City of Harrisburg Zoning Hearing Board Meeting - 01/27/25

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okay good evening everyone it's uh 6:04

p.m. January this uh 27 20,000 uh

2025 this is

the meeting of the Harrisburg zoning

hearing board okay so there's some

administrative Stu we take here first

okay call meeting to order I introduce

myself I'm Claude fips I'm the uh chair

of the Z hearing board

okay um since my other my other person's

not here tonight so before I continue um

since I will be the only person hearing

it um do you guys you have an option you

can have your case continue to the next

uh hearing board meeting which would be

in February or if you feel as though I

I'm sufficient enough for you to hear it

hear it your choice Andy rebu I'm with

Lamar Advertising here in Le Mo the

applicant right right and we're

certainly thrilled to be here and thank

you for your time so okay and just then

we'll have just for um so applicant you

agreed that Mr fips can hear and decide

the case tonight correct correct correct

excellent thank you okay good so now

I'll add my other colleagues to the

discussion to my left is our um

solicitor for the sunning hearing board

okay in front of me is the director of

planning for city of Harrisburg Mr

Jeffrey

Knight and and Sol and assistant

solicitor for the Harrisburg city of

Harrisburg miss

Cameron hello okay um a little bit of

formalities

um uh the zoning hearing board functions

as a a formal board which means we have

a we our records we have keep records of

this so we have a stenographer okay and

in case of appeal your appeal will be

made through the uh Court Common

please so we basically look at we we

make a transcript the only report is

like a court of law our decisions must

be based off of fact and law not the

popularity or unpopularity of a project

or what it seems to the board to be a

good or bad project in other words

applicant must must meet a legal proof

burden of proof that proves the elements

of the variance or special exceptions to

their requesting okay the law that we're

governed by is the City Zoning codes and

the PA Municipal planning code

okay I think it's SP about it since I

don't like we have we have people in the

audience um for each case um people

anybody who's here repres the case from

from the in the audience they will be

allowed to get up and speak Only Rule is

is that you must give your name and your

address and if you're going to speak on

the property you must be in close

proximity to the to the property in

question okay so um okay ready yep call

first case solic uh so it is application

2595 uh before I read the exhibits and I

know uh Andy reuk right uh for for the

app

uh before I then forget why don't we

just do it so uh we have application

2595 you are also the applicant for 2596

correct okay U so uh would you agree

then with the same thing for that for

that case for application 2595 that Mr

fips um um he and decide that case as

well similar to uh application 2595 yes

sir excellent thank you so uh with

application 2595 the exhibits uh B1 is

the proof of publication and Patriot

news January 12 and January 19 2025 B2

is the letter sent from the planning

director to the applicant notifying of

tonight's hearing B3 is a hearing notice

that's posted on the property B4

applicants and notification letters to

required neighbors

B5 is the application with an attached

narrative and then there's exhibits A1

through

A10 uh B6 is a property and tax document

with uh and along with the letter of

permission which is part of B5

establishes the applicant standing uh to

pursue the zoning relief B7 is the

planning Bureau case report and B8 is

the city of Harrisburg Planning

Commission resolution so we have B1

through

B8 thank you um now um we'll swear in to

swear in Mr Knight and I'll just swear

in the applicat too can it's where the

information you're going to give is

truth and nothing whole truth nothing

but the truth I do I do okay thank you

okay why don't we do right and you are

Michael

Adams and Andy rbuk okay just keep your

hands up go ahead Mr okay so good you

swear the information that you're going

to present is truth whole truth nothing

but the truth I do thank you very

much uh yes so the um current

applications uh before the board for

$25.95 uh involve the replacement of an

existing double-sided static billboard

on the property at 833 Paxton Street uh

this portion of the property is actually

just to the south of Interstate 83 which

bisects the property uh East West um the

applicants are uh in addition to

relocating uh the sign itself uh to

accommodate the expanded Highway

footprint um on the same property uh the

applicant will be replacing one of the

signed faces with an LED sign signed

face which has internally uh illuminated

signage and uh electronically changing

messaging um and in addition to that uh

the double-sided billboard or flat

double-sided billboard um is going to be

converted to uh a two-faced billboard

with about a 25 foot Gap uh between them

um the zoning code allows uh anything up

to a 5 foot Gap to be considered um a

single

uh two-sided billboard so this is

technically two different signs so uh

the applicants are requesting relief

from both um the prohibition against uh

electronically changing messages and

internally eliminated Billboards as well

as for the separation distance between

the two signage faces um as noted uh

this property uh this billboard is

located in kind of the uh storage area

lay down area of the peny supply

uh property uh it will be moved uh

slightly uh to the South and I believe

to the east a little bit from where it

currently is located um largely the

context of the sign will not change it's

an industrial property a largely

industrial Corridor uh the to the West

is railroad tracks uh to the east is um

surface parking lots uh so uh the

context of the um uh signage is not

changed in um and otherwise uh

the proposal um involves uh the kind of

the consolidation of of many static

faces as shown in the uh map that they

have uh that the applicants have

provided at the Planning Commission

meeting um so that is their

justification for consolidating it into

the uh single um digital signage phase

with all that being said uh the Planning

Commission recommends the zoning hearing

board approve the request uh with the

following conditions uh if the board

approves the applicant's request as

submitted the applicant will be in

conformance with the rules and

regulations set forth by the

Pennsylvania Department of

Transportation and receive approval from

set entity subsequent to decision by the

zoning hearing board uh and this was a

condition that was added um in a recent

case at 1500 Paxton Street that the

applicants were uh that these

individuals were the applicants for as

well uh so we decided to continue to

this case and

2596 uh the applicant will limage will

limit message transition to six

transitions per minute per previous

approval for a similar proposal granted

by the zoning hearing board and again

that references the case for 1500 Paxton

Street uh finally the applicant should

ensure that the footprint of the

relocation site is outside of the AE uh

100-year flood plane the proximity of

the new billboard structure support

structure to the a flood plane boundary

uh is such that the designation of the

proposed location cannot be confirmed so

when looking at the site plan provided

by the applicants and then uh comparing

that to uh our digital zoning map with

the flood plane information it was a

little um unclear as to whether that

would be out uh the current foot

footprint of the sign is in uh the the

100-year flood plane so it wouldn't

change anything from a um you know

hydrologic standpoint uh but it would be

preferable if that were moved out of the

flood plane um you know both for

conformance with our City's flood plane

regulations and also for the applicants

benefit to sure that it's avoids being

impacted by a flood event uh the

Planning Commission uh recommends the

zoning hearing board approve the request

for the following reasons uh the

variance relief requested by the

applicant is intended to offset the loss

of 18 structures with 30 signage faces

at various points along the stretch of

Interstate 83 running through the city

due to the highway widening project and

a similar proposal was reviewed and

approved by the zoning her board in

November 2023 as the property is located

in an industrial and auto oriented

Corridor and will face a widened Highway

and

railroad its installation should not be

detrimental to the general character of

the

neighborhood thank

you thank you very

much

yeah give I'll give three quick thoughts

again I'm the general manager of Lamar

Advertising the billboard company here

yes and we're always thankful and

appreciative of the city and as a

property owner as a business person and

as a partner with uh the city folks with

a lot of different things so thank you

um the pendot project is a kick and rear

end if you're coming in Northbound on 83

and you cross the river between the

river and like 19th Street you would

have seen 18 billboard faces coming and

going when the Project's done you'll see

four maybe six if we get lucky it's a

real change and and that's my third

thought we're we're fortunate to have a

good business and and keep a good

business but this is a struggle so one

way that we can kind of get back to even

is to get approval to do this Mike Adams

runs our real estate department he's a

he with a nice guy and he's going to U

chip in any questions or information

that you might want right yes and they

have yeah okay I said that basically

what we gave the Planning Commission was

an overiew what

structures show you get more of a visual

it's a lot easier to see it on a map

than it is to talk about so that was

what I have I have you have any direct

questions very

one thing I should have asked you and

your address you give address yes my

home address

noet thank you thank you um that's been

the home of the billboard company since

1930 is that amazing yeah General lot

yes Jeff I was G to ask you a question

the existing signage it's it it's not

contained inside the current flood plan

is it the existing sign the support

footprint is in the flood plane okay the

one the location they're proposing looks

like it's out of the flood plane but

it's a little difficult to tell so our

recommendation is if they're able to

negotiate it with the property owner to

perhaps move it a little further south

uh from where the proposed location is

just to ensure is out of the flood PL

and this is basically replacement sign

you want to take down the non-electronic

signs and basically put up something

that's going to be around for a while

correct um

basically question self

explanat right does it anything for you

t so to add to

that okay anybody else here on this I

just have one question so with the sign

even though it's it's a v-shaped though

since the one is more than 5 feet that's

why it's right considered but it is like

a vshape kind of okay I got

it okay so um

I can't ask for a motion because I'm the

only motion person so am I'm allowed to

basically say you know based off of what

I've read and your

presentation um the other thing is the

the three conditions they're fine yes

okay that's correct okay good okay okay

so I would basically recommend approval

of this just say yeah you you approve

approve it with the you approve it with

the conditions of the Planning

Commission Planning Commission yes okay

so then that's what we'll do and we'll

issue the written decision um in line

with that like the other one you would

have received um with that other

application so um we can move on to

2596 same and do and do that um

everybody who was here Mr Knight's still

under oath and the applicant the two for

the applicant are still under growth so

um why don't I just do then the exhibits

and then we'll take it from there all

right okay so we have

2596 uh 3737 and 3745 North 6 Street uh

the exhibits uh B1 proof of

publication uh Patriot news January 12

January 19 2025 B2 is a letter sent from

the planning director to applicant

notifying of the hearing B3 is a hearing

notice posted on the property B4

applicants and notification letters to

required neighbors B5 is the application

with attached narrative and Exhibits it

at A1 through

A1 uh B6 or Grant of easements and a

special warranty deed establishing the

applicants standing to pursue the zoning

relief B7 planning Bureau case report B8

is the city of Harrisburg Planning

Commission resolution so with that we

got B1 through

and uh sure so um case 2596 uh this is

while it represents a similar proposal

uh to that of the F last case uh the

conditions are a little bit um different

uh so in this case they're proposing to

replace a two-sided static billboard

with a single-sided uh billboard with

the LED um sign phase and uh

electronically changing mess

uh in addition to that uh they are

relocating the sign uh from the

Northfolk Southern Railway yard uh which

is technically addressed as 29 98a

Industrial Road um just to the West uh

and the property of the West is I

believe 3737 North um 6th Street uh that

and 3745 are both owned by the same

entity um and they'll be Loca relocating

that uh billboard base into the parking

lot uh of that business it's going to be

occupying um a single parking space per

the testimony of the uh applicants of

the Planning Commission meeting uh

they're also locating it uh as far in

the Southeastern corner of the site as

possible given proximity to the elevated

highway there um which uh will keep it

away from the uh nearest Residential

Properties um this property is and

project site is unique in that um the

properties themselves are within the

city but everything uh to the north and

west is actually in squ Township uh so

the properties the Residential

Properties that'll be impacted by this

um or or that are within the uh buffer

area are um located approximately 150 uh

feet away I believe uh from where the

proposed new signage um location is um

and then in addition to that uh uh yeah

so they'll have an off- PRM sign within

250 ft of the residential L line um now

the you know justification for this is

is similar it's part of a larger

consolidation of signage faces lost like

Highway uh changes um and also

modernization of the applicant's uh

inventory um having one digital signage

face as opposed to a numerous you know

static faces um is not only you know

better for the applicants but results in

the loss of visual clutter uh along

these corridors um and the property um

or the signage facee will be facing to

the east uh so it will be overlooking uh

the Northfolk Southern Rail Yards uh the

industrial properties along Industrial

Road and uh the Interstate 81 Highway um

so it will actually remove a signage

face towards uh the residence of ss

Township um so that all being said the

Planning Commission

recommends that the zoning hearing board

approve the request with the following

conditions uh the board approves the

applicant's request as submitted the

applicant will be in conformance with

rules and regulations set forth by the

Pennsylvania Department of

Transportation and receive approval from

said entity subsequent to decision by

the zoning hearing board and the

applicant will limage limit message

transition to six transitions per minute

per previous approval for a similar

proposal granted by the zoning hearing

board uh the Planning Commission

recommends the zoning hearing board

approve the request for the following

reasons the applicant has previously

received relief for an electronically

changeable LED message board from the

zoning hearing board in November 2023

and both the current proposal and the

relocated one at 833 Paxton Street will

result in the consolidation of static

sign faces via LED message boards

creating an overall reduction in the

amount of visual plight with respect to

the height the proposed off street sign

will retain the same height as the

existing sign located 147 fet East of

the proposed site and is necessary to

permit visibility to passers by on the

elevated highway to the South uh the

applicants off premise signage mitigates

potential impacts on Residential

Properties to the north and west by

proposing a one-sided billboard which

faces East overlooking the Norfolk

Southern Railroad tracks warehouses

along Industrial Road and Interstate 81

and finally because there's an existing

billboard visible to surrounding

residents that is being relocated as

part of this request the project will

not introduce a new off- premise sign

and thus will not create a new visual

obstruction one question I have for you

Jeff um and I saw this is a

this sign is going to be elevated pretty

much up to 40 feet above the ground or

uh I don't remember off the top of my

head with I was going to ask that it was

it said like the total you know whatever

the the with the sign it looked like the

top of the sign may be like 68 it's 68

60 60 something sticks in my head I can

find out exactly but essentially if you

look at the sign the sign height that it

is today

almost be identical because right it's

over 40 it's not perfectly level but

it's pretty close

Rises that's correct yeah and my second

question is s a Township because I when

you said 3700 block of north 60 I said

wow you're right on the borderline okay

um is will there be any push back from

sanana Township from their from their

plan organization I both sent them a

letter spoken with them and sent them a

copy of The Proposal before

we say we have received nothing from sus

attach okay right okay thank you

so we start asking about your project I

about the project I I just add one

thought here we have a really good

relationship with the railroad folks and

they're a big property owner not only

here in Harrisburg where we have you

know 50 to 100 Billboards on their

properties but Across the Nation but

they grew

and they took what were three tracks and

made them six and put us right in the

middle so the guy that runs the yard

there said we can't get you safely to

your billboard because we can't stop the

Amtrak trains versus the norfol trains

so we've been very limited we've been in

maybe two times over the course of two

years and so the railroad fully

understood they said we know you have to

take your board down they were crying

about it but you know because they like

the money but

this was the answer was to get relief

from uh from the the city with the the

variants we need and then move move it

up to a single-sided unit right at 100

yards away maybe right

mely 67

ft yeah thank you anything add um no I

said

you Prov that stand

um okay so it's is that the two

conditions there's two conditions

correct two conditions fine right okay

um okay Mr

fips pretty pretty good so I um I move

to I'm going to approve this with the

two condition stated by the Planning

Commission yep okay and yes I I've

actually area so I know that

yard still play area and yeah that would

be very I can to understand the safety

issue too you can't service that at all

ways currently yeah approve thank you

okay yep we'll get the decisions out but

Yep they're approved so all right you

too

excellent why them and everything

and you

know

res commercial coming down coming back

to haris movie studio the studios and

cleaners and stuff over in stores so

okay so

yep so ready okay so turn it back over

to you Mr Conor okay so we are 20 uh

application

2597 2300 North 7th Street

and uh are you Mr Ali okay Mr Ali so uh

you probably heard me uh in talking to

the other applicants um are you

agreeable to having just Mr fips uh the

chairman of this board hear the case

tonight and decide it um otherwise there

usually is another board member which it

would be then a quorum to be able to

decide this um but uh then it would have

to be continued to next month so you

have the option to agree to have Mr fips

here and decide it tonight or agree to

continue until next meeting up to

you okay so you agree then Mr fips can

hear it and decide I apologize I've seen

you before and I I I've met you and I

I've got to make sure it was just it was

something p a passing thing but okay

thank you okay so let me uh read in the

exhibits

so uh we have B1 proof of publication

and imp patriate

news uh January 12th January 19th 2025

uh letter sent from the planning

director to applicant notifying of

tonight's hearing B3 is a hearing notice

posting on the property B4 applicants

notification letters uh to required

neighbors B5 is the application with a

photo of the uh parking area and the

plan for the rear parking area B6 is the

installment sales agreement and the deed

establishing applicants standing to

pursue the zoning relief B7 is the

planning Bureau case report and B8 is

the city of Harrisburg Planning

Commission

resolution so we have B1 through

B8 right Mr Knight still sworn in from

the prior applications uh yes so

2597 uh the applicant is uh proposing to

establish a me processing use on site

which is permitted by right in the

industrial district in which the

property is located uh and is therefore

requesting relief from the off street

parking requirements for such a use

which are outlined in section 7-3 27.6

of the zoning code uh per those

regulations uh the pros use would

require one parking space for 1,000

square ft of gross floor area or one

space for each employee based on the

floor area of the building the proposed

use would require seven off street

parking spaces um and as uh the board

members can see uh in the documentation

provided by the applicant uh there was a

informally lined parking lot I guess I'd

say at the at the rear of the property

um I that was done I think sometime

after September 2023 I want to say

looking back at Google streets view

images and uh may have been an effort by

um the either current or former I think

the applicants in the midst of uh

purchasing the property Uh current or

former um property owner uh to create

you know space uh uh spaces um on site

to accommodate new businesses um now the

the issue kind of becomes with respect

to the site plan that they've given you

is that they've got two spaces on either

side of a Central Drive aisle um but the

spaces to the right as you go in uh

their formal establishment through you

know this process uh would basically

cause uh the vehicular access to this

property to be um blocked as well as to

the property of the north um and so the

proposal for the four spaces as shown on

that site plan um two of those would not

be legal because they prevent um legal

access to those properties and and and

while that might be less of an issue for

this current applicant if they if they

sold it or if they wanted to lease it to

a different uh tenant so an auto repair

shop in the future they would need to

have access to that thing um and if

those were formerly established bases

for such use that would be obviously a

conflict there between those two things

so uh in reviewing this the planning

Bureau uh effectively looked at the site

plan that the applicants provided and

said you know the two spaces um to the

left as you go in so they're at the West

westernmost side of the property uh are

viable they aren't blocking anything um

those two yep those two aren't blocking

anything so they can count towards uh

the required uh seven offre parking

spaces so then the applicant would be

needing to make up five spaces or

request relief from five spaces uh now

the applicant has uh committed to

providing secure bike storage uh for um

uh potential employees uh which is one

of the um criteria allowing relief from

off street parking uh additionally uh

the prevalence of on Street available on

street parking in the surrounding

streets um and by looking at the

frontage of the property with the uh

streets uh we determine that they have

sufficient parking um along the blocks

uh to along 7th Street and Emerald

Street to accommodate any demand um now

that it was brought up at the Planning

Commission meeting uh that there are no

parking signs on the Emerald Street side

um those also are a relatively recent

addition and um I reached out to the uh

City Engineer's office because I wasn't

quite sure why they were added if you U

and they were installed before our

current city engineer was um uh in his

position um and if you look at them it's

not really clear while they while they

why they were added um it's a one-way

street so it's not like two-way

traffic's going through um there aren't

any curb Cuts or things like fire

hydrants that would prevent them uh I

know especially when we've had um uh

Staffing vacancies in the city Engineers

Department sometimes things don't get

the correct vetting uh when it comes to

things like requesting uh no parking

areas or something like that on streets

and it may have been a request from um

again the current or SL former Park

property owner here or some residents

nearby but from what I could tell there

was no justification for the

installation of the signs and while the

city engineer indicated some preliminary

agreement on that he hasn't fully gone

through everything and said all right I

like looked at our paperwork and yes

these were all vetted and approved uh so

he seems to think that there's a good

possibility that they could be removed

uh which would then accommodate the um

uh vehicles of any either customers or

workers of the business although I don't

think they really do customers because

they uh repackage meat and um send it

out for um wholesale and Retail um sales

uh so given all those things we felt

that the uh nature of the business and

the conditions and context of the

neighborhood uh did justify the request

U and it is a special exception so the

burden of proof on the applicant is a

bit lower than if it were say a variance

application um so all of that being said

uh the Planning Commission recommended

that the

zoning hearing board approved the

request with the following conditions uh

the applicant must remove the informal

parking spaces along the rear of the

building as such spaces prevent

vehicular access to the subject property

and the property of the north and that

was what I had just uh described a

little bit in the applicant at the

Planning Commission meeting indicated he

was um willing to paint over those lines

so that uh they're removed uh the

applicant should create a secure indoor

location for bike storage or construct a

concrete pad with bike racks uh in the

grass strip adjacent to the vehicular

access point um and we just want to make

sure that uh those are formally you know

established on site so that it's not

just oh yeah I'm going to have people

bike and then they're locking it up to a

bench you know in the in the shop or

something like there's a a way for them

to be locked up securely so that they

don't have to worry about them being

stolen uh and finally uh the applicant

must install physical obstructions along

the curb along the frontage with both

Emerald Street and North 7 Street which

prevent illegal sidewalk parking

observed during site visits to and by

the property um and the board members

may recall we made um this a condition

of the review of 425 South 17th Street

right uh to prevent that because that

was pretty consistent and as you saw in

the existing condition photos in the

case report there's a car park there um

when I did the site visit so um in a

similar vein we want to make sure that

we're not um accommodating sidewalk

parking it tends to be pretty rampant up

there along North s Street uh on a lot

of the businesses uh Fring there so if

we're able to prevent that granting the

relief that the applicant's requesting

uh we feel that that's a good tradeoff

um as far as to what obstructions are

required um I noted we discussed at the

Planning Commission meeting that after

the zoning hearing board presuming an

approval we could discuss what options

were best whether small concrete blocks

or small little ballards we've had both

used um to address those uh the Planning

Commission recommends that the zoning

hearing board approve the request for

the following reasons approval of the

zoning relief request will enable the

occupancy and productive reuse of a

property that has been vacant since

2018 uh and there is sufficient on

street parking along the property

Frontage to accommodate worker vehicles

and the applicant is committed to

providing secure bike storage for

workers let swearing

M ra your

hand full name and address name and

address okay

information you provide is going to be

truth nothing but the truth right thank

you I have one question for you Jeff and

with the and maybe miss Cameron this

maybe go back to the

city yes uh sidewalk parking is

rampant and um HPD is enforcing they're

going through and they're they're

basically stepping up the enforcement of

people rolling their own and and parking

on the sidewalks

um with this location could be affected

behind that if if if if they do not

address what the Planning Commission

stated okay about rocking off the

basically putting some type of uh

obstructions there at the curve to stop

your customers or your workers being

able to park on the sidewalk and the

second thing new parking I'm very

familiar with the emo Street between

Jefferson and seven

street that you had a couple of

Residential Properties there not anymore

I mean I that used to be it was almost a

commercial there was some commercial

businesses that at that area and at the

Western end of this block as you can

maybe see in the existing conditions

photos there actually is on street

parking um in front of the homes that

are kind of near the intersection with

Jefferson Street um you know there are

driveway curb Cuts in the middle of the

block and of course it's sensible there

to have no parking uh within a sight

line area but for the frontage of the

building with the uh uh on Emerald

Street especially I couldn't understand

why that was there um it didn't see like

I said it seems to be maybe a year and a

half or so old um and I'm trying to get

clarity on that with the city

engineers's office but my guess is um I

I'm expecting them to probably be

removed is my

exp make the turn off of going but but

what I will say to the applicants point

you know they'll be having box trucks

making deliveries um is what they

testify to during the Planning

Commission uh and actually I'm not even

sure I I'm not even sure that Emerald

Street or any of the streets that it

would feed necessarily are appropriate

for uh tractor trailers so I don't know

that like necessarily you'd be getting a

whole lot of these um on there and in

the event that some that a tractor

trailer is delivering to either this

property or just to the south on Emerald

Street there is parking along seven

street that they can use in parking part

of the prop also had the information was

in the comp plan remember comp plan

seven Street was a major quarter that

was basically trying to be addressed

right will this have any conflict with

if we choose if we choose to implement

that plan or pieces of that plan I mean

I don't think so um I think what you

know what the comp plan envisions what

it envisions for pretty much every

neighborhood and Corridor is having an

active Corridor with occupied properties

um and not having uh you know vacant

properties vacant BL uh vacant Lots um

and so uh you know promoting the type of

um economic development that would

actually you know occupy properties and

provide economic um opportunities for uh

residents um presumably that's who would

bike uh be able to bike to the uh

business um would I think be a priority

okay I apologize had here so talk talk

to me about your about your plan or your

project okay um

sanitation okay or I sanitation stuff

that you don't pack that you're not

boxing or you you're going to discard is

there has been any additional plans made

to basically for dumpsters or something

or basically moving that so it doesn't

sit during a hot summer and holding your

notes so the uh like types of customers

right this isn't a retail store or

anything like that where people are

coming in so uh you know how many I

don't know people or whatever would be

visiting the store on a daily basis

or okay and and and kind of through out

the day right not okay and how about

like the hours of operation what's the

plan for that would you

say okay

okay and the three

conditions

um and I know that you I saw the

discussion obviously at the Planning

Commission because I know applicant was

kind of wondering like what would I need

for the third condition to um uh kind of

stop the sidewalk uh uh parking and um

then so even so if it's approved that

can then can kind of be worked out

correct yeah I mean I I we try not to

have a one-size it's all like I've had

people do kind of like lower thicker

Ballers that are maybe 18 inch so

they're kind of less visually obtrusive

I guess but you can't drive over them

I've had um the applicant for 425 South

17 Street did like three foot high ones

uh that were a bit skinnier but based

closely enough that they prevented

encroachment so small little conrete

blocks if you know if they're large

enough and sufficiently um approximate

to one another would prevent driving

onto it so it's it's kind of uh we want

to make want to provide at least a

little flexibility uh for the applicant

to find something that works for them in

a cost-effective manner and and it and

it is something that the Planning

Commission has recommended and this

board has approved for other when it's

really an issue and in this instance it

it is for that location so yeah

okay you need something that's an ed

yeah it stop immovable it need it needs

to probably be you know higher than um

most Vehicles wheelbase that they can't

drive over it essentially so which is

why you were saying the lower something

lower but wider but you can't park right

and it would be more right I mean

centered in the S you know sidewalks so

they can't what would be like the strips

that are like right along the curb so

there's room to put oh the strips right

yeah there's room to put these in

without blocking the actual side okay

right so I mean you could put them five

feet apart or even 10 feet apart

somebody can't drive through those for

the most part and still gives people

right it's not just a consistent thing

it's every so often so then a car can't

fit not like a fence B Bas that you're

put right it's just so many along the

thing so to prevent you know anybody

parking there pulling along you know

definitely could be some distance

between them to to work that

yeah okay so

um I'm going to approve this based off

the recommendations made by the Planning

Commission but really paying attention

to item number the third condition

because you've asked questions about it

and I'm visualizing and I I don't want

this is a city Revenue generator because

it will become one if they if people

don't adhere to it and by putting a

baller something there for prevention

it'll have people move not make an

attempt to park on sidewalk so but I am

so you approve with the three conditions

with the three conditions stated yes by

the Planning Commission okay yes

all right written decision will written

decision will be sent to you within 45

days it'll be less than that and that's

it though and then you can just work on

whatever that will be but yes the yeah

we have some photos of some recent

installations that I can send you or a

couple other

options great thank you thank you so

since I'm the only one in meeting is

officially adjourned okay and I'll see

everybody next month um

yeah I

remember Mr

Mr 17 I remember that because we had

that discussion about people parking

here and Tom's organization is starting

to enforce and people are screaming okay

but