and the

ornate wooden corners with sunburst

dentals and brackets, and the twotory

wooden porch on the rear elevation. The

main entrance features a panled

fiberglass infill door topped with a

simple transom and set in a prominent

wooden surround featuring projecting

panels, fluted pillisters, and a simple

pediment. It is accessed by concrete

stairs featuring metal railings.

Entrances on the second and third floors

of the rear elevation feature the same

paneled fiberglass doors accessible via

wood and metal fire escapes. Penetration

features windows in a in a one over one

pane configuration. Windows on the front

elevation feature simple wooden

surrounds, wooden sills, and decorative

wooden headers.

with engravings, dentals, and small

pediments. The structure appears topped

with flat rubber roofs. The rear yard is

small and bounded by the primary

structure and a detached cinder block

garage with a roll down door in a

deteriorated state. Although it features

unsympathetic alterations such as modern

doors and siding, a result of the

demolition of the adjacent structure and

exhibits some deterioration, the

structure mirrors architectural features

of other buildings on the block

and generally reflects the massing and

design of other properties in the

surrounding neighborhood. As such, the

property contributes to the

architectural and historic character of

the streetscape and neighborhood.

The plane bureau staff recommends the

request be approved with the following

conditions. uh the applicant should be

limited to two units on site in contrast

to other similar applications followed

by filed by the applicant. The subject

property was transferred between

entities owned by or affiliated with the

applicant and was not purchased from a

different individual entity or as part

of a ch tax judicial sale. Additionally,

granting approval for two units would

minimize deviation from the zoning code

and reduce the impacts on the adjacent

properties and surrounding neighborhood.

If granted approval to formalize the

conversion to either two or three units,

the applicant shall allow the codes beer

to perform a comprehensive inspection to

identify any outstanding code violations

and will receive approval for all

necessary city permits prior to

receiving a certificate of occupancy.

Uh, and I do want to note uh the

applicant did contact me about that

condition, noting that uh they do have

recent rental inspections uh that were

performed um on this property. Um, and

we do consider that to be um we do

consider that to be sufficient to meet

this uh condition. Um, and then finally,

the applicant must either repair or

demolish the existing detached garage at

the rear of the property to establish a

formal legal off- streetet parking space

for residents. Plane Bureau staff

recommends the request be approved for

the following reasons. While the

circumstances surrounding the past

conversion are unclear, the bureau can

confirm a history of condemnations

related to property maintenance and

insufficient utilities on site and notes

the conditions of the abuing property

required it to be demolished completely

post August 2023. As such, there appears

to be or have been some justification

for conversion to multiple units,

although the bureau believes that only

two units are justified. And then the

property is located in a mixeduse

corridor featuring convenience stores,

churches, and other converted

properties. and thus a two-unit

conversion would not create adverse

impacts on the surrounding neighborhood.

>> I just state your name for the record.

>> Yes, my name is uh Robert Shokes. I am

the u the owner of Keystone Property

Service, which is the property

management company for this particular

property.

>> Are you acceptable to the commission?

>> Yes.

>> That commissioner is pretty

straightforward to me. I'm going to go

to you for questions and concerns.

>> Yeah. Under the circumstances, I'm

favor.

>> No comments.

>> I did have a question.

No, I don't

think sorry.

>> So, currently it's

>> currently is occupied as three unit.

This this is um this is probably a good

property to demonstrate uh a question

that was was asked a little while ago is

you know how did how did we get here and

what was the process that was being used

back in the day I'm going to call it um

uh we we put in applications with the

codes department and I would request

permission to do certain things making a

multi-unit that kind of thing and the

codes department would do their thing

and come back and say no you can't do

that it's only zoned as a single family

residence and so you you can't do that

without going uh further in this process

and so we we usually shied away from

doing that because of it's it's

somewhat difficult and more more of a

time constraint than anything else um in

this particular case and and the the the

running exception to that was if the

property in question that we had

acquired showed evidence of previous

use as a multi-unit

Then codes enforcement officer in this

particular case, uh, Inspector Daryl

Wagno, who's still here on staff, uh,

came out and looked at the, uh, the

building and we found that there was a a

long-standing three gang gas meter base

in

in the uh, in the basement, meaning that

there were three separate gas meters

installed in this property at one point

in time. Hence, he allowed me to go

forward with the plan to convert this

into a three-unit. So that's how we got

to here. Uh it's not that complicated. I

mean it's complicated and that people

are living there,

>> you know. Uh but as as a matter of

engineering, it's not complicated to

convert it to a two-unit because the

third floor unit would be easily adapted

into the the second floor unit. So that

that's that's simple. the the more

complicated part is just allowing time

for the attrition

uh from the third floor unit if we can

at least let me give this guy some some

notice

uh to to you know and and maybe I have

another unit somewhere that he would be

amanable to moving to or something along

those lines.

second thing I was

>> right as for the garage that's been

that's been a longstanding eyesore and

it is on the the very long list of

things that need to get done in order to

improve this and and it's it's it's in

the works as it is.

>> So

I think this question might be more for

you Jeffrey. Um,

>> so from a legal standpoint, they have

lease agreement, correct?

>> From a also legal standpoint,

does that continue forth until it

expires or does that somehow get voided

because this is not technically

>> uh that is way above my pay grade or at

least my outside of my uh uh knowledge

of uh the legal foundations of planning.

um we would be fine uh with you know

allowing uh the applicant time uh to

find another um unit whether that's in

another property the applicant owns or

somewhere else. Uh we you know and we

don't I don't make that recommendation

to have it be two units lightly. I know

that that will impact somebody. Um but

you know it's also about keeping with

the standards which how we've reviewed

other similar properties and stuff like

that and we don't want to just say like

well because there's someone there shrug

nothing we can do about it. Um but I

think uh we would be fine if you know

saying we could take it till the end of

whatever lease this um tenant has uh and

you know reverting it back to two units

after that.

>> I'm I'm happy to serve the tenant with

notice that we wouldn't be Yeah. Go

ahead.

>> Uh, I'm going to since this is above

your grade, I'm going to ask someone who

is at that grade.

>> Um, I mean it.

Can you guys hear me? Okay. I mean, it's

a complicated question. The city of

Harrisburg does definitely not want to

be in the position putting people out of

housing. we talk about there's housing

you know shortages as there is um so I

get um you know the dilemma that it

presents um we did know and in I did

look at the report seeing that the

recommendation was for two um at the

very least I would think

my and I'll give a non-legal answer if

that's at the very least I would

probably expect the tenant to be able to

remain the remainder of the lease

period. I would think that would be, you

know, gracious of the city to do. Um, if

if you guys decide that a third unit

just is not what you want. Um, having

said that, you know that it's we usually

aren't in the landlord tenant business

in this instance, a private landlord,

but being that it is a situation where

you could decide that it's not a legal

unit, then I would assume then we would

allow the person time to, you know, exit

the situation and hopefully

accommodations could be made with the

landlord to place him someplace else. I

mean, that would be my answer off the

cuff without any other landlord tenant

uh rules coming to mind right now.

>> And I would just note that I I think uh

it might actually be um you know, kind

of fortuitous that uh the current tenant

is a tenant of the applicant because as

the applicant noted, he has many

properties throughout the city and I'm

guessing there's you know churn within

uh that inventory of people's leases

coming up and being renewed and

whatever. So, I would imagine that

compared to maybe a one-off property

owned by somebody else, this would might

be easier for uh this tenant to find an

alternative uh living arrangement.

>> And I guess the tenant couldn't afford

if it goes to two one of those

apartment.

>> I doubt I doubt it very much in this

particular circumstance. It's it's a

it's a two room, one bedroomedroom, one

bath on the third floor. uh minimal

rent. I think it's about $700 a month,

that kind of thing. Um it's in good

shape. Uh but it's it's

the parking there on on at that section

there at uh Market Street, you know,

right there near 17th is it's a premium

and it's hard. And there's a bus stop

right there in the corner. I don't know

if there's any way to stipulate that uh

a tenant there wouldn't be able to own a

car, would have to to use a bus. I don't

I don't know if I don't even know how I

would work that out in a lease. If

that's something that would be viable,

then that might be another alternative.

If if not, then I would just simply say

I would let this tenant know that we

don't intend to renew this lease at the

end and just simply explain why. It's

just one of those things that happens

and and uh we'll make the conversion.

Like I say, it's a it's pretty simple

conversion is literally just a wall that

goes up and some doors come off and

voila, instead of a two-bedroom, one

bath, you have a three-bedroom, two

bath.

I'm not getting more involved in that.

Or did you have a question?

>> I was just say this is the worst thing

to happen to you tonight.

>> Yeah, we're not trying to force

anything. Uh I'm sorry, Commissioner

Jordan. That's all.

>> Commissioner Vincent,

>> just to kind of recclarify

which which uh violation of our zoning

code like why are we reducing it 3 to2

is because

>> um I would say it's it's about the

justification for uh specifically the

more so the variance I would say I think

the special exception uh lower burden of

proof on the applicant. Um but um you

know the special exception related to

the off streetet parking uh a two-unit

building would require two spaces. A

three-unit building requires four. So it

requires twice as much parking. And

again they have a parking uh they have a

garage in the back that could provide

one of those. It doesn't look like it's

operable. At least wasn't sure there was

a car parked in front of it um when when

I was out there. But uh it's about I

think the uh whether there's the

justification for the variance because

it's not large enough to be converted

and it's based the property itself is

basically large enough for like one

unit. So asking for uh three units would

not really be the minimum uh deviation

to afford relief I think and I think

that's kind of what we've held for the

other uh cases being brought by the

applicant and other similar proposals

that um have been submitted in the past.

Is that upstairs unit

large enough to be a legal unit?

>> Yes.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. I was asking.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> I'm not I'm not again I'm uh I don't

know the specifics of what the of the co

threshold. I don't know whether it's

like 250 ft or 300 square feet, but um I

would assume that if the coach was out

there reviewing the sites over

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm not quite

clear at the reduction, but I mean,

go to the public again. If you have any

concerns, please stand. State your name.

Left with the senator.

>> Okay.

Uh commissioners, uh can I get a motion?

>> Motion to approve of commission.

Second

>> move and second for approval of the uh

project. All those in favor signify by

saying

>> I oppose

right there.

>> Just for my clarification, if they're

approving it with the conditions, is

that for your

two units? Yes, that would be one of the

questionain.

>> Well, I just think it's not clear the

way

>> the time limit to get the

>> I mean, I guess you could do a new

motion. I just

>> and I can bring it up at the zoning and

hearing board meeting and let and let

them know that while it might not be a

part of the formal resolution they

receive, it is it was a discussion and

recommendation

>> between provide Jeffrey with

documentation that that the uh the

tenant has been sort of noticed that

>> right my my concern was that the way the

motion was worded and approved does that

mean without context does that mean the

tenant gets out immediately? Does that

mean we're affording, you know, and like

he said, you could add context or teeth

at zoning, but I just wanted to be clear

for you guys that in my understanding,

the motion in passing is very vague.

>> I I don't think I don't think it's it

doesn't have a time limit or anything

like that that says this must happen

tomorrow. Um, so I think uh as long as

and again, as you said, the act the

decision would be modified by the zoning

hearing board.

And I heard it just reentered into a 20

year release.

>> Yep, we voted on that.

Okay, move on then.

Okay. Item number eight, uh, variance

and special exception application for

1901 F Street, which is done RM again

filed by Robert Sto with Keystone

Property Service and he's requesting the

zoning relief necessary to convert the

existing single family dwelling into a

two unit multi-dwelling and request

relation to the off street.

>> Uh yes, the applicant has converted an

existing single family dwelling into a

two-unit multif family dwelling which

requires zoning hearing board approval

of special exceptions for the proposed

use and relief from the Austri parking

requirements per section 7-305.7

and 7-327.6

of the zoning code respectively and a

variance for relief from the density

regulation in section 7-307.3 of the

zoning code. This is an after the fact

application. Uh, and I do want to point

out the difference here is that in this

case, the applicant does not need

another variance for relief from the

specific criteria because the building

is large enough for conversion. Um, the

property at 1901 Forester Street is a 06

acre lot featuring a three-story 2826 ft

structure which was constructed circa

1900. Property is bounded by Forester

Street to the north. the property at

1903 Forester Street to the east, Brown

Street to the south, and North 19th

Street to the west. This attached

structure features elements of a

vernacular architectural style.

Character defining features include the

various facade treatments including wood

clapboard, aluminum siding, brick and

stucco, the enclosed front porch, the

one-story building addition featuring

metal awnings on the rear elevation, the

Oreo windows on the second floor of the

front and side elevations, and the

detached garage. The main entrance

features a paneled fiberglass door set

in a simple frame. It is accessed by

semic-ircular concrete stairs. Side

entrance features a similar panled

fiberglass door accessible via concrete

steps. It is sheltered by a metal

awning. Penetration features windows in

one over one pane configurations. Two of

the windows on the front elevation have

been infilled, including one in the oral

window. Building is topped with flat

rubber roofs. The rear yard is enclosed

by a six foot high wooden stockade fence

with a small strip of grass alongside a

detached singlecar garage that is clad

and stucco and features a wooden panled

garage door. The building features the

building reflects architectural features

of other nearby buildings and generally

reflects the massing and design of other

properties in the surrounding

neighborhood. As such, the building does

contribute to the architectural and

historic character of the streetscape

and neighborhood.

The planning bureau staff recommends the

request be approved with the following

condition. Uh if granted approval to

move forward with the project as

proposed, the applicant shall allow the

codes bureau to perform a comprehensive

inspection to identify any outstanding

codes issues and will receive approval

for all necessary city permits prior to

receiving a certificate of occupancy. Uh

and as with the last property, um they

do have a recent history of that. So, uh

we do consider uh the applicant to have

met that condition on our end. Uh

planning bureau staff recommends the

request be approved for the following

reasons. In contrast to other such

conversions, the structure itself is

large enough for a buyight conversion to

two units, thus reducing the amount and

intensity of zoning relief and providing

some justification for the current

request. As a corner lot, the property

has a onecar detached garage and enough

frontage along both 19th North 19th

Street and Forester Street to reasonably

accommodate the two off- streetet

parking spaces required for the use,

thereby reducing the impact of the

presumed increase in parking demand on

the surrounding residents.

>> You just need to state your name, that's

all.

>> My name is Robert Shokes.

>> Okay. Uh you heard the conditions. Are

you acceptable?

>> Yes, sir.

>> With that, it's pretty straightforward.

>> Commissioners and um any concerns?

>> Yeah. Yeah. No concerns. Again, under

circumstances in favor,

>> no concerns.

>> No, this one is the most straightforward

of all of them.

No questions.

>> Commissioner Jordan.

>> Commissioner,

>> no issues.

>> Go to the public. No.

Could I get a motion?

>> Approve uh with the condition.

>> Second.

Second move and second for approval with

one condition. All those in favor state

by saying I.

>> I.

>> Oppos.

Motion carried. Think we have one more.

>> Two more.

>> Although I probably could have combined

these into into one because they're

adjacent properties, but

Okay, this is uh

uh this is item number nine.

This is a varian section application for

2040 Northport Street and it's zon RM

and it's by Robert Sto with Keystone

Property Service and he's requesting the

zoning relief necessary to convert the

existing single family dwelling to a

twounit multif family to request relief

from the street parking department.

>> Uh yep. So the applicants converted a

single family dwelling into a two-unit

multif family dwelling which requires

zoning hearing board approval of special

exceptions for the proposed use and

relief from the off- streetet parking

requirements per section 7-305.7

and 7-327.6

of the zoning code respectively and

variances for relief from the density

and specific criteria regulations and

sections 7-307.3

and 7-309.2V

of the zoning code respectively. This is

an after the fact application. Property

at 2040 North Fth Street is a 03 acre

lot featuring a three-story 1716 square

foot structure which was constructed

circa 1900. Properties bounded by the

property at 2042 North Fourth Street to

the north, North Fourth Street to the

east. Property at 2038 North Fourth

Street to the south and Walter Alley to

the west. Semiru detached structure

features elements of the Second Empire

architectural style. Character defining

features include the varying facade

treatments including crimson painted

brick ephus and vinyl siding, the full

width front porch, the second floor oral

window on the front elevation beneath a

prominent simple cornice. The two-story

wooden porches on the rear elevation and

the manered roof with real slate

shingles painted tan. Main entrance

features a paneled fiberglass door with

a divided light sunburst pane set within

a simple wooden frame and topped with a

simple transom featuring the property

address. is accessed via porch with

tongue and groove wooden flooring. There

are two entrances on the first and

second floors of the rear elevation,

both of which feature a paneled

fiberglass door topped with infilled

transoms. Administration features

windows in one over one pane

configurations. On the front elevation,

the first floor features sidebyside

windows topped with an infilled transom.

The second floor features the oral

window with simple surrounds and the

third floor features sidebyside windows

in a shallow dormer with a small

pediment. The front rear elevations

feature manered roofs clad and roslate

shingles and the building is otherwise

topped with flat rubber roofs. There's a

small yard in the rear enclosed by a low

cinder block wall and short chain link

metal fence. The property exhibits

significant alterations such as the

varying facade treatments on the side

elevation that reduce its contribution

and that of its attached pair to the

character of the neighborhood which

primarily features residences of

different architectural design. As such,

the building only makes a minimal

contribution to the character of the

streetscape and neighborhood.

The plan B staff recommends a request be

approved with the following conditions.

Uh if granted zoning approval to move

forward with the project as proposed,

the applicant shall allow the codes to

perform a comprehensive inspection to

identify any outstanding code violations

and will receive approval for all

necessary city permits prior to

receiving an updated certificate of

occupancy. Plio staff recommends the

request be approved for the following

reasons. The property had a history of

condemnations for various building code

deficiencies over the years prior to the

applicant's ownership, potentially

requiring more investment than would be

viable for rehabilitation as a single

family dwelling. As such, there is

justification for the allowance of an

additional unit than would be permitted

by Wright. Uh the project reconstructed

a blighting influence and attractive

nuisance and to units that will

contribute to the housing inventory in

the city and the neighborhood and

appears to have had a positive impact on

the uh frequency of illegal dumping on

the adjacent vacant lots. And finally,

existing conditions of the property and

its contact within the neighborhood,

specifically the availability of on

street parking along North Fourth Street

due to the abuing vacant lots and the

vacant church across the street mean the

proposed in increase in residential

density should have a limited impact on

the surrounding community.

>> State your name.

>> My name is Robert Shokes. Okay.

>> Uh once again, you heard the staff

report um with the wind conditions are

acceptable.

>> Yes, sir. Okay.

I have no questions at this time. Again,

straightforward.

Any questions?

>> Commissioner,

>> no questions.

>> Um, the only question I have uh and it

relates to this and the next

application, the next case 2042. So, it

would be a total of four parking spaces

between the because essentially this is

one building unit.

>> Yeah.

>> Two parcels.

and it be four. They're both two units.

>> Um well, I guess if you if you

considered it collectively, it'd be five

overall required. Um but because they're

each individual properties,

>> um it's just we look at it on a per

property basis.

>> Okay.

And you've got vacant lots on either

side of the

>> Yes. I acquired uh 2040 this particular

property. We acquired the vacant lot

2038 to its left at the same time.

>> Nice. They have a a yard.

>> Well, I do.

>> That's

>> And then on the other side of 2042, it's

also vacant, right?

>> That is also vacant. There are three

adjacent lots there that are vacant

across the street from the church.

>> Okay. All right. Thank you. No other

questions.

>> Commissioner Jordan,

>> just one quick question. Um, so you said

you acquired 2038.

>> I acquired 2038 at that time. Uh, and

have since uh sold that. So I'm I'm no

longer the I'm not the current owner of

2038.

>> That was actually purchased by the

gentleman who lives at 2036,

I think, at the adjacent to that lot on

the other side.

>> He has it now. Yes. Pardon me.

>> Was there a property at 23 previously?

>> Do you mean like a a structure?

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. I I couldn't find when those were

demolished. I I went back as far as like

Google Streets you had till like 2011

and they weren't there. So, it obviously

happened a long time ago.

>> Okay. Yeah, that I mean that was really

my only question out of curiosity about

the intermittent sighting.

That's that's why it was placed there

because there was a a significant part

of you know the building that was

damaged in the process of

>> no questions

to the public.

>> It's been moved and second to to approve

this with the one condition. All those

in favor state by saying I

>> oppose.

Motion carries.

This is item number 10. This is a

variance and special reception

application for 2042 North Fourth

Street.

zone or amate Robert Sto with Keystone

Property Service and then to request the

zoning relief necessary to convert the

existing single family dwelling to a two

unit multi-dwelling multif family

dwelling and request relief from the

street. Okay, so this again is similar

to the last one in that they're convert

they have converted a single family

dwelling into a two-unit multif family

dwelling which requires ZHB approval of

special exceptions for the proposed use

and relief from the all street parking

requirements per section 7-305.7

and 7-327.6

of the zoning code respectively and

variances for relief from the density

and specific criteria regulations in

sections 7-307.3

and 7-309.2V

of the zoning code respectively. It's an

after the fact application. Property at

2042 North Fourth Street is a 03 acre

lot featuring a three-story 1668 square

foot structure which was constructed

circa 1900. Property is bounded by the

property at 2044 North Fourth Street to

the north, North Fourth Street to the

east. Property at 2040 North Fourth

Street to the south and Walter Alley to

the west. The semi- detached structure

features elements of the Second Empire

architectural style. Character defining

features include the variant facade

treatments including crimson painted

brick and stucco. the full width front

porch, the second floor oral window on

the front elevation beneath a prominent

simple cornice. The two-story wooden

porches on the rear rear elevation and

the manered roof with real slate

shingles. The main entrance features a

paneled fiberglass door set within a

simple wooden frame and topped with an

infill transom. It is accessed via porch

with tongue and groove wooden flooring.

There are three entrances on the first

and second floors of the rear ele rear

elevation. All of which feature a panled

fiberglass door with the ones providing

access to the first and second floor

units topped with infilled transoms. A

third floor a third door appears to

provide access to the basement.

Penetration features windows in one over

one pane configurations

on the front elevation. The first floor

features sidebyside windows topped with

an infilled transom. The second floor

features the Oreo window with simple

surrounds. And the third floor features

sidebyside windows and a shallow dormer

with a small pediment. Front elevation

features a maner roof clad and real

slate shingles while the rear manered

roof cladding has been replaced with

vinyl siding. And the property is

otherwise topped with flat rubber roofs.

There's a small yard in the rear

partially enclosed with a short chain

link metal fence. property exhibits

significant alterations such as the rear

man roof replacement and the addition of

a new stairway to the basement on the

rear elevation that reduce its

contribution and that of its attached

pair to the character of the

neighborhood which primarily features

residences of different architectural

design. As such, the building only makes

a minimal contribution to the character

of the streetscape and neighborhood. The

planning bureau staff recommends the

request be approved with the following

conditions. If granted any approval to

move forward with the project as

proposed, the applicant shall allow the

codes bureau to perform a comprehensive

inspection to identify any outstanding

code violations and will receive

approval for all necessary city permits

prior to receiving an updated

certificate of occupancy. Plane bureau

staff recommends a request be approved

for the following reasons. The property

had a history of condemnations for

various building code deficiencies over

the years prior to the applicant's

ownership, potentially requiring more

investment than would be viable for

rehabilitation as a single family

dwelling. As such, there's justification

for the allowance of an additional unit

than would be permitted by Bright. The

project reconstructed a blighting

influence and attractive nuisance into

units that will contribute to the

housing inventory in the city and

neighborhood and appears to have had a

positive impact on the frequency of

illegal dumping on the adjacent vacant

lots. And finally, existing conditions

of the property and its context within

the neighborhood, specifically the

availability of on street parking along

North Fourth Street due to the abuing

vacant lots and the vacant church across

the street mean the proposed increase in

residential density should have a

limited impact on the surrounding

community.

>> My name is Robert Shokes.

>> Again, you heard the stat

one.

>> Yes, sir.

The only question I have when I looked

at this picture, I'm just curious

on the back door. What is that?

>> The back door.

>> Yeah, they

>> rear door. That's That's actually a

stairs to go down to the basement.

>> Oh, I mean that white

piece of wood I guess above that. Is

that like covering a window or

I'm not 100% sure to be honest. I'm not

sure what I'm looking at there. Uh I

believe that that is just simply

enclosing the space that's in behind

there.

>> Okay. I just wonder. No problem.

>> It's it's been too long. I'm I'd be

making it up

just different. Okay. With that again,

this is straightforward. Commissioners,

if you have any questions

about

>> No questions.

>> None.

Go to the public questions.

Commissioners, can I get a motion?

>> Motion to approve with the condition.

>> Is there a second

>> second

approval with the blind condition? All

those in favor state by saying I

>> Good luck, sir.

>> You did it.

She's not going to be here.

>> Yeah, she like

>> I'm kind of embarrassed that she didn't

>> because I emailed her about getting the

continuence from last month because she

had Okay,

>> we still have one more to

>> do a continuous

Uh this is item number 11

special application for 1257 and 1259

Walnut Street which is RM followed by

Arthur Jefferson with South Central

Pennsylvania Restoration LLC to

consolidate the subject properties and

request the zoning relief necessary to

construct a six unit multi-rolling

family and to request relief from the

office parking department. The applicant

has requested a continuous to the May

HC.

Can I get a motion

to continue?

>> A second.

>> Second approval for continues to the

main meeting for this project. All those

in favor state by saying I

>> abstensions.

Now we go back to number

two.

Again,

this is the variance. Do I have to read

it again?

>> You know, I mean, you don't have to.

It's the variance of special exception

for 1320 Fton Street.

um you know, seeing as the applicant has

not showed up and did not show up to the

last meeting uh and also um had not

responded to my request for a

continuence uh ahead of uh the March

17th or March 16th zoning hearing board

meeting. I'm not sure if they're still

proposing to move forward with this or

or what, but I think we'd already we've

already given them a um you know the uh

grace of a of one uh continuence. And I

would recommend uh that uh the

application be denied, which was what

our recommendation was in the case

report.

What's that?

>> Do you want us to vote on continuing?

>> I I would I would recommend I would

recommend a denial. I mean, if there had

been some back and forth and it was just

couldn't be here for whatever reason. I

would understand that. But um the the

lack of communication I think just it

will still go I guess to the zoning

hearing board and you know

>> and they can either withdraw

or continue from there after this

>> second

to deny the continuence

in favor by saying

>> I

number

Okay.

Oh, this is

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, uh Yeah. So, with uh respect

to the um the zoning code amendment for

chapter 7 325. Uh, apologies for it

taking a little while to get to you, but

I eventually got you the crosswalk here

uh between um what we what we have now

and what the um planning bureau is

proposing for the future. So, I hope

this is um I hope this provides maybe a

little bit more clarity uh and

simplifies uh the changes we're

recommending for for your guys's

consideration. Um, you know, if you have

uh specific questions, uh, be happy to

answer them. I, you know, the most

significant section is obviously section

7-325.6.

That's the one that contains the, you

know, dimensional aspects of um of the

signage, size, height, illumination,

things of that nature of the four

different kinds of signs that we have.

Um, and you can kind of see for the most

part, uh, we made minimal, uh,

increases, um, such as for businesses in

the R, RL or RM district, uh,

recommending that they be allowed to

have eight square feet instead of four

square feet. Um, and you know, the

consideration for something like that is

uh if we are voting to allow uh a

business in the RM or RL district, I

think it's reasonable to allow them to

maybe uh advertise themselves um more

closely to what they would have if they

were in a CN district or something. I

don't think that uh an 8 square foot

sign would be um

too gaudy or out of character uh even in

a residential neighborhood. Um and so

that's kind of what we were thinking

there. Uh some other major changes is in

the CG district making again wall signs

100 square feet instead of 75. Um

something like that was based on uh

a an acknowledgement that we know a we

have few CG zoned uh properties um and a

in a lot of cases they're set back from

the road uh because they have parking in

front of them. Um so you have a little

bit more distance so you maybe need to

have a larger signage to be able to

advertise businesses that are there. Um

we kind of allowed uh overall increased

uh the allowance of window signs to 50%

of the window area instead of 25 uh%.

And um you know I think this will I

think this in particular will be a

benefit uh to small businesses. Um, you

know, when we get requests for small

businesses, uh, especially if they're in

historic districts, um, you know, they

may say like, well, I'm looking to get

started next week, uh, and they might be

able to establish that, but if it'll

take them six weeks to get a sign up,

for example, um, you know, that may be a

bit of a hardship for them. So, we've

always recommended in the past that

they, uh, put in window signs because

that's easier to put up, uh, not subject

to hard reviews. And so we wanted to

kind of codify that uh by allowing these

to go up. And we kind of run into the

issue of uh you've probably seen it

around the city where people just fill

in the whole window with uh you know

either decals or little windows or

something. So you know we want to get

away from that of just like filling up

windows um with uh signs or you know or

iconography or logos or anything like

that. um but still give small businesses

that are just getting started uh maybe

before they even have the money to buy

signs or go through the process to get

zoning relief or something uh a way to

uh be able to um advertise themselves uh

to the public. Um so that's kind of one

of the reasons we uh increased uh the

allowable size of window signage. Um,

other than that, uh, if you guys want to

go, you know, section by section, have

any questions or you have any

outstanding questions about, uh, what

you're seeing in here, um, be happy to

ask or happy to, um, provide some

background about, you know, why those

recommendations are being made?

>> Any questions?

>> Yeah. See, open space and recreation

reduces the wall sign to

reduction.

Uh yeah, you know, I think um we don't

really have many um

commercial uses in our OSR districts. Um

for the most part, those are strictly

parks. Um the there's two conspicuous

cases I can think of is the Loil Hotel

down off Shoi Street, 901 Shenoy. That's

in the OSR district. We get a lot of

questions about that lar mainly for like

things like roomy houses uh and stuff

but um the other is city island uh so

which is in the OSR district that's a

little different because it's owned by

the city and we have you know contracts

with vendors to occupy some of those

little kiosks in the in the village down

there and and elsewhere whether it's the

beach club or whatever. Um but for the

most part, you know, in my my opinion,

the OSR district is supposed to be kind

of natural. It's supposed to not be um

you know, commercialized really. And so

that's the one reason we just I

recommended shrinking uh the signers

there. Again, I would be surprised if

that ever comes up uh just because we

don't have many uh businesses in OSR

districts. Um but I thought that that

maybe matched the spirit of what the

district was a bit more.

Okay.

>> I I think before

my question I I feel like I don't know a

couple months ago I had questions about

the illumination section.

Um I do sorry

>> provided more specific light control.

Yeah I think I I think those were my

questions that I was trying to find. I

just wanted to find out like where they

came from like where they came from the

changes like how you arrived at the

>> so uh you know with regard to the

illumination just with regard to the

illumination or all of them

>> I don't remember.

I do remember you had asked about uh one

of the issues uh you had kind of uh been

focused on was the billboards. Um I I

don't recall the illumination quite as

much.

>> No, it was the billboards. You're right.

You're right. Because Yeah. Because then

because in the billboard section,

>> right, you increase the size,

>> right? Yes.

>> Which I think is good. But then my

question was, is that enough or should

we increase it more? A little bit more.

um

>> the standard.

>> Yeah. You know, I think as I've I've

been doing a little bit of research on

this and I think as the industry is

moving towards uh digital LED, there's

less standardization uh of the size of

the signs. I mean, you get ones that are

really tall and long or narrow and tall

and then you've got like ones that are

more like wider. I think that's kind of

the benefit of the LEDs is that you can

really structure uh the sign and the

messaging more to your taste and it's

not just like this is these are the

panels we put up and you get three of

them and they're all the same size kind

of that we that I think you know the

static uh billboard industry really had.

Um, so again, I I I don't know that

there was like a number I was shooting

at there of saying like this is the

average of all the reviews we've done uh

in the city or uh you know this is

necessarily where I think the industry

is going. Uh I just kind of tried to say

well I think we need to recognize that

billboards are probably bigger than what

our current regulations have um without

just

essentially giving cart blanch to uh the

billboard industry to just put up these

large 672 square foot signs whether

those are static or digital.

>> Okay, that makes more sense. And now I

remember too when I'm thinking about LED

billboards

are they are they considered illuminated

LED illumination?

>> I consider LED internal illumination uh

signage wise.

>> Yeah. And I and I would guess really,

you know, you're probably more running

into pendot regulations, like when you

start to talk about some of the uh maybe

regulating the way that they're

illuminated or the messaging or

something like that. Um I think Pendot

has like pretty stringent regulations

about what you can have along the side

of a highway uh because they don't want,

you know, people taking their attention

off while they're going 60 miles an

hour.

>> Well, I was also thinking about next to

residential lot. Mhm. Well, and you'll

and you'll note there the billboard

section that we uh are recommending that

uh it be doubled the distance from the

residential lot line from 250 to 500

square feet. So that can um a help hope

hopefully help uh minimize uh the impact

of any change um as well as you know

just from a building so you don't have a

billboard sitting right outside of a you

know somebody's office window or

something like that. Um although I think

from a practicality standpoint again I

don't think we're going to see too many

billboards uh outside of like the 83 and

you know maybe 81 corridor and even the

81 corridor like very narrowly runs

through the city. So it's mainly what

we're looking at along 83 and most of

that is you know we've got car

dealerships, you've got um the Penty

Supply area and kind of right down

there. Um, and you know, with the

widened uh highway further east, I don't

even know that you're necessarily and I

think they're putting I think they put

up highway walls uh sound barrier walls.

So, I don't even know if there's any

space to put um billboards out there,

but that's where you're probably getting

the closest to having a billboard impact

a residential neighborhood is out there

along eastern uh section of Interstate

83 there just because of um you know,

the existing land uses around there.

If a school or a convenience store or

some industrial building were to put up

a freestanding sign

that a billboard sign

>> Yeah. So the the difference is uh and

it's kind of there in the name. It's

like off premise. Yeah. It's like So

that's that'd be uh like Camp Hill

having a billboard in Harrisburg. It

wouldn't be like

>> if it's on the property that it's

advertising the use for, that's an on

premise sign and it would be subject to

whatever the zoning district is there.

>> Okay. All right. Thanks for clarifying

that.

>> I'm good.

>> Yeah.

>> Sure.

>> Um so the prohibited sign section

>> are are we saying that

says, "Signs that are non flashing with

an electronically changing message. Are

we saying they are or are not allowed in

any of the districts?"

>> Uh, we are saying that they're not

allowed.

>> Okay.

>> All right. And then for

offremise signs,

B6.

Okay.

>> It says that electronically changing

signage is prohibited. But didn't we

approve the swap out of static signs for

these types of signs along the highway

corridor?

>> So, we didn't approve like a swap out of

those two things. I mean, I think that's

just where the industry is going. I

don't think we did we did approve

specific questions. Yes, we did. We did

approve those

>> um those specific proposals. Uh and they

did have to file a variance for that.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, so technically this still

stands, but they had the Yes. Yes.

>> And the very last one probably

straightforward. Um the vehicles

functioning as signs. I'm assuming these

standards apply when the vehicles parked

and stationary.

>> So um you know basically I

essentially removed that section because

I don't know that we've ever uh used it

and I kind of folded it into

um I think the prohibited signs maybe.

Uh I can't remember off the top of my

head. Um, but uh I

think that for the most part if a if a

car or one of those trucks with like a

digital sign on it is parked along

Second Street, the zoning code doesn't

apply there. Uh we do not regulate in

the um in like the cartway uh for

anything like that. Uh so our zoning the

zoning regulations don't apply to that.

uh if it were in a parking lot for a

business and and doing it there, I guess

I'd consider that I guess I'd consider

that to be a free uh freestanding sign.

If it was just like parked and left

there, if it's parked there and it's

driven around during the day, I don't

know that I'd consider that a sign that

the zoning code would apply to.

>> Okay. All right. Thank you. I was a

little confused, but

Um,

my only question would have been about

the uh

on 32515 the posting industry address

like changing the

seems like a pretty technical

restriction that property owners have to

anchor to mortar joints. Is that

something that is a typical change or is

that more

>> so that's meant so that's kind of Uh

there's two reasons for that. One uh

being that as a general rule, um it's

better to anchor things like that

through mortar joints. Like even if

you're not in a historic district, like

putting it through the brick, which is

what a lot of contractors do because I

think they think, oh, brick, you've got

all this, you know, the solidness of the

brick to anchored into uh over time, you

know, it like wiggles around and it the

brick falls apart. And then when a

brick's fallen out of your uh facade, it

can be, you know, kind of difficult to

to clean that up. Um but from a historic

district perspective, we require

everything whether it's u you know new

sconces or whatever uh signs uh to be

anchored through mortar joints so it

doesn't damage the brick. So it's kind

of for those reasons we we recommended

that it's kind of like a best practice

and also like a historic requirement.

>> And with that and everything, how do we

like how are we communicating this out

so that those requirements kind of get

known so

>> Yeah. Um you know one of the I mean I I

guess it would be like we like how we do

this for anyway how do we pro promulgate

these now as as they are and I think you

know we rely on people to ask us we uh

hopefully do a good job of putting the

information out there in an accessible

manner. Uh but one of the things we've

talked about uh with um some of the

other departments is having a like

welcome letter um when a property

transfers to say you know if you're the

codes bureau, hey, make sure if you're

doing any structural work or any work

over $1,000 or whatever their criteria

are, you know, you file a building

permit so that people are aware that

that exists. and and we would do we

would have a similar section for like

the planning bureau of like know if

you're in a historic district, know if

you're in a flood plane and um we'd you

know direct them to uh to our website.

Um one of the things we're working on um

is a an FAQ sheet to put on the website.

So because we do get all kinds of

question of I'm looking to buy this

property, what can I do there? Um, and

you know, we get that a lot and instead

of like having plane bureau staff have

to maybe always, you know, address that

because that's really something I think

where the public can help themselves.

Um, but we need to kind of maybe give

them a bit more direction of just so

have that FAQ document. I just bought

this property. I'm looking to what can I

do? First step, you know, look it up on

the zoning map of what your zoning uh

what your zoning designation is. second

step, you know, go into the zoning code

which is at this link and like look for

the allowable uses in this section and

then look for the um uh development

standards in this section. So, we are

kind of working on ways to uh push this

information out uh to the public and not

just having you know expecting people to

come to us. Um but, you know, there's

always things we can do. I know um

there's uh you know our our

communications department is always uh

uh trying to get us to give them ideas

about you know content that they can

push out uh through our social media or

through our website. And so it's

probably you know something we would uh

work with them on to uh make sure we're

getting the word out when we have uh new

regulations especially because hopefully

the new regulations we're creating are

uh being designed to make the public's

life better. So, we want to let them

know when that's happening.

>> I uh I've been discussing with this with

Neil and I don't know if he was

discussing with you, but we seem to be

of the mind that there needs like in my

mind after this happens, you guys

basically would like recommend this as

zoning changes, which then have to still

be

really when I was talking to Neil about

it, it usually is recommended by the

city body, which would be the city

council that you guys would recommend

changes. This then to me in my mind has

to go through a process which includes

meetings and that type of thing. So, I

don't I'm not sure, Commissioner

Vincent, if you were referring to like

how would we get the whole changes out

or when somebody buys a new house, but

like we discussed before and Neil said

he had talked to you. I don't know.

We'll have to confer. To me, this is

like the first step in a process now

that begins. So, there would be public

meetings.

>> People in each district of course would

have their concerns about how it affects

their district and then at some point

after that it gets voted on. So I mean I

think we utilize that process for people

to say you know what businesses think

150 is better or you know and I don't

know that in the end it still looks

exactly like what Jeff recommended or do

we then have public commentary and we

say you know what they made a good point

we want to change 3251 to this and that.

So I think that is the purpose of the

public comment period to allow the

public to weigh in and then put it forth

for a vote to for an official like

zoning map amendment.

>> And I think that would happen through

like the public hearing process that

would occur at

>> Yeah.

>> within the city council.

>> I think what Jeff did is nice because it

basically gives you guys a starting off

point to say this is our recommendation

for the zoning map amendments for signs

and if you guys vote on it and agree

then we go into the next steps. So I

think Vincent um Commissioner Vincent

right it would be built into the public

hearing process and notice and meetings

that that's how people would become

aware of what all the changes are

entail. Then it goes into a period where

we thereby then say, "Okay, it

officially becomes effective this date

>> and you know and that just gives

everybody a chance to get up to speed,

comply, whatever."

>> Just had a quick suggestion or question

with the the GIS zony map. Is it capable

of attachments?

>> Uh it's capable of links I think now.

It's it's been a bit of a frustration

lately because Ezri stopped supporting

one of the platforms we used for the old

zoning map. So, our GIS administrator

um is reconfiguring what our zoning map

looks like and the the interface is

different. Like before when you click on

a a property, a little dialogue box

would come up and it would tell you the

partial ID and the zoning and like it

would have links to the zoning code.

Now, it kind of it pops up on the

sidebar. Uh and so I don't know what all

the capabilities are with this new

platform and everything. So how we can

best use it to provide information but

that's something I'll work on our with

our GIS coordinator.

>> Yeah, that that was something I was

thinking like you know you click on a

property and you know

>> say like once this gets passed you know

a link to the website is there and then

obviously if it's in historic district

that that packet that would be there so

they can just kind of see it right

there.

>> Right. And yeah, and so currently like

the the GS administrator had to I think

kind of scramble a little bit. We had an

initial meeting where it's like well

what do you need when we migrate this

stuff over? Um so we haven't really been

able to sit down and talk about uh the

actual functionality of it or you know

what all we want to it. It's just been

like we just need to get it up and over

here so that it can be used. Um, so

we'll have those conversations in the

future and I think we definitely uh are

going to look at ways to, you know, make

that as useful to the public as

possible.

>> Discussion

uh before we get to Jeremy, um, who is

the young lady sitting back?

>> I was waiting for you to ask her before

she left, so I don't know what she said.

I can't take it. She thought you were

going to ask her or I don't I don't I I

had I had somebody call and ask if the

uh if the meeting was open to the public

and I told them it was u I can't

remember. I don't think they gave me a

name and I don't know that they gave me

a specific case that it was for. So

maybe that was that individual. Um

>> and someone had uh approached Neil too

about being interested in empty board

positions and especially within the

planning and zoning. So I also don't

know if that was her but I was waiting

for you to ask so I can see too. Either

she doesn't want to be identified or she

hits snooze. I don't know.

>> I think she just couldn't take it.