Harrisburg City Council Work Session 09/16/2025

Uh, the time is 5:35.

Uhoh.

Okay. The time is 5:35 p.m. I would like

to call our work session to order.

Mr. Trudale, could you please call the

role?

Miss Daniels,

Miss Davis,

>> present.

>> Miss Green,

>> present.

>> Mr. Jones,

>> here.

>> Miss Rolls,

>> present.

>> Mr. Rodriguez,

>> present.

>> Miss Hill,

>> present.

Thank you. Uh, we will begin our meeting

this evening with the work of the

administration committee. We have one

resolution for discussion, resolution 57

of 2025. Mr. Trudale, could you please

read it into the record?

>> Resolution 57205,

a resolution authorizing the city of

Harrisburg to negotiate and enter into

an intergovernmental cooperation

agreement, the agreement with the

Suscuana Regional Transportation

Authority to facilitate the construction

of the Capitol Region Operations and

Maintenance Facility and Transfer Center

and all associated site and access

improvements.

>> Thank you. Um, I believe Mr. Farre is

joining us via Zoom.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay,

>> I'm here.

>> Great. If you wouldn't mind utilizing

this microphone here and making sure

that it's really close to your mouth so

that everybody listening is able to hear

you.

>> Okay. Absolutely. Uh, all good.

>> Yes. um didn't know if the

administration would like to begin with

any overview or information on their end

regarding resolution 57

>> only in that this uh project and various

pieces have been before the council

before for land development plans as

you're aware it's a very large project

up on Cameron Street um uh through the

work of the city with the SERTA and

rapid transit uh part of this is taking

over eventually what is currently the

parks maintenance building uh in

conjunction with that part of this

project is building the city a new park

maintenance uh facility on the same

large footprint but in a different place

it is right now. Uh we are authorized by

law to enter intergovernmental

cooperation agreements to help each

other with services. This is simply one

of those projects that allows the

project to keep moving forward. Um, on

the back end of this, there will be some

technical things that come because there

there's going to be, as we've talked

about before, streets laid. Um,

boundaries will be closed. There'll be a

swap of land. So, there'll be other

documents that will just have to come up

for the history of it to be clear where

the where the where the lines are when

we're done. Um, those can all be because

it's an intergovernmental process on the

back end. you know, you do not want to

lock it down to the point that you have

to come back again because a line has to

move because of some finding in the

middle of construction. So, we have we

have worked with Certa to come up with a

draft intergovernmental agreement. Um,

both it requires both the approval of

this body for the city and for their

board. Um, and tonight is simply just a

simple overview of that and uh I'm sure

the folks from SERTA uh our our project

manager and and Mr. Far who runs it can

speak to the details.

Thank you. I'll turn the floor over to

you and Mr. Farre. I don't know who

would like to begin speaking first.

I

>> I will take the lead.

>> Okay.

>> Uh can you hear me? Okay.

>> Yes. Thank you.

>> So,

>> yeah. So when we were in front of you

last time, uh there was some discussion

among the council asking for an

agreement of this nature to really

define all of of the steps that are kind

of in front of us and and I think you

know Neil did a great job setting the

stage for for this conversation. So

thank you for that. Um so you know that

we are um moving forward that this is uh

outlining really just those terms of

understanding as we move forward. So

there'll be some land swaps. You know

initially uh the first part of this

project is the city parks and recck

building. So um we are um days away from

releasing the request for proposals um

to solicit bids for the construction of

that. Um this is the last step for us to

release those bids. So we're moving

forward. If you've been down Cameron

Street, you can see there's been a lot

of activity. Uh most of those buildings

are now demolished and so we're really

setting the stage for our future and and

really this agreement uh just gets that

ball rolling. It's the last sort of

hurdle I think. Well, we as Neil said,

we have some things in front of us yet,

but we're really moving forward now.

>> Thank you. Would you like to introduce

yourself and share anything that you'd

like to about resolution 57?

>> Yes. Uh good evening. Uh name is Bill

Schnore with Stantech. Um site civil

engineer primarily responsible for the

land development plan submission

coordination with the city with regard

to approval of the plan. Uh as as has

been mentioned uh we have been before

council a few times. uh the the parks

maintenance facility that is uh out uh

scheduled to go out to bid very fairly

soon has been before council and

approved and we're really uh right now

on the third phase of the land

development process which is the primary

rapid transit facility and this uh uh

intergovernmental agreement as is a

critical piece and uh as mentioned was

suggested by council previously.

>> Thank you.

>> Welcome.

>> Um I don't have any questions regarding

the resolution. I'll open the floor to

my colleagues who may. I'll begin with

Councilwoman Daniels. Any questions?

>> God bless you.

>> I don't have any questions. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Davis. Any

questions?

>> Oh, my questions have been answeredly.

Thank you.

>> Thank you, Vice President Green. Any

questions?

>> Um not really. This doesn't cost the

city any liquid money, right? Like we

don't have to put any cash up front,

right? Or at all. We're just swapping

properties essentially getting a new

building.

>> There is a $300,000 match, which is a

very small percentage required for the

larger uh monies that are involved.

>> All right. Thank you. I don't have any

other questions.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Ros. Any

questions?

>> Uh, good evening. Thank you for being

here tonight. No, I don't have any

questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Rodriguez. Any

questions?

>> Thank you. No further uh no questions

for me. Thank you all for being here

this evening. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Councilman Jones.

>> No questions.

>> Thank you. Um thank you, gentlemen, for

joining us this evening. Uh with no

further discussion, I move to add

resolution 57 of 2025 to our next

legislative session agenda for a formal

vote. This concludes the business of the

administration committee.

Next we have the budget and finance

committee. I will defer to our budget

and finance committee chair vice

president Green for discussion.

Thank you President Bowers. Uh we will

be discussing resolution 62 of 2025. Mr.

Truv, could you read it into the record,

please?

>> Resolution 62 2025, a resolution

approving the fifth proposed 2025 budget

reallocation.

Thank you. Is there anyone here from the

administration that would like to

present this resolution?

And just as they make their way to the

front, um I would like to note and just

say thank you to all the work for Mr.

Timothy Brooks who um accepted another

position uh I believe with the county.

So he's no longer with us. Uh so just he

will be sorely missed uh especially as

we enter budget season and he was our

budget manager. But just want to say

thank you to him for all of the work

that he did for us um and for the city

and the residents. Uh his last day was

last Tuesday or excuse me last Friday.

Um unfortunately I didn't find out until

after the meeting Tuesday so I couldn't

make the announcement then but just want

to say thank you to him for all the work

that he's done.

>> Vice President Green I will second that

motion.

And um if you think you're gonna miss

him, I'm gonna miss him more.

>> It's all right. You've had time to to

get acclimated, so now you get to jump

right in, right?

>> It's called Baptism by Fire. Yes.

>> Yes.

>> All right. When Whenever you guys are

ready, uh you can give us an overview of

resolution 62.

>> Okay. My name is Bob Kennock, finance

director, and my voice. I apologize for

this. It's an outgrowth of the surgery I

had a couple weeks ago. So, I'm gonna

let Brian be my speaker if that's okay

with you guys.

>> All right. Uh, thank you, Bob. Uh, good

evening, city council members. Thank

you, President Hill. Thank you, Vice

President Green. Um, up on the screen as

as we lead into this is the fifth

proposed budget reallocation for this

year. Um

there's four items on this and they're

described and noted by the involve

footnotes. Um I'll start with uh

footnote B which pertains to the parks

and recreation fund

and and what this is this was

communication received directly from

staff there in parks and wreck uh to Tim

prior to his departure and they're

anticipating a stronger amount of

contribution coming in related to the

various events

that they they manage and oversee. So

they're increasing that revenue by

$10,000

in the revenue line and then

distributing it accordingly by

increasing both services and supply line

accounts at $5,000 each. So that's the

special parks and recreation fund item

B. Item C, uh, and this was another

communication that Tim received ahead of

his leave, uh, Bureau of Police, um,

from the special assistant to the police

commissioner. They're looking at their

overtime line for this year, and it's

it's getting, uh, down to a a lower

amount. So, they would like to increase

that line by reclassing essentially

salaries and wages

uh that are uh occurring and and

reclassing $428,000

from regular salaries up to the overtime

line.

Uh that's item C in in the general fund.

Footnote C. Footnote D

um pertains to the general fund as well

and involves

uh two items. The the first item relates

to to an atypical item. We really very

rarely does the city have uh refund of

prior year revenue of this nature which

is coming out of the uh activity that

the the bureau of codes oversees.

So from prior year there were there

there there was revenue receive related

uh comprised of both inspection

and permit fees revenue. Uh so there's

no budget again in that line to uh

distribute or or or disperse prior year

revenue. So that's it's it's sort of an

outlier when it comes to uh that type of

transaction. So the increase there is is

$39,5005.50

and there's a little bit of a built-in

cushion in the event that uh there might

be another occurrence of that that may

happen prior to the end of the current

year.

So it'll cure that negative and also

allow $10,000 to remain available if it

if it's needed.

the the bigger item pertains to

uh the bigger item pertains to to

Capitol Area Transit CAT which of course

as we just heard Suscoana Regional

Transportation Authority. This was a

timing difference when we were planning

the budget in prior year in November. We

took a look at the previous history uh

that the city distributes

uh as as local supporting match

distribution for uh for uh for SRTA.

And at that time we used an an estimate

and then later on the the the formalized

letter that came to the mayor for

committing to what the actual amount was

instead of $376,000

it it it resulted in a an updated amount

of $47,000

a little bit more than $47,000.

So the the shortfall there is is what's

being asked uh for that particular line

to increase that line by $31,223.

And the city distributes this annual fee

on a quarterly basis. They they invoice

the city on a quarterly basis and to

date the city has paid the first three

quarters. So this is looking forward to

the final quarter of 2025.

Um, at at this point, Vice President

Green, I'll I'll stop for the moment,

you know, for any any comments or

questions.

Uh, I don't have any at the moment. I'll

open up to my colleagues. Uh, if you

have any questions on

section B, C, or D. I'll start to my far

right here with Councilwoman Daniels.

Any questions or comments?

>> No questions.

>> Councilwoman Davis?

>> No questions for me either. Thank you.

>> Thank you,

>> President Hill. I don't have any

questions. Thank you,

>> Councilwoman Ross.

>> Good evening again. I just have one for

clarification. Sure.

>> Um I believe you said in the parks and

wreck with the $10,000

we're projecting that that's going to

come in. So it's um we're not sure, but

if it doesn't, then I think you said

something about we'll have some cushion

to make that up. Was it in footnote um C

or D?

>> Oh yeah. Yeah. The cushion I referred to

was was footnote DNote actually. Yes.

>> Okay. So that will be there just in case

that 10,000 or not doesn't come in or

partial of it comes in. Correct.

>> No, I just want that's why I'm

clarifying. I'm not sure.

>> So I'm following you. You started with

parks and wreck which is really the the

$10,000 line is as part of footnote D is

not that's general fund. It's not parks

and wreck. Yes, I know that.

>> Okay.

>> But the parks and wreck, it was you said

something about you used the word

cushion. I believe

>> that that was okay. I'm I'm I'm sorry to

confuse. Yeah, the cushion I meant was

for footnote D. The 10,000

coincidentally, it's 10,000 as well as

you indicate in parks and wreck. So

again that was based on the the staff

member there at parks and rec feels

strongly that their contribution

amount will occur before the end of the

year at this level.

>> So to want to balance that increased

revenue anticipation by by increasing

expense lines as well.

>> Okay. Thank you. Sorry.

>> No no no problem.

>> That was it for me. Oh did you wanted to

say something?

>> That's it.

>> Okay. Council member Rodriguez.

>> Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you for

joining us this evening. Um, Mr.

McCarth, could you just elaborate a

little bit more on the overtime for the

police?

Um,

I wish I could do it very succinctly and

clearly because I wasn't the one that

took the the input from uh from police

on that, but it's not uh surprising in

in in terms of the you know, the

estimate is made for the year back when

the budget is prepared. Uh overtime is

always a tough thing to wrangle when

when as we get closer to to year end. So

in this case, they're they they've had

it to the point where it's been it's

been hit pretty heavily, you know,

coming into the first three quarters of

this year. So their sense is they know

currently with just $17,000 available

that that should be depleted. So they're

just trying to avoid a negative

appearing on the overtime line and and

they realize that there's a good opport.

So it's it so it's sort of it's yeah

it's it's a um related to budgeted

positions within that budget unit, but

they're they're trying to uh be

proactive to clean up the overtime line

to to prevent it from going negative.

>> Okay,

>> that's that makes sense. Kind of due to

the shortage of the compliment of the

staff we have, they're going to have to

work more hours. So that makes that

makes sense. Um that's all I have. Thank

you, gentlemen. Right.

>> All right.

>> Thank you, Councilman Jones.

>> Yes. Um, thank you, Vice President

Green. Um, can you start from the

beginning and do this all? No, I have I

have no questions.

>> Thank you. I believe we're ready for

>> Give it a shot.

>> I believe we're ready for section A

then.

>> All right. Um, so I I left this one uh

to the end here, but before I move

forward, I just want to double check

with the city solicitor on on on

footnote A.

Um,

>> so so I had to have conversation before

the meeting with the budget chair and

the council president that there may be

another one coming uh when we have more

specific information. Uh, as you know,

we have had a three-year window of

construction costs with the uh with the

field over on the stadium. We're getting

very close to the end. The projected

close of construction was September

30th. We understood as of today it's

running slightly behind. There are um

some cost overruns which happens. Um

there was an inspection I understand

from Major League Baseball or their

agent that said one of the items had to

be done a little bit differently. So

there's a handful of change orders that

are coming in and that will cost a

little bit more.

>> Was that with the railings or something

or ADA? I forget. It it had to do with

where the location of one restroom was.

It was too far away to walk and they had

to put it closer and once you're doing

plumbing, it it just costs money. Um so

but so the number they don't have the

precise number yet what it will be. Um I

think Mr. McCutchen will be able to

speak. There's a negative line item

right now. This reallocation tonight

will satisfy that. Um but the

anticipation is there will be one more

coming down sometime in the near term.

Um it would be great to say we could

have it by next week. I don't think we

know that we can have it by next week.

>> Um so to just to continue on with this,

as you know, this project covers

multiple years and um to date overall

when uh the the expendit the

expenditures got rolling last year. So

right now when you couple that with

what's happened so far in 2025

uh this particular project is is right

around um uh 12.3 million is is the

total right now uh the total spend. So

the the negative that's happening uh

pertains to of course actual spend and

and commitments that are out there uh

with within the fund. So this 600,000 is

is being proposed to to cure that

negative and to also have a little bit

of uh availability in in the event that

there may be uh additional uh related

change orders pertaining to the

commitments that are already uh in

effect. Uh I I was talking with uh

director uh facilities director Dave

Baker on this and and and the

expectation is for this project to soon

be completed.

uh within within the fall or or or the

late fall. So there there it's coming to

the point where uh we're we're able to

finalize the the anticipated expenses

including any change order amounts that

would affect existing commitments.

But this this is this is almost like a

step one to cure this current negative

that's uh that's existing at at the

present time.

Any questions related to schedule A? I

will start to my far left this time with

Councilman Jones.

>> Um I don't really have any questions

regarding this. Uh my question would

probably be for uh Neil. Um I remember

when we first did this with uh FMB and

um there was something that was supposed

to be returning to us.

>> There still is. So we have a Rack P

grant for up to $6 million which is a

you know it's a 50/50 match. will

plainly have spent uh everything to get

the match. Um and then that's just a

process with the Commonwealth. Um they

assign a third party uh entity to be our

communication person entity that

oversees these. As far as I know, the

reimbursement hasn't started yet. I

from my world, I don't think in terms of

government works it'll be here this

year, but you never know. There's not a

budget yet up on the hill, so I'm not

sure they're focusing on reimbursements

at the moment.

>> All right. Yeah, that was my question. I

just wanted to make sure I didn't miss

that money,

>> but we're guaranteed the reimbursement.

So, the $6 million is coming. It's just

when does it get here?

>> No further questions.

>> Thank you, Councilman Rodriguez.

>> No questions for me. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Ross. No

questions for me. Thank you. Thank you,

President Hill.

>> I don't have any questions. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Davis.

>> Thank you. Thanks for being here for the

explanation of these numbers and

documents. Thank you.

>> Thank you. And Councilwoman Daniels,

>> questions. Thank you.

>> Thank you. I don't really have any

questions for you all. Um I do have a

request if we can get an update from the

contractor as we're uh coming to an end.

Um just to come down and kind of explain

how things are going. Uh some of that

MBEWB participation rate and just a

presentation to the public of the

project itself and and where things

stand. Um I think that's very important

to us. I think we asked for it in the

beginning. So

>> So that would be the construction

manager firm that we have.

>> Yes. Okay,

>> thank you.

>> Alexander.

>> Yes, Alexander.

>> Excuse me. I seem to have caught a

little something. Um, I think that is

all for the budget and finance

committee. Thank you all for being here

tonight and I look forward to working

with you through budget season.

>> Okay, very good. Thank you.

>> Thank you. What is your pleasure for

resolution 62?

>> I would ask that it move to our next

legislative session.

>> Thank you.

Next, we have the business of the

community and economic development

committee. I will defer to our community

and economic development committee

chair, Councilwoman Daniels, to lead

discussion.

>> Thank you. Um, so we'll begin the big

business of um the community and

economic development committee. U Mr.

Trizle, could you please read resolution

uh 59 hyphen 2025 into the record,

please?

>> Resolution 59 2025. A resolution

approving the preliminary/final law

consolidation and land development plan

for the Suscoana Regional Transportation

Authority to facilitate the construction

of the capital region operations and

maintenance facility and transfer center

along with associated site and access

improvements.

>> Thank you. U Mr. Knight, if you don't

mind introducing yourself and giving us

a brief background on this resolution.

>> Uh sure. Uh Jeffrey Knight, uh planning

director with the city of Harrisburg. Um

so uh this project is um

for the uh crux of the uh startup

project that uh council has heard a

little bit about both tonight and in a

previous uh review of uh the proposal

for the Harrisburg new Harrisburg parks

and recreational facility uh in the

block generally bounded by her street uh

State Street, Cameron Street, and the

Harrisburg Cemetery. Um and so this uh

proposal is kind of that next step of

that project. Um and really kind of the

final step uh and involves uh the

demolition of uh the existing buildings

um that are in the block uh bounded by

um Forester Street uh North 12th Street,

Goodwill Drive and Cameron Street. It

used to have the uh Goodwill Industries

building was located there uh as well as

some other uh uses. Uh and in addition

to that uh the Harrisburg parks and

recreational facility just to the east

of that uh and then the um vacation of

rights away uh surrounding in this

general area. Um and then the

consolidation of those properties and

the construction of a new SERTA

operations and maintenance facility. Um

and then the final phase of the whole

project will involve the demolition of

the existing uh SERA operations and

maintenance facility. Uh so this is

really kind of step two of the larger uh

project. Um and I think the um

applicants have uh provided some uh

visuals in previous meetings and uh can

probably discuss a little bit more. Uh

but the facility is going to be um all

new uh construction uh that uh

consolidates a lot of the staff uh that

they have um spread out in various areas

into a single uh building. Uh there will

also be a um transfer center uh

constructed uh between the building and

Cameron Street. Um and uh as I'll kind

of discuss in the conditions uh of

approval a little um we've been working

with Certa and the project team um on uh

that aspect of the project because it is

um necessary to build that uh as part of

this larger project and that will

involve a relocation of the existing

transfer center from Market Square out

to this location. But the end goal is to

have a transfer center that is maybe a

little closer to uh the train station.

Um, that's a small part of this, but I

did want to mention that uh up front so

that when we get to the conditions of

approval, it makes maybe a little bit

more sense. Um, but overall, the

proposal again is going to modernize

their operations uh make them more

efficient uh and allow uh SERTA to move

on with um some new uh projects and new

operations that they have in the future

that are kind of relying on um this

aspect uh of their facilities. Uh so

with that all being said, uh the

planning commission has recommended that

city council approve uh the project with

the following conditions. The project

must receive approval of the street

vacations for portions of Forester

Street, Goodwill Drive, and North 12th

Street as well as various other public

rights of way running through the

project site prior to filing the lock

consolidation and land development plan

set with the Dolphin County Recorder of

Deeds. Um, and I don't know if that's

part of that um, uh, intergovernmental

cooperations agreement to kind of

facilitate uh, the vacation and the

consolidation of this project site. Uh,

the applicant must secure approval of a

letter of map provision from FEMA so

that the development can proceed as

proposed and must eventually receive

approval from the flood plane

administrator for both the structural

demolitions on site uh, which have been

granted uh, as well as all new proposed

instruct construction including

buildings, fences and signs. Uh and the

project team uh has been in coordination

with FEMA on this particular aspect of

the project um because it relates to how

uh the site is going to be graded and

the elevation at which buildings will

eventually be constructed in their

relationship to the uh 100redyear flood

plane elevation uh in the Cameron Street

corridor. Uh the applicant should

coordinate with the city arborist to

increase the ecological impact and tree

canopy on site by incorporating native

tree species and pollinator plants

particularly particularly along the

western edge of the site around the

storm water retention infrastructure

which can also address localized air

pollution created by the Cameron Street

and State Street uh infrastructures. Uh

the proposed transfer center component

of the project should be considered a

temporary accommodation and the

applicant must continue long-range

coordination with the city on an

alternative location that enhances

coordination with the Harrisburg

Transportation Center better

accommodates rider origin destination

trips and more closely conforms to the

city's comprehensive plan as well as

previous studies developed by PennDOT

including the Harrisburg Transportation

Center TOD master plan from December

2017.

Uh and finally, the project should

install wider sidewalks along the

Cameron Street frontage or install a

planting strip between the curb and the

sidewalk to better protect protect

pedestrians from traffic. Uh the

planning commission recommends city

council approved the request for the

following reasons. The project will

expand and modernize Certa's operations

and maintenance facilities, consolidate

agency staffing, increase efficiency,

and improve their ability to provide

services to the region's residents,

businesses, and visitors. Uh the project

site is a conspicuous location at the

intersection of two state routes and the

removal of deteriorated and

underutilized buildings and replacement

of large expanses of imperous surface

with vegetation and a modern transit

facility building will bring aesthetic

improvements not only for passers by but

local residents and workers as well. And

finally, through coordination with FEMA,

the project will result in a site that

is flood plane compliant and more

resistant to future flood events in the

Paxton Creek corridor.

>> That's it.

>> Thank you. And for my edification,

what's a MAC application?

>> Pardon me.

>> What is a MAC application? Or I don't

know if I heard it accurately, the

application that's submitted to FEMA.

>> Oh, uh, sorry. It's a letter of map uh,

uh, revision. Uh, called it LOMER.

>> Okay. Yeah.

>> I was like, what's a MAC application?

Okay. Um, so if the applicant wouldn't

mind giving us a little bit of um I mean

we've covered some of this already, but

if you would like to articulate a little

bit more uh any issues or any um

concerns you have with this particular

resolution, this particular portion of

it.

>> Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, we uh have been

working closely with the city throughout

the process on all phases. Mr. Tonight,

uh we have reviewed the uh excuse me,

the case report. We are uh definitely

agreeable to all the conditions that

have been outlined as recommended

conditions for approval. Uh

and yeah, it's uh it it will be a modern

facility. We we're working through the

permitting process. the the one

mentioned here, number two, the LOMAR,

uh we've worked closely with FEMA, it's

been issued and is now in the public

comment period, which is like a 4 and a

half month process, but then once it

goes through that public comment period,

it will become effective at that point.

uh working with uh CRW on a number of uh

utility related issues uh or items and

uh along with permitting and the

conservation districts and D for the

NPDS permits. So permits are all

proceeding uh very well and uh we're in

a good position to move forward.

>> Thank you. And um have y'all looked at

the

have you compared the impervious surface

area of what the new prospect would look

what the new project will look like

versus what's there now and is will the

impervious area be less or more

>> yeah actually uh that is a good point it

is less impervious cover but in addition

to that and working with CRW and per

their request we have separated all

storm water runoff from the combined

sewer system into the separate storm

water system and to the point where the

uh combined sewer overflow

uh in that area uh discharge into Paxton

Creek would be able to be eliminated

according to CRW.

>> Okay. Thank you. And um and just to be

clear, this is 14 parcels into one.

>> I believe that is correct number. Yes.

>> And I think that's it for me. I'll start

asking my colleagues uh if you have any

questions. Uh Councilman Jones.

Um, no. I really have no questions. But

I do I do want to say, um, so far the

construction that was down there, um,

I'm interested in the I don't know if

that's some new techn technology, but

that was very how they knocked down the

stuff and then no dust was going

anywhere. That was where where did they

get that stuff from?

>> I

Yeah, I'm I know there are a couple

critical areas. Obviously, the uh the

the one building that's right right up

close to Cameron Street and they so they

had to uh selectively demolish that wall

or they plan to. I'm not quite sure if

they done it yet so that debris doesn't

fall into the rightway there.

>> Yeah, I really like how they did that.

It didn't just flow into the community,

cover people's cars and stuff. I think

they did a a wonderful job doing that,

but I'm sad they took down our old

hangout spot. That's some tiny.

No further questions. Thank you.

>> Councilman Rodriguez,

>> um just uh I was curious um speaking of

the old bar um how was the owner or

proprietor compensated once that

building went down for the property?

>> I'm not sure if Rich is still online,

but I my understanding it was a an

equitable

sale between both parties.

>> Okay. Long story short, they were

definitely taken care of.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. All right. Not. Yeah. It was not

eminent domain.

>> It was a sale.

>> Perfect.

>> That is correct.

>> Okay.

>> All right. Awesome. Thank you. No

further questions.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Ross.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Daniels. I don't

have any questions. Thank you. All mine

been answered with the um detailed

report.

>> Great. Thank you.

>> Uh President Hill,

>> I don't have any questions. Thank you,

>> Vice President Green.

>> Thank you. Thank you for being here. I

don't have any questions. Uh,

Councilwoman um Davis.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Daniels. Well,

one of my questions was answered um and

I had asked this question um at the last

meeting you were here about the Paxton

Creek and the storm water outfall pipe.

So, that has all been reconstructed and

you mentioned that's no longer going to

be utilized. the the combined sewer

overflow pipe.

>> Yes. Uh it as part of the

all three phases, the storm water will

be separated from that combined sewer

overflow pipe. And uh

and at the intersection of Cameron

Street and the signal there at Goodwill

Drive, there's an overflow structure

that if the storm water would flow up,

it would uh overflow through a pipe that

discharges uh in Paxton Creek. Uh that

would no longer be needed.

>> Okay. because of all the storm waters

being separated and put in other storm

water pipe uh storm water separate.

>> Thank you for clarifying.

>> Thank you.

>> And you mentioned the transportation

center is going to be moved to I think

you mentioned near the train station or

>> uh so yes so as part of this project um

the transfer the transfer center will be

relocated from market square um to this

site. Uh but the long-term goal um is to

move it closer to the train station so

that you have um you can do connections

like take a train, take a bus in to

train station. It also puts it a little

closer to um you know the state workers

uh the hospital uh where you're going to

probably generate more ridership. Um the

uh serta and the project team have been

working uh pretty closely with us on

that. It's been more a matter of finding

an appropriate location for that and uh

maybe developer willing to incorporate

that aspect into their larger project.

And as you're probably aware, there's

still, you know, vacant uh lots along

the Market Street corridor there where

there hasn't been um new development

proposals, but when they do come in, we

intend on working with whomever those um

entities are to see if they're able to

incorporate a transfer center into that

part of the project.

>> Okay. Thank you very much. That's it for

me. Thank you. And um this is a very

imprecise question, but I didn't pick up

on this before. Um how close is the

construction getting to the Harrisburg

Cemetery?

>> Um

none none of the proposed construction

will be uh will impact the cemetery. It

the property line does adjoin. So yeah,

at the bottom uh the cemetery

uh there's a

large portion of trees and a slope there

and their property the cemetery property

line is down at the toe of the slope at

the bottom of the slope. So, uh, the two

property lines do a join, but the,

uh, none of the construction is proposed

to be outside the property line or on

the, uh,

>> well, it can be, yeah, it can be outside

the property line, but like I just So,

I'm trying to picture it. So, like how

do you have a sense of how close

Mr. N Well, I would say if you can uh

picture in your mind where the existing

parks and recck facility is, I don't

believe it's intended to go much beyond

that. Maybe uh part of the access drive

around the back of the facility maybe,

but there's not going to be any

structure like that close to uh the

cemetery property line.

>> Okay. Okay. Well, for full disclosure,

I'm a fan of the Harrisburg Cemetery. I

think it's a very undervalued resource

in

>> as my

>> in Pennsylvania. So maybe something to

think about is like a pathway to the

cemetery for folks to go on walks as

they're coming to and from work.

That's pretty much it for me. Um any

other questions?

>> Okay.

>> No, there is a a hole in the fence that

I used to call

>> from middle school.

>> No, it's

Yeah, it's it's a stunning place. Um

Okay. I I would recommend that we put

resolution 59 hyphen 2025 into the

record. And that's it for your

resolution today. Thank you.

>> Wait, did I say that correctly? I'm

inputting it on the legislative. Okay.

So, the next, if Mr. Trrisel, if you

don't mind reading resolution 64- 2025

into the record, please.

>> Resolution 64 2025. A resolution appro

A resolution approving the preliminary

final land development plan for 508

and 510 North Second Street submitted by

WCI Partners LP to convert the existing

office building into multifamily

dwellings and expanded site and access

improvements.

>> Okay, thank you. Um so Mr. Knight, if

you don't mind giving us a little

background on this resolution and Sure.

Go ahead. Uh so uh this uh proposal is

uh for uh two adjoined buildings at 508

and 510 North Second Street. I believe

they were um previously owned by Wix

Swinger and Widner the law firm uh which

relocated out of there. Uh purchased by

the applicant who intends on um creating

five units in the one building and six

in the other building. Um the uh

proposal does not involve uh any

substantive changes to the outside of

the buildings. Um the properties are

located in the old Harrisburg uh

municipal historic district and

therefore if there were any changes they

would uh need to be approved. Um but for

the most part this is just an internal

configuration of the property. Uh the

proposal did require um the uh securing

approval of a variance application uh

from the zoning hearing board which was

received. Um so uh the current uh as far

as the current proposal is concerned uh

city council review um of the uh land

development plan is the last um applica

uh last step in the application. Uh the

applicants I do not believe are like

consolidating the two parcels um into

one. So they'll remain as uh two

separate parcels. Um,

so it's a fairly straightforward uh

development similar to um many of the

others that have occurred downtown where

we have uh commercial businesses um kind

of decamping for the suburbs or maybe

just people are starting to do more work

from home and uh these uh commercial

businesses need less of this space. Um

so we're seeing um them be purchased and

converted back into the residential uses

that they were um when they were

initially constructed. uh but instead of

being single family homes, there tend to

be apartments now. Um so it's along

those same lines. Uh with that being

said, uh the planning commission has

recommended the city council approve the

request for the following conditions.

The applicant must receive a zoning

hearing board approval of the requisite

zoning relief requests submitted

concurrently with the land development

plan for the proposed conversion and

conform to any conditions imposed by

that body. And as uh noted, uh they did

receive that approval. Uh the planning

commission recommends city council

approve the request for the following

reasons. The adaptive reuse of vacant

and underutilized office spaces into

apartment buildings is a long-term trend

for the downtown neighborhood. Uh other

conversions of former office buildings

in the surrounding neighborhood have

demonstrated the proposed use will not

adversely impact the character of the

neighborhood and the project will help

retain existing architecturally and

historically significant buildings

endangered not only by the threat of

extended vacancy but by the

deteriorating buildings to the north. Um

and that's a reference to 512 and 514

North Second Street, which if anybody's

familiar with those, um they've been

shuttered uh and condemned for decades

almost now. and uh they're um they've

kind of remarkably been standing, but

they're attached to uh these buildings.

So, um you know, working on securing

these will hopefully help uh with the

eventual redevelopment of those two

structures as well. Uh and then finally,

the proposed reuse will add new

residents to the neighborhood to

activate the street on nights and

weekends and grow a customer base to

support local businesses and will

provide additional units to the downtown

housing inventory.

>> And what was the variance that was

requested? Uh it was for relief from the

uh density regulations of the zoning

code.

>> Okay. Um and

is this building north or south of State

Street?

>> It is north.

>> Okay. Um so if the applicant wouldn't

mind giving a little introduction about

the project and timelines and what your

expectations are.

>> Sure. Uh thank you uh for having me. Uh

my name is Dave Butcher um with WCI

Partners. Uh we've been doing real

estate uh development in the city for

about 20 years now. Um this project uh

as the the property as uh Jeff had

summarized um was an office building for

many years. It was the office was the

headquarters of Wix Wenger. Um they have

moved out of the city and they were

selling their building. It's been listed

for about six months. Um, we purchased

it with uh the intent to convert it to

apartments. Um, and we worked with our

apartment to lay out 11 units in in both

buildings. Um, we'd like to get started

if um uh if the proposal is approved by

council right away. So hopefully right

away means uh first second week of

October, we would pull a demo permit um

and then get rolling. Project probably

take about 12 months. Okay. Thank you.

And I think everything else

was answered in the in the materials.

Um, so I'll open up for questions. I'll

start with Councilman Jones.

>> No questions at this time.

>> Okay. Councilman Rodriguez.

>> No questions for me. Thank you.

>> Councilwoman Ross,

>> go on. Thank you. I was just wondering,

will you be also the um property manager

for the building? Okay. Thank you.

>> Sure.

>> That was for me.

>> Thank you. Uh, President

Thank you. I just had a question around

affordability of these units. Um, so is

that something that you are considering?

>> So the prices that we're looking at for

this building right now are in 11 to

1200 range. They'll all be onebedrooms.

Um, I looked uh online at the current

median rent in the city and it said

1300. I didn't verify the accuracy of

that, but so we're below the median rent

in the city. Um

at this particular project um what we

sometimes do is look at um our total

portfolio. So we have about 300 units

currently that we developed and managed.

Um and I just looked at the stats with

our team. Um so uh 36 of those units are

below $1,000 a month. So of the 36 or

12%

um

What we try to do when we're looking at

uh these individual projects is okay,

what is what are the prices that we need

to get the appraised value that'll cover

the construction costs.

>> So sometimes on an individual project,

the rents need all need to be at a

certain point to get that appraised

value to cover what your costs will be.

But on other projects, there's room to

be flexible with the unit type and the

rent type. Um, so what I've encouraged

our team to look at and what we try to

look at and I think is helpful for many

of us to look at is sometimes a

particular project might be unable to

carry a certain number of affordable

units because of the cost constraints,

but the total amount of units that a

company has or developed um can fit into

that depending on the property. Sorry,

that's kind of a really wordy answer to

your question, but um the short answer

is we do have a lot of we do have a

significant percentage of affordable

units. Um the units at this property

will be under the median at about 85 90%

under the median.

>> Okay,

>> sorry.

>> That's okay. Thank you for sharing. Um I

think if I did my math correctly, I

think it would only be like one or two

units. It wouldn't have to be all 11. So

I would encourage um consideration.

>> Sure. Yeah. And portfoliowwide we are in

that one to two units on average.

>> Okay.

>> Thanks.

>> Yep.

>> Vice President Green.

>> I don't have any questions. Thank you.

>> Councilwoman Davis.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Daniels. So,

thank you for being here this evening.

Sure. In your long-term vision, do you

foresee yourself um also buying the

other two properties that are connected,

the condemned properties after you fix

these two and then buying those and

fixing those up too and also renting

those out.

>> So, we are we would love to see um the

current owner of those um proceed with

uh what they received approvals for. So

I believe they had received approvals to

demolish those structures and redevelop.

There's an approved land development

plan for those.

>> Correct. So those structures

>> it's been a while I think property

changed hands that time time but uh

there is still an active um uh land for

those two properties for that site I

should say those two properties are

expected to come

And so we're in communication with that

owner and we are um it's our

understanding that the plan to demolish

those will be proceeding soon and we're

encouraging that because we would like

that demolition activity to occur before

we finish and move people in because

it's a lot of noise and dust that would

then impact our residents. So we want

that to occur while we're doing

construction.

>> That makes sense.

And

You mentioned this was advertised for

six months prior to you purchasing the

property

>> about that.

>> Where did you find it? On what site or

did you

>> Yeah. No. Um it was it was one of the

commercial real estate sites that we

found the property. Um we just looked at

it. they had listed it at a price that

um just would not make the conversion

work and then um yeah they lowered the

price and it came down. Does the city

have those sites those um properties

listed all the you know properties in

the city that are actually can be bought

and

>> I don't know if you're referencing

particular

properties. I don't know.

>> I think this one was NIC, one of the

local pokers. They have a website, Niki

Properties. Yeah. Okay.

>> There's Landmark, NA, them, and one

other one that are the big three.

>> There's the list we use.

>> Thank you very much.

>> Sure. Thank you. Appreciate it.

>> Okay. Thank you so much. Any last minute

questions?

>> Okay, thank you. Um let's go ahead and

um add resolution 64 in 2025 to the next

legislative session. And that concludes

the business of this committee today.

Thank you.

>> Great. Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> Our final committee business this

evening lies with the public works

committee. I will defer to our public

works committee chair, Councilman

Rodriguez, to lead discussion.

>> Thank you, Madam President. Uh,

beginning public works committee

business. We will read resolution 53 of

2025 and also we will be discussing

resolution 61 of 2025. Mr. Trudale, can

you please read resolution 53 of 2025

into the record?

>> Resolution 53 2025, a resolution

approving the disposal of certain

personal property owned by the city of

Harrisburg which have exhausted their

useful life for city operations.

>> Thank you. and uh I see our city's

engineer if you wouldn't mind speaking

into the mic, introducing yourself, your

role with the city, and a quick overhaul

of resolution 53 of 25.

>> Sure. My name is Joel Sers. I'm the city

engineer for Harrisburg.

The equipment list that we uh provided

with this resolution are believe 16

traffic controllers

that are um really no no longer of use

to the city.

And so what a traffic controller is,

it's it sits inside our traffic cabinet

and it controls the

>> Could you speak directly into the mic?

I'm sorry.

>> Sorry.

>> Is that better?

>> Yes, sir.

>> So the the the traffic controllers

control the the signal timing and the

pedestrian timing of of the

intersection. These select few have been

damaged in the field, replaced

um and have just been sitting in our

shop for for a while. We did have them

repaired as backups, but even after the

repair, they're still unreliable and

we're at the point now we're just asking

to be allowed to get rid of them to make

uh room for more reliable equipment.

>> All right, seems pretty straightforward.

What would you say the value is? Um the

value is per traffic controller.

>> So the they have a rough nominal value

of about $2,000 a piece. We can buy new

controllers for 2500 a piece.

>> Wow.

>> Wow. Okay.

>> And um is that all we're looking forward

to doing once we uh sell them off and

gain the revenue? We're just looking to

buy brand new traffic controllers or

would that go to anything else?

>> It would be to hopefully purchase other

traffic controllers. There's a constant

need for them throughout the city.

>> Absolutely. All right. Thank you for

that. And I have no further questions.

I'll open it up to my colleagues on

council. Starting with the far right.

Councilwoman Daniels.

>> No questions. Thank you.

>> All right. Councilwoman Davis.

>> Good evening, Mr. Siders. Thank you,

Councilwoman Rodriguez. I don't have any

questions.

>> Madam Vice President,

>> thank you very much. I don't have any

questions.

>> Madam President,

>> no questions. Thank you.

>> Councilwoman Ross.

>> Good evening, Mr. Ciders. I don't have

any questions. Thank you. Council member

Rodriguez.

>> Councilman Jones.

>> No questions.

>> Thank you. And I have no questions. So I

move to add resolution 53 of 2025 onto

our next uh legislative um session. And

uh with that, Mr. Trudale, can you

please read resolution 61 of 2025 into

the record, please? Resolution 612025,

a resolution ratifying a professional

services agreement with Wallace

Montgomery and Associates LLP for the

purpose of providing engineering and

design services for multimodal

improvements along Walnut Street.

>> Awesome. Thank you for that. And I see u

Mr. Siders is still with us and um whom

else will be joining us.

>> Uh good evening, Councilman Rodriguez.

>> Can you speak a bit closer to my

property?

>> Good evening, Councilman Rodriguez. My

name is Wayne Martin. I am with uh the

engineering firm of Wallace Montgomery.

>> Good to see you, Wayne. Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> All right. Um if either of you gentlemen

would like to give a quick overhaul of

resolution 61 of 2025.

>> Sure. So, just to refresh council's uh

memory on what what this project is,

it's the

safety improvements and multimodal

improvements on the Walnut Street

corridor from Front Street to Fourth

Street. And we had put this out for um

proposal earlier this year. We received

three proposals. The original uh firm

that had the high high score on the

proposal that we selected, Kimley Horn,

uh we presented in front of council and

was approved to go forward with them.

after uh we executed the contract, they

they came back and said there uh was

some wording in the contract that their

insurance company wouldn't kind of allow

uh we couldn't come to an agreement and

they respectively withdrew their their

proposal from consideration. Uh so then

luckily we had a a very close number two

that we could fall back on which is

Wallace Montgomery. We already have a a

contract with Wallace Montgomery for our

open end services and uh I can't say

enough about them. We're um just

thrilled to to have them on board. And

the reason it would be a ratification

rather than resolution was that uh this

occurred during council's break over the

summer and to kind of keep the project

on schedule, we went ahead and executed

the agreement with Wallace Montgomery

and are now asking for ratification.

>> Right. It's understandable. Um I guess

my question would be for legal. Do we

have any idea what that language was

that made the previous um contract back

out?

Just for clarification.

>> Yeah, it had to do with indemnification

insurance provisions which the biggest

issue was they waited until after

council had approved it after it was

executed and then wanted to change it

even though it was a public bidding sort

of process in the first place. You know,

we will work with people on the front

end. We don't let them come in on the

back end and say there's additional

terms they want to add. Y

>> and we basically said if you want to do

that you can go elsewhere and they went

elsewhere.

>> Absolutely. All right. All right. Um

well thank you both. Um Mr. Martin, is

there anything you wanted to add?

>> Um just just how happy we are to

continue building this relationship with

the city. Our firm was a lead firm on

you know Second Street, Seventh Street.

We are a sub consultant on Moulder

Square. Um, we just finished um the

design of the capital gateway, the

Forester Street. I shouldn't say just

finished, the construction just

finished. We finished the design a year

ago. Um, but that that'd be the most

recent, you know, major project in the

city where we're working on her street

now. There's a a public public meeting

at the Bethesda Mission on um on

Saturday 10 10 to 12. So, um, if anyone

want to join me there and and Joel, uh,

Saturday morning at the Bethesda Mission

on 15th and her. So, you know, we we we

know the city. We've been working in the

city for going on 12 years now on some

major projects and uh, this one in in

addition will be a, you know, a pretty

pretty major um, project in the city. Um

the highlight would be a raised

intersection at the intersection of um

second and walnut um along with the

improvements Joel had mentioned but also

um resurfacing of those badly needed um

you know corridor. So with that that's

all I had. Thank you.

>> Thank you. Um

Mr. Sowski, is there any way you can

turn your ringer off, please? You can't.

Okay. All right.

Um then I then I ask if yeah if you

don't mind being excused. Thank you. All

right. Um so I have no further questions

for you guys, but thank you guys for

both for joining us and I'll open it up

to council. Starting to my immediate

left. Councilman Jones.

>> Thank you. Council Rodriguez,

excuse me. Oh man. Um only question I

have uh is regarding um

a proposed cost or estimated cost or do

we know the number? Is this the exact

number

>> for the

>> the two the 276

>> it it' actually believe it was

>> 276,5

it would actually be the the the the

number right below 3 303,000 for design

services with the additional survey

included.

>> Hold on.

>> Not to ex I don't Yeah, I go straight to

the exhibit from here.

Yeah.

And were you Is this in the exhibit? The

number that you're referring to.

>> It's It's in there proposal. It should

have been attached to the resolution.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So, I'm just looking at the number

in the resolution itself. If you go

back, go back. Go back. Go back. I see.

>> Yep. Right here. Right there.

Yeah,

>> you can see it.

>> 200. Yep.

>> Because I know I mean again I'm just

asking because I know um with Kimberly

and you know there was a number there

and and you said you were pretty close.

>> Yeah. So I think Kimley Horn was like

282 or so they're they're in the

ballpark. So just a for point of

information um solicitor Grover would

that

>> that's my office error not putting in

>> would that require an amendment?

>> No because the attachment is there okay

and it's incorporated into the document.

So both are one in the same document

when you get here but it's on section

six subsection 7 page 25. There's an

additional add-on to that number for an

ad alternate survey which of which

brings it up to 303509.

And is that is that something council

received or that has

>> Yeah, that's in the exhibit you have.

Okay. It's right there. It's just we we

frankly when we did it, we plugged the

first number in and didn't go back and

plug it.

>> Okay.

>> But but it but it is allocated already.

>> Yeah. We just ratified it.

>> Yeah. So you No, but I'm saying but the

money has already been allocated to do

it. Got

>> so it's not we're asking for additional

money for the budget.

>> Understood.

>> Okay. No, I was just looking at the

difference.

>> I got you. That's our fault. I

apologize.

>> All right. Um, other than that, no

questions and thank you for your

continued service working with the city.

>> Yeah, thank thank you very much. I a

little further clarification. So, the

additional survey would be to capture

any information. So, if there was a

scope change, so maybe we're doing a

little bit more paving, so we'd have to

capture some additional survey points or

if anything changed because this had

previously been surveyed in 2020.

2020 had been surveyed. So if there was

any changes out there, we would get new

surveyor. So that's that additional. We

didn't we weren't sure. We're still

working with uh the engineer to

determine whether we need to come back

out and do any additional survey. And

then that price is a not to exceed. We

bill our hourly rate. This is what we

anticipate spending, but it's also a not

to exceed. So we'll only bill for the

work we do. Um

>> Yeah. I remember I think we got into an

agreement with you with with your

company firm like that already. Right.

>> Right. Yes.

>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for your

continued service.

>> Thank you.

>> Absolutely.

>> Yes, sir. All right. Thank you, uh,

Councilman Jones, Councilwoman Ross.

>> Uh, good evening. Welcome back, uh, Mr.

Martin. But, uh, oh, thank you both for

being here tonight. I don't have any

questions.

>> All right. Thank you, Madam President.

>> I don't have any questions. Nice to see

you, Mr. Martin.

>> Same here. Thank you.

>> Thanks.

>> Thank you, Madam Vice President.

>> I don't have any questions. Great to see

you. Welcome back. You're always welcome

back.

That's all I have. Thank you.

>> Thank you, Councilwoman Davis.

>> Good evening, Mr. Martin. Welcome back

and nice to see you this evening.

>> Good evening. Thank you.

>> No questions, though. Thank you.

>> All right. Thank you. And Councilwoman

Daniels?

>> No questions. Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> All right. Um, do either of you

gentlemen have anything to add?

>> Um, no. I will I will let um we do have

both a MBE uh firm and a WB firm on our

team. So, 15 and 19% Awesome.

Effectively, sir,

>> thank you for that information. That's

something council uh really, you know,

looks for and advocates for. So, thank

you for that, Mr. Martin.

>> Thank you.

>> All right. And with that being said, I'd

like to move to head resolution 61 of

2025 to our next legislative session.

And that concludes the work for the

public works committee. Thank you.

>> Thank you.

We will move forward with our meeting

agenda. Next, we have public comment. Um

just a few housekeeping notes before we

begin. Please state your name and your

address for the meeting record. If you

don't feel comfortable sharing your

address, please share the vicinity in

which you live within the city. You will

have four minutes as the timer notes to

share your comments. Um, I'll begin to

my right. Is there anyone that would

like to offer public comment? Okay,

seeing hearing no one. Anyone in the

middle section?

>> Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Libby Profit

and I reside at 2025 Chestnut Street. Um

I just want to thank you guys for

showing up for sure because uh there's

so much work that needs to get done and

um the fact that you're showing up and

you're facing you're in the battle. I'm

definitely glad to be on your team

whether on this side or that side.

There's a few things that I saw about

Harrisburg and one is um how we can move

forward.

Realistically, we should look at what

are our goals. I'm thinking

are we meeting the basic needs

like utilities, food, shelter, and

social?

When I say social, I mean like dominoes

and cars and chat, chess, stuff like

that. Because if our children don't have

the resources to do positive things,

they will end up doing negative things.

So if we're not providing those medium

to them, then we really shouldn't be

complaining.

Um,

and if that is our goal, then we're

we're really behind because as American,

we shouldn't be thinking about our food,

shelter,

or or these things. We should be past

that. So, let's look at are we make

meeting those needs, right? And I

understand we got law enforcement and

over time,

but we really need to look at where our

money is going.

Okay, that's all I wanted to say. Thank

you.

>> Thank you. Is there anyone to my left

that would like to offer public comment?

Seeing and hearing no one, the time is

6:41 p.m. I will entertain a motion to

adjurnn. Don't move.

>> Is there a second?

>> Second.

>> Thank you. We stand ajourned.